Parents Forum

yulia · 04-08-2008, 07:32 AM

Fox News Reports on Infant Circumcision in America

The Cruelest Cut - LiveVideo.com

****graphic video*****

Facing Circumcision: Eight Physicians Tell Their Stories

NO graphic pictures! just interview with doctors

Lissa · 04-08-2008, 07:57 AM

http://www.parentingforums.org/f11/e...gasm-4914.html

Just came across this interesting link.

http://www.parentingforums.org/f30/t...mber-4377.html

http://www.parentingforums.org/f30/f...n-tv-4419.html

Kaytee · 04-08-2008, 08:32 AM

If you are just going to post links, keep them all together. If you want to discuss some thing particular start a new thread. htanks

Skyburning · 04-08-2008, 09:18 AM

While I'm glad that a popular news station did a piece on this, I'd appreciate a warning on that video. It contains video of circumcisions. & Don't give me that "you can't be in denial" crap, because my son isn't circumcised and I still don't want to watch that no matter how against it I am.

meow_173 · 04-08-2008, 09:20 AM

Wow, all i have to say is that there is no need to post that video. If you actually watched it, which i had to shut it off, it actually shows a baby being circ'ed.
I have only been here since january of this year, and thread after thread its about circumcision male or female. And Male, yes Yulia i understand you are strongly against it, i too am against it, its just not needed. but no matter how many posts and arguments you put up, its a parents choice, so why not just leave it at that?

Ari2 · 04-08-2008, 08:16 PM

Ditto what Meow and Sky said: There should be a warning in the title of the thread that it contains a graphic video. I also think there should be mention of circ in the title, especially if Yulia isn't looking for negative comments. This would allow people to decide whether they are interested, which may be more helpful to new members who are unaware of Yulia's advocacy. Without something like this, you are inviting negative replies.

These measures are commonly done in other forums, including those that have separate subforums for circ. They would allow people to tell whether they want to read the thread simply by looking at it.

Kaytee · 04-09-2008, 06:33 AM

I added graphic video to the post.

yulia · 04-11-2008, 11:17 AM

Genital integrity is a basic human right.

Over 80% of the world is intact.

This is an excellent movie (done by doctors opposing circumcision) about foreskin’s
purpose and harm of circumcision.
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/video/prepuce.html

Even a perfectly performed circumcision does life-long harm.

1. It removes the most sensitive parts of the penis (Ridged band and often it also removes Frenulum).

2. The glans (penile head) is normally an internal organ protected by the moist mucosal tissue of the prepuce (foreskin). Without the foreskin, the glans is exposed to the outer environment (air, soap, clothing, sun, etc.). The glans dries out and develops several extra layers of skin (keratinization). Besides removing the densely nerve-laden foreskin, circumcision removes 50% of the penile shaft skin and associated nerve endings. The exposed glans then keratinizes, causing further loss of sensation.
Imagine how different female sexual response would be if the clitoral hood (female foreskin) was removed. Exposure of the clitoris to the constant effects of the outer environment would approximate the effects of male circumcision.

Please take a look at a recent sensitivity study published in the BJU International (British Journal of Urology) in April 2007.
This study was the first time that the intact and circumcised penis were thoroughly, systematically and scientifically tested for sensitivity. The testing method was monofilament testing, the same method used in assessing peripheral neuropathy, such as lack of feeling in the feet of diabetics. The resulting measurements of sensitivity are quantifiable and reproducible. The study was submitted for peer review before being approved for publication.

The study's objective: to map the fine-touch pressure thresholds of the adult penis in circumcised and uncircumcised men, and to compare the two populations.

The conclusion, from the abstract: The glans of the circumcised penis is less sensitive to fine touch than the glans of the uncircumcised penis. The transitional region from the external to the internal prepuce is the most sensitive region of the uncircumcised penis and more sensitive than the most sensitive region of the circumcised penis. Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis.

Full text of the study (pdf), http://www.icgi.org/touch-test/touch-test-article.pdf
Graphs illustrating the comparison findingshