Parents Forum

musicmom · 03-16-2008, 04:47 PM

Just from the first hand parents information I have recieved I honestly believe autism comes from vaccines. I wish they would look into it more.

Ari2 · 03-16-2008, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaytee

well I still disagree that parent should not know about their childs health. You seem to thin kits ok to follow advise blindly. Parents need to know that docs are not perfect. They make mistakes just as often as any one else. BUt so be it! lol

you are right it is VERY hard to come by non biased opinions. But you can. A parents should know the basic ingredients of vaccines. They should be given the package insert. At the very least. You can't force feed info.. but the parents SHOULD want to know.
Parents should know that their are adverse reactions to vaccines (not just a low grade fever) they should know what a disease truly does to the body.

How many parents heard of rotovirus for example? NO ONE (well not no one but you get it) 98% of ALL children will have it at least once before the age of 5, YET now its a deadly disease that we must vaccinate for!!! How deadly is it? umm.... in the US? not very. Sure some children are going to get sick, but statistically more children are being hurt by the vaccine on this one.
Chicken pox? OMG seriously! VERY few people will become seriously ill from the disease, sure some will... but not very many,

I am not an anti vaxer... I vax my dd, I just vax her for things I feel are a real threat to her and that the risks of the vaccine are less then the risk of the disease. If parents have a general knowledge of vaccines and still feel it is best to vaccinate them.. then by all means do it. THOSE parents are doing their job by KNOWING what they are doing.

Kaytee, I think you raise some great questions and I doubt we are that far apart in our thinking. I just believe that the idea that parents should be educated about vaxes is much more complicated than it may seem.

Let's take a specific example. At random I picked ProQuad, the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vax from Merck. Like all vaxes, its insert info is on file with the FDA and searchable with Google.

The ProQuad label says this about ingredients:

Each 0.5-mL dose of the vaccine nominally contains 20 mg of sucrose, 11 mg of hydrolyzed gelatin, 2.5 mg of urea, 2.3 mg of sodium chloride, 16 mg of sorbitol, 0.38 mg of monosodium L-glutamate, 1.4 mg of sodium phosphate, 0.25 mg of human albumin, 0.13 mg of sodium bicarbonate, 94 mcg of potassium phosphate, 58 mcg of potassium chloride; residual components of MRC-5 cells including DNA and protein; 5 mcg of neomycin, bovine serum albumin (0.5 mcg) and other buffer and media ingredients. The product contains no preservative.

So a parent gets this info, what is the next step? For me it would be to understand the ingredients, their safety profile (how much is too much?) and their effect (positive or negative, and duration) on the body. Without this, all you have is a bunch of words. How many people can make sense of this? Also, you mention statistics Do you hold parents responsible for knowing stats on VPDs and vax safety and efficacy?

Just starting to look at vaxes and VPDs opens a giant, extraordinarily complicated can of worms that is way too much for most people. To evaluate vaxes and VPDs critically takes a ton of background knowledge that most people don't possess and don't want or can't acquire. I don't blame parents who rely on their peds.

I'm not anti-vax or pro-vax. I had a great conversation with our ped about not following the recommendation to get my kids a Hep A vax (she enthusiastically agreed not to give the vax). And to me it is clear that both sides use raw fear of harming their children to convince people. But I think it is an extremely complicated topic that too readily gets reduced down to meaningless simplicity.

Kaytee · 03-16-2008, 05:58 PM

you are right on that, it is a fear thing on both sides. Take our vax or your kid will die, to take the vax and you will kill your child. That is wrong as well. One sided on anything is wrong.
I don't think a parent has to know about everything in order to make an informed decision. They need to know that some of the diseases that are so "deadly" are not, they are just an illness that sure its not fun and I would hope my child doesn't have to go through it, BUT its not that bad either.
If all Peds were honest and educated their clients (just some, not their job to do it all)it is then the parents responsibility to educated themselves.
It goes for much more then vaxes. Look at breastfeeding, 90% of peds (not accurate percentile but...) will tell a patient that sure breastfeeding is best, but formula is fine as well. "oh your child has only grown 10 oz and we want at least a pound, you should switch to formula" or "jaundice babies need formula, so stop nursing for 3 days and give baby formula, then go back" Horrid info from a person who should know better. Other subjects as well, but...

Ari2 · 03-16-2008, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicmom

Just from the first hand parents information I have recieved I honestly believe autism comes from vaccines. I wish they would look into it more.

There's a lot of research on this that has been conducted and is still going on, so folks are continuing to look into it.

It also will be interesting to read the conclusions of the Omnibus Autism Proceeding, which is the group of related cases in the US Court of Federal Claims. In these cases, the petitioners claim vaxes caused autism, and the Special Master (sounds a little S&M, but it is the title of the person assigned to handle pretrial evidentiary stuff) must reach a conclusion about whether thimerosal-containing vaxes caused autism. It is still ongoing, and the docket with links to all the available documents can be reached here.

musicmom · 03-16-2008, 07:48 PM

Great thanks Ari.

Kaytee, I have to say I think it depends on the pediatrician as well. I had jaundice twins and they never said skip my breast milk. I also had a child who was underweight and they never said that to be either. I'm not sure if you were just using them as a random example but my pediatrician never said that to me. They were for whichever I chose was best for my child.

Kaytee · 03-16-2008, 08:36 PM

they were randoms. But thats good that you had a pediatrician that was informed. If y ou ever watch Baby Story and Bring home baby, you will hear these things ALL the time. It would make me so mad but I still watched lol

gr8mom · 03-16-2008, 10:35 PM

There's no way I can read all of these posts so I hope I'm not repeating something someone else has said. I talked to a nurse the other day who wondered why I haven't vacinated my daughters and she said polio was coming back due to people not getting their children vaxinated. Is this true?

Also, it's just an observation but; you can start out with any viewpoint, opinion or thought about any given thing and research it and find plenty of other people who agree and even studies that "prove" that point.

Ari2 · 03-17-2008, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr8mom

There's no way I can read all of these posts so I hope I'm not repeating something someone else has said. I talked to a nurse the other day who wondered why I haven't vacinated my daughters and she said polio was coming back due to people not getting their children vaxinated. Is this true?

The World Health Organization hoped to eradicated polio around the world several years ago. But there has been an increase in polio incidence in recent years in India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Angola, Namibia, and the Congo. Some of these cases are due to people refusing the vax. The fear is that polio will go from being almost exterminated (humans are the only hosts to the polio virus) to once again spreading to countries that have previously been declared polio-free, such as the US.

The other problem for the US with polio in other countries is the use of the live virus vax. Countries like India rely on a vax that contains live, weakened virus as it provides wider coverage and more complete immunity. India had hoped to have so few cases that it could switch to the killed vax, but with its continuing problems it has been forced to continue to use the live vax. Unfortunately, it is possible that an unvax'd person in contact with someone who just got the live vax can contract polio. So the fear in the US is that with more polio cases and continuing eradication efforts with the live vax unvaccinated people in this country will contract polio. If this live vax virus is allowed to circulate in the population it could become as dangerous as the original virus and start an outbreak among unvaccinated people.

This isn't a completely paranoid fear. There was a group of polio cases in unvaccinated people in Minnesota several years ago. They think the first case was due to an unvaccinated child coming into contact with a person from another country who received the live vax.

Kaytee · 03-17-2008, 08:10 AM

Quote:

(Archives of Pediatrics, September/October 1950,
Poisoning as the cause of poliomyelitis by Ralph R. Scobey, M.D.)

There are 72 knows causes of Polio. BUT only TWO virus that can cause Polio. The virus is the least damaging and we have never been endangered by it. 95% of contact is without symptoms.

Chemical poisoning? Before the vaccine (1955) we sprayed DDT and Copper Arsenate Sprays indiscriminately on all picnic areas, play grounds, stalls, school yards, etc.
There was little concern about chemical pollution and the factories dumped all their residue into our lakes and rivers. That is why the polio epidemic in the US, was mostly in upstate NY where we had huge chemical factories.

Not only people had polio but so did animals -
Quote:
Since the last war there have been a number of curious changes in the incidence of certain ailments and the development of new syndromes never before observed. A most significant feature of this situation is that both man and all his domestic animals have simultaneously been affected. (Mortin S. Biskin)
It was even known by 1945 that DDT is stored in the body fat of mammals and appears in the milk. Consequently, studies actually proved MILK was the cause of Polio.

The polio epidemic in upstate NY did not spread. It came suddenly, lasted for about 7 weeks, and disappeared just as quickly. Why? The cause of the paralysis was pesticides.

FDR's type of polio was NOT caused be a polio virus but was due to polluted water in the lake where he went swimming. This is now almost indisputable because people of his age were immune to the polio virus.

Back then people in the area pretty much knew what had caused the "polio epidemic". If you ask the people who lived through it, they will tell you that kids were discouraged from swimming anywhere. They will tell you about the spray and the paralyzed farm animals.

At the very same time the polio vaccine was introduced, DDT was banned.

That was NOT coincidental.
The purpose was to justify the vaccine. Just like all vaccines, the polio vaccine was (and is) very political.

Unfortunately the OPV (oral polio vaccine) which contained the actual "live virus" caused polio on a large scale for the first time in U.S. history. (Research: 'Cutter Incidence'.)

