SageMother

Working in the school system I saw parents who pushed their kids so hard that I feared for the student's mental health.

A gifted high schooler wanted to cut back on the difficulties of courses and tried to sign up for just the basic requirements. The counsellor and the parents went to work on him, pushing the harder courses, using the "you'll get bored" arguments and the student ended up dropping out of school.

I think he did the right thing. No one was asked him why he felt he had to cut back, what his view of the world had become, or if something had happened that made the thought of going at the same pace he had so far, too difficult to bear. They were more concerned with their own views of the world.

If your high acheiving student suddenly decides to cut back on the intensity of his courses, will you be able to allow them the space they need? If you have been through something similar, how did you handle it?

jmeyer3131

I'd ask why, and then I'd let her do it. The reason for asking why is to make sure there's nothing going on in her life that I'm not aware of.

You pose a great question. My daughter has high abilities, but she's not crazy about learning. (I was that way myself until I hit my late twenties. Then I went to grad school and loved every minute of it.)

In her middle school there are some advanced courses and she is in them. However, as she approaches high school, there are a lot more of them. I've noticed that teachers in general want her to take them because she has the ability. For me, I'm more selective about what I suggest to her. She works hard to keep those A's, and if all her classes are advanced classes, the extra work will just stress her too much. She'll get the grades, but at a cost.

Here is our compromise: we passed on honors geometry and honors biology. Her interests are all creative (music, art, and writing) and I'd be shocked if one day she decided she wanted to go into the sciences. If she finds that she just loves these areas of study next year, she can always go into advance placement later.

She will be taking honors language arts and history, though. This is a combined curriculum. I hear the history teacher is great, which is important because so far she's had boring history teachers. I'm hoping this guy can make it come to life.

More importantly, this honors combination focusses on literature, writing, and analytical thinking. This is something I can see making a difference in anything she does in her life, so it's worth it.

Her passion is music. She sings and plays violin. There are two orchestras at her school, and she was told she should audition for the more selective of the two. This to me is like taking honors orchestra and will certainly require more practice time.

She plans to be a singer, so any performing she can do is important. Not taking honors science and math will hopefully give her more practice time and more time for opportunities to perform.

This is a long-winded way of saying that I try to look at the big picture. What will make a difference in her life and what won't? If she takes all honors classes and excels in them, sure, I can then boast about my bright daughter. So what? If it just adds stress and makes no difference in her life, there's no point to it.

I have one more thing to add. I have a nephew who took an I.Q. test because of a seizure disorder. They were just checking to be sure he's O.K. The test proved what we already knew, he is highly intelligent.

He is out of college now. He came to see me for help with his resume. While we were talking, he told me that his one regret in high school was that he took a lot of advanced classes just to prove he could do it. He said it added a lot of stress, but didn't make any difference in his career path.

Thanks for a great thread.

__________________
Janet
www.CanIChangeALife.blogspot.com

Teresa

I know from my own experience as a student what it feels like to be pushed to be the best at everything, and I made a decision a long time ago that I would not do that to a child of mine. All three of mine are following their own paths: Brian was in AP classes all through HS, and had fabulous grades in all of them, and in all of his classes. Adrienne is plodding her way through the basic requirements, doing well in the ones she enjoys, squeaking by in those she finds "boring". Amy is in junior high and already fast tracking in math, but taking basic requirements in all other courses. They all three have the same potential, according to their achievement and IQ tests, so in theory they should all be taking AP classes across the board......but what's the point if it's going to be an uphill battle that I'd be fighting with them daily?

__________________

Wife to Barry
Mother to Brian,Adrienne and Amy
Christianity is not a religion like most people think. Christianity is a life of imitating Jesus.

happy2bg33k

It's interesting that you bring this up, my husband and I were just talking about this in terms of our daughter. She has extraordinary abilities and is very bright but not highly intrinsically motivated. Despite this she's still an A and B student. I was expressing to my husband that I feel badly about it but I'm somewhat disappointed because if she really worked a little bit she could be all A's. I know it's not that important and would never say anything to her about it...but both my husband and I thought that when she is a little bit older it may be worth explaining our concerns to her as when she goes to college she will have to be looking at scholarships.

