fallon

So what about the kid who comes from a loving, gentle family with a strong support system, but gets his kicks out of skinning kittens?

Kaytee

I still think there is something environmentally that we are not hearing with kids like that. I don't know though, I want to know what happened so I can make sure it doesn't

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FooserX

I absolutely think there are good kids, bad kids, and evil kids.

I believe the dynamics that go into this are too much to really research and discuss on a thread (that’s a thesis!)…but it comes down to Lord of the Flies syndrome to me.

Kids are new to the world – no rules, no boundaries…they need parental guidance to teach them how to behave. Without guidance, it is anarchy. Have you seen kids play in a playground or at recess with no supervision? There are the nice kids, the troublemakers…and those select few that are evil. Heck, I just went to a kid’s birthday party, and this one 3 year old girl was chasing a puppy and kicking it! It was insane! The last party I went to, the boys tortured a frog to death. Lol.

Kids also mimic and can be easily manipulated. Just google the Sylvia Likens story. The mom of that house rallied her kids, and the neighborhood kids to torture, mutilate, and kill an innocent teenage girl. The kids liked it. They really had no outside forces telling them it was wrong. They were just too young to understand consequences. Some of the kids told the police that they didn’t understand they were killing this girl. Crazy.

So yes, I think there are kids of all types. Nature, nurture…I’m sure both are involved, but I would lean towards nurture. Kids can be bred to be anything.

fallon

me too, I just wish I could be sure that there is something else going on and not just something that snaps in their brains ya know

Tau

I agree that we need to change our relationships and behavior based on the history of the people we're involved with.

I just want to emphasize the point that we're talking about defining a WHOLE person based on specific choices that they have made. I just can't make that leap myself. Perhaps its as a result of my anthropology background, or from my own personal experiences, but I truly believe that people just are - and sometimes they make seriously horrible choices.

I know that everyone has a reason for what they do, and the vast majority of those reasons can be justified well within their own worldviews. The conflict arises when their worldview conflicts with ours or societies as a whole.

So in the case of your uncle - lets say he did something at one point. Keeping your children safe is important, changing the nature of your relationship is inevitable, but perhaps, evening knowing that he did something - you know that he is capable of both good and bad things, and knowing him as a whole individual, you cannot state that he is bad, or evil. Thats where I am coming from.

jtee

For the purpose of this discussion I was referring to Evil as in bad. If I were ever to refer to a specific kid as being evil, I would be doing so in jest.

My thoughts on this matter are parallel to Tau's previous messages\comments. I do not believe there are truly evil people, therefore there are not evil kids. People, and kids, do very very bad things, but they themselves are not inherent bad\evil as an individual.

FooserX

>>>I do not believe there are truly evil people, therefore there are not evil kids.

There are most definitely evil people. Maybe you just haven't met one yet...trust me, when you do...it is pretty scary.

jtee

A very fascinating documentary related to this topic is Ice man Interviews . Netflix has the DVD.


Richard Kuklinski killed 100s of people in his life as hired hit-man. While serving several life sentences Kuklinski agreed to be interviewed on video by a Dr. Park Dietz because Kuklinski wanted to understand why he could kill people and feel nothing, either good nor bad. He knew he was a killing machine like no other, but didn't understand why. He didn't try to rationalize his behavior or justify it. Kuklinski was a very devoted family man who cherished his family above everything else, they knew nothing about his killings

After many hour of interviewing Kuklinski Dr. Park Dietz told Kuklinski that he was born with the same innate traits found in people such a fire fighters, they can face danger with little or no fear, and do extraordinary things that very few people can do. However in Kuklinski's case, he was raised by extremely abusive parents who beat him nearly every day of his life as a child. The combination of his innate qualities born to him (fearlessness) and the extreme abusive childhood, turned his fearlessness of danger into a powerful destructive force allowing him to kill and torture people without feeling any kind of emotions. Kuklinski could torture a screaming person for hours and Kuklinski would feel no emotions.

My thinking is that nobody is born evil, and deep deep down they never are, but I do believe that innate qualities born to any child, can be channeled into being used for good or for bad. A very stubborn child can grow up to real jerk and ruthless business person, or hopefully grow up to be a very determined and successful person using their natural talents for betterment of others as well as themselves.

Tau

I have known someone who did truly damaging and horrible things - unforgivable things. I am still very angry at said person.

Still, as repugnant as the acts were, I cannot characterize him as evil, or bad.

jtee

Justified or not, it is my perception that Middle school (11-14) is when kids are the most cruel towards each other, and kids with bully personalities are more likely to abuse the weaker kids.

There is a 7th grade boy on our block who is endlessly taunted and insulted every day at school by both boys and girls. At home he has very outgoing personality, but he can't handle socializing with others outside of his home. Being at school is like hell for him. For whatever the reason, he is just one of those kids that other kids enjoy tormenting with as much cruelty that they have within themselves, and when 2-3 get together, they feed off each other. What concerns me is that someday a few years from now, he might be one of those kids who snaps, gets a gun, heads to school, and starts killing as many of his tormentors as he can before he kills himself, or gets shot by police.