Parents Forum

jtee · 10-21-2007, 03:07 PM

SpitNCobra13, interesting comments. Do you feel the same way about college education? Do you see any positives in having a formal education vs self-taught?

Kaytee · 10-21-2007, 04:12 PM

It is interesting (what spit said)
I don' tknow if all you said is true though. Yes I think kids should leaarn what they want to learn, but at the same time they need to learn other things as well. I believe in teaching children about the government they live in, but if I wasn't "forced" to learn it when in school, I would have never even learned who the first president was. But that doesn't mean that it is not important to know

SpitNCobra13 · 10-21-2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaytee

It is interesting (what spit said)
I don' tknow if all you said is true though. Yes I think kids should leaarn what they want to learn, but at the same time they need to learn other things as well. I believe in teaching children about the government they live in, but if I wasn't "forced" to learn it when in school, I would have never even learned who the first president was. But that doesn't mean that it is not important to know

My philosophy is that people were designed to be able to self-motivate, and learn what is useful to them. While there are some basics, everyone is different too. I think that people don't need to be forced to learn anything, ever, because they will do it themselves when they feel appropriate.

Jtee, I don't believe in a lot of what I am taught here, and I am actually taking this semester off to work and pay off some bills, and re evaluate my career aims. That is why I am doing the realtor stuff right now. Someday I want to have kids, and I really want to be the one to stay home, and homeschool them. Real estate is good, because it is fun and pays well, and the hours are more flexible. I used to want to be a career pilot, but I ultimately decided that would be way to detrimental to family life.

Kaytee · 10-22-2007, 07:23 AM

What will you do if your 8 year old doe snot want to learn to read? Would yo be more apt to "make" them

AmyL · 10-22-2007, 12:47 PM

When I was a public school teacher, I thought the same thing: that it'd be better to keep them in schools for the elementary years then pull them later. Now that I've had time to evaluate that more personally, I see it the other way around. The elementary years are when the foundation skills are being taught. Is it better for my boys to learn in a group of 20 (or more!) children, or in a group of one or two? We don't move on to other skills according to a fixed curricular calendar at home school. We keep working on things in as many different ways are needed until a skill is learned.

I've heard the whole character development/lack of interaction thing too many times to count. Honestly, if you look at the values kids learn by going to school, do you really think they're better than what you're teaching at home? And by 'school', I mean the whole school experience....riding the bus, bullies between classes, etc. Teachers often teach lessons that I agree with when it comes to values and morals, etc. But they often do things I strongly disagree with. Why confuse my children that way? Why subject them to split loyalties? That doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not bashing public schools. If I hadn't have had twins, I'd have taught for many more years...I loved my job. I'm not saying that homeschooling is the one and only answer for all families. There is no such monster.

I am saying that to make a generic statement that homeschooling is a bad choice for all is wrong. And a tad judgmental.

Homeschooling started gaining ground in the US about 30 years ago, and really took off after that. We now have a generation of adults who've been home schooled and are living to tell about it. It's very interesting to look at graduation rates, career choices and stability, test scores, social successes/failures, and more statistics for these young people.

While home schooling isn't perfect (heck, it's totally different from family to family), it is a viable option for great success. Each family needs to make that decision based on what works for them.

If it's all right to mention here, I wrote a 5-part series on how to get started homeschooling on my blog that may be helpful. In the first installment I list a lot of web sites that give a lot of information about the subject.

Kaytee · 10-22-2007, 12:59 PM

I agree that homeschool the early years is probably the best thing to do, if yo plan to at all.
I really do not think I could give my child the education she deserves. Instead to me, she goes to shcool then we will learn things at home that she wants to learn, also things she does not lol

AmyL · 10-22-2007, 01:03 PM

Oh, just read what Spit had to say. What he's talking about is called unschooling, and it's getting to be quite popular. I personally disagree with it and follow something called the Trivium, or sometimes Classical Education.

The interesting thing about unschooling is that it ascribes to an educational theory called Constructivism, which states that children should dictate the path of learning and that the teacher should be more of a coach than a leader. I think the catch phrase was "a guide on the side, not a sage on the stage". Constructivism has been implemented more and more in the public schools over the last century, with plummeting test scores as a result. That's what's interesting. The very system that the unschoolers dislike has proven that the techniques can fail miserably.

Notice I said CAN fail. Because I do believe that unschooling does work for specific families. It would not work in mine, both because of my personality and the learning styles/needs of my children. I've heard from a few kids that were unschooled very successfully, and who went on to have fantastic adult lives. I do believe, though, that the adults in their lives did make sure on some level to 'cover' all the necessary subjects in their learning lifetime. Even in unschooling, some structure is necessary.