But in the end I just want her to be happy and have satisfying relationships with other people. If there's one thing I've learned in my own life it's that it's more important to be happy than anything else.

tater03

I to as a parent struggle with this problem. I have a son that is extremly good in school. He is currantly in second grade. What I have done is basically follow his lead. He seems to enjoy learning and loves to learn new things. If he were ever to become stressed about school and the work I would step in in a heartbeat. The only thing I can do right now is follow his cues and see how it all goes.

jmeyer3131

I'm somewhat disappointed because if she really worked a little bit she could be all A's. I know it's not that important and would never say anything to her about it

Good for you, Happy, to be able to express here how you feel but not to push it on your kids.

As far as getting into good schools later, I think they base an awful lot on SATs and ACTs. I've seen smart kids with poor grades get into the schools they wanted based on good test scores. If your daughter is getting As and Bs, I would think she'll be able to get into most colleges, just not the elite ones...and even with all A's, who knows if she'd make it into those.

A lot of colleges look for kids who are well-rounded. They don't necessarily prefer kids who get nothing but A's because it can look like they've done nothing but study.

But I know how you feel. My daughter just turned in her preferences for next year. The science teacher and math teacher were disappointed that she's not taking honors courses in those areas. I'd love to say she was in honors for everything, but like you, I don't tell her that. I really don't think that in the end it will impact her life at all. She's in the honors classes that make sense, and that's all that matters.

__________________
Janet
www.CanIChangeALife.blogspot.com

mamab

Except for getting into college, no one really cares what your gpa in high school is or what you made on the ACT or SAT. I've never had anyone except the colleges I sent applications to or the military ask.

I think the important thing for children to do is their best. If that happens to be a C in a certain subject, so be it. My parents always wanted us to do our best, but they wanted to know that a C was the best we could do. If it was, they didn't stress over it. They never pushed us to make straight A's.

I homeschool, so I'm the one doing any pushing to get my child to do their best. They don't have to worry about being pushed into what someone else thinks he should be.

happy2bg33k

Thank you for that Janet. I try very hard to not place my expectations on my children and let them develop into themselves. I know in the end she will become a good person, but don't we always want our children to have it easier than we do? The eternal parent dilemma...

jmeyer3131

Yes, deep in our hearts we want to have nothing but good things for our kids. Yet it's in the struggles that we grow.

I say that, and I mean that, but anytime something hurts my kid I'm miserable that she's in pain.

Sometimes the struggle is to know what things build character or have other meanings for their future and what things don't.

__________________
Janet
www.CanIChangeALife.blogspot.com

newdad06

I wish I had the studies readily accessible, I suppose I could do some digging and find them, but I can recall the basic ideas of them.

The first was on student expectations. A survey was given to students in college and students that didn't go to college. A huge majority of the students that went on to college reported that their parents always had the expectation that they would continue their education. While the majority of students that stopped at high school reported that their parents didn't place any importance on continuing education.

The second study was based on praising children and what we ought to praise. A population of elementary students were divided into two groups and given an "IQ" test that was extrememely easy for their skill level. When the students completed the test they were given a verbal praise. One group was told they did a good job on the test so they must be really smart. The other group was told they did a good job on the test so they must have worked really hard. They were then given another test that was beyond their ability. The group of students that were told they were smart, gave up quickly on the test and reported later that they hated this particular test. The group that told they worked hard, stayed with the test much longer and reported that it was their favorite. A third test was then give, again one that was easy for their abiliity. The group that was told they were smart tested at a lower level than the group that told they worked hard.

There was much more involved in the study than just this, but I think this helps demonstrate the conclusion. The researcher found that an emphasis on intelligence had negative effects on a student. Whenever they found a challenge to their ability they tended to give up or avoid the challenge, because their value as person was placed on their intelligence, which is something they can't control. While on the other side, the students that were praised for their hard work, met challenges with zeal, because they were able to increase their sense of worth by working harder. Their value was based on something they could control, their ability to work harder.

A third statistic, that I want to throw in is that college graduates wind up making about 16 grand a year more than a high school graduate. The difference between owning a car and having the ability to take a vacation each year. I think we all want our children to have that option.

So, I would conclude that we want our children to go on to college. And in order for them to get they need to know that we expect that of them. But, we need to change how we convey that expectation. If we focus on praising hard work and dedication our children are going to be more likely to set the challenge of an ap course for themselves. I agree we shouldn't push our kids into these courses if they don't want them, especially if the challenges that the courses make are going to reduce their sense of self worth. But, if we can create a sense of worth by saying to our kids that we love the effort they put into every thing they do they will come to enjoy challenges and seek these classes on our own. Our emphasis should never be on how much money they make or how smart they are.

__________________
http:growingupwiththekids.blogspot.com
Step Family Talk