The OPV vaccine was banned in several U.S. states and in all of the UK which had already bought a large supply. The rest of Europe had refused to endorse the vaccine for it’s citizens and had not bought it. Interestingly polio fell at the same rate in Europe as it did in the U.S. although not a single child was vaccinated. DDT was banned there as well. (The OPV vaccine was forced on them after WWII and consequently they had a (viral) polio epidemic.)

In order for people not to lose faith in the new vaccine, other measures had to be taken in the U.S.

1. The amount of vaccines required had to be changed -

Any child vaccinated one time with the OPV that came down with polio was considered "unvaccinated" and counted as a polio victim. But that still left (chemical, OPV) polio victims in iron lungs.

2. The disease was renamed -

All types of paralysis were from then on separated into Guillain-Barre Syndrome, Meningitis Aseptic, Transverse Myelitis, Acute Fatigue Syndrome, Flaccid Paralysis and several others....the numbers of these diseases went up considerably.

3. The way the disease was diagnosed had to be changed -

Retroactively, paralysis seen before the vaccine was counted and re-named "polio". Even a 12 hr. stiff neck was suddenly called polio. No lab test was needed. No residual affect was necessary. Flaccid Paralysis from all causes, including that of Coxsackie viruses, echo viruses, and a whole host of other "causes" were renamed POLIO.

4. Lab work was made mandatory plus duration of the paralysis had to last up to 60 days now -

Before the vaccine, any paralysis, even one lasting a few hours was counted as "polio".

These measures brought the pre-vaccine polio cases up and post-vaccine cases down.

All credit was given to the Polio Vaccine.

It is indeed a long and sordid story!

There is a record of one US state stating: the vaccine worked so well, we didn't give it to one single child in our state and yet saw no more polio.

"Polio" paralysis due to chemicals spray had been well documented. DDT pesticides were used in Italy in ca 1880 to spray against mosquitoes. Many children came down with (paralysis later on counted as) "polio" which had not been seen prior to the DDT spraying program.

Quote:
In 1945, against the advice of investigators who had studied the pharmacology of the compound and found it dangerous for all forms of life, DDT (chlorophenoethane, dichlorodiphenyl-trichloroethane) was released in the United States and other countries for general use by the public as an insecticide. (Mortin S. Biskin)
What about the modern polio vaccine?
The polio vaccine in use today, IPV (inactivated polio vaccine), can only prevent viral polio. No other type. Although it will not cause polio, we do not need it since we have never had an epidemic due to the polio virus.

After DDT was banned in the Western Hemisphere it was shipped off to Africa where it continues to damage children in large measures even to this day.

Before DDT, Polio in Africa was unknown. Clean water would be a better cure for the viral paralysis instead of the OPV which we know causes polio.

POLITICS:
Remember several years ago there was an interesting "epidemic" of "polio" in Cuba? It had the American CDC all excited and they saw a chance to humiliate Fidel Castro.

Unfortunately some epidemiologist with more brains than the CDC figured out that it was some pretty potent moonshine that the locals had made, which was causing a B deficiency provoking a toxic poisoning that mimicked polio.

Of course supplements of B vitamins, immediately stopped the "epidemic"...

Malnutrition = Severe Vitamin B deficiency can cause temporary or permanent paralysis which they call "polio" when needed. (How many kids in Africa suffer from malnutrition?)

We now have a disease called Kawasaki Disease which did not exist prior to the IPV. It is far worse than any polio virus ever was/is and is very likely caused by the modern Polio vaccine. But who is looking?

===========

There you have it. We don't worry about polio. No more than about chicken pox.

this was taken froom another source not my own

yulia · 03-17-2008, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr8mom

There's no way I can read all of these posts so I hope I'm not repeating something someone else has said. I talked to a nurse the other day who wondered why I haven't vacinated my daughters and she said polio was coming back due to people not getting their children vaxinated. Is this true?

Also, it's just an observation but; you can start out with any viewpoint, opinion or thought about any given thing and research it and find plenty of other people who agree and even studies that "prove" that point.

Honestly, reading all the posts is pretty useless. Even a person who knows the most about vaccines from all this forum, knows a 'drop' comparing to Mary Rocco. I'd highly recommend you watch the movie instead of listening to the nurse/doctors whose job is to BS you into vaccinating. The way my husband and I were BS-ed into vaccinating our first son, for example, is the doctor's lie that there were plenty of cases meningitus caused by HiB just an hour away. It scared the s*** out of my husband. Later on I saw the stats and there were just 7 cases of HiB acros the country in 2005 and none of them was where we were (not even close).

Mary Rocco (26 years of research on the subject!) presents an exceptional case regarding vaccination!
http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/Why-Vaccines-Aren-t-Safe-48866.aspx

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