What I object to is the notion that because I use a systematic approach that I am somehow harming my children. There's actually a word been coined called "menticide" by folks who write books and web sites about unschooling. I find that very offensive, and I wish that people who unschool would be more careful about what they say.

Spit's point about the time needed for public schooling vs the time actually needed to learn something is very valid. I teach both kindergarten and 4th grade in less than 4 hours each day, and that's with breaks and extra discussions, projects, and so on. The boys are free to pursue what ever interests they have once their obligations are met. Today they designed a dart board using the compass that I taught them to use in math class, and made their own darts from paper and paper clips.

I had to laugh when they hung a piece of bread on the cork board to catch the 'darts' when they kept bouncing off. Then circles were drawn on the bread, and finally they figured out to put the bread behind the paper. I didn't say a word about it, and they did a ton of critical thinking and problem solving. Plus had a ball at the same time. The cost of this activity? A wasted piece of bread and a few crumbs on the floor. Value of the activity? Priceless.

Kaytee · 10-22-2007, 01:15 PM

Oh I can totally see why home school can teach the same things quicker. You only hav eto go as fast as your child, or as slow as your child. IWth the public school (or private even) you can only go as fast as the slowest or risk the slowest failing. Its geared to try to educate all the children not a specific child.

I don't think home school is hurtful for a child, I think there are precautions that one has to make before making a comitment to do it though. Not big things just different. You ahve to make sure you are committed to teaching them, you have to be prepared to deal with them when they struggles and figure out a way to get the to understand (goes for both really), Things like that. Not harder in that sense.

I do think it would be harder to teach a child at home fo rme, but others strive and do very well

SpitNCobra13 · 10-22-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmyL

Oh, just read what Spit had to say. What he's talking about is called unschooling, and it's getting to be quite popular. I personally disagree with it and follow something called the Trivium, or sometimes Classical Education.

The interesting thing about unschooling is that it ascribes to an educational theory called Constructivism, which states that children should dictate the path of learning and that the teacher should be more of a coach than a leader. I think the catch phrase was "a guide on the side, not a sage on the stage". Constructivism has been implemented more and more in the public schools over the last century, with plummeting test scores as a result. That's what's interesting. The very system that the unschoolers dislike has proven that the techniques can fail miserably.

Notice I said CAN fail. Because I do believe that unschooling does work for specific families. It would not work in mine, both because of my personality and the learning styles/needs of my children. I've heard from a few kids that were unschooled very successfully, and who went on to have fantastic adult lives. I do believe, though, that the adults in their lives did make sure on some level to 'cover' all the necessary subjects in their learning lifetime. Even in unschooling, some structure is necessary.

What I object to is the notion that because I use a systematic approach that I am somehow harming my children. There's actually a word been coined called "menticide" by folks who write books and web sites about unschooling. I find that very offensive, and I wish that people who unschool would be more careful about what they say.

Spit's point about the time needed for public schooling vs the time actually needed to learn something is very valid. I teach both kindergarten and 4th grade in less than 4 hours each day, and that's with breaks and extra discussions, projects, and so on. The boys are free to pursue what ever interests they have once their obligations are met. Today they designed a dart board using the compass that I taught them to use in math class, and made their own darts from paper and paper clips.

I had to laugh when they hung a piece of bread on the cork board to catch the 'darts' when they kept bouncing off. Then circles were drawn on the bread, and finally they figured out to put the bread behind the paper. I didn't say a word about it, and they did a ton of critical thinking and problem solving. Plus had a ball at the same time. The cost of this activity? A wasted piece of bread and a few crumbs on the floor. Value of the activity? Priceless.

I personally don't see how you could implement an unschooling learning style in a public school-that doesn't make any sense to me, and I can't see how it would succeed.

The reason I am so in favor of the system is because of my own personality. I grew up doing my best to ignore all the stuff in school, and spent time reading my own stuff. I consistently tested above the other kids, while receiving lower grades because I often refused to waste my time on their work. The thing is, I don't think im that different from most people. I was read to a lot as a child, and that motivated me to read, but I believe every child has their own way of learning, and that they all do want to learn, its just a matter of guiding them along in their natural development.

AmyL · 10-22-2007, 01:28 PM

Kaytee, it's totally your choice and your family's. I have more than one friend who I've silently HOPED would not home school. It's not for everyone.

There is a school of thought that children shouldn't be pushed to read, and that waiting until they're 9 or 10 to learn that skill is the right thing to do. I'm not so sure on that one, but I really don't know either. Again, it depends on that particular situation. I know some families who've pushed it at 5, some who've waited until 10. Each believes they're doing the right thing. The only way to know is wait and see what they turn out like as adults. Those stakes are pretty high, but really as parents we all face them in one way or another.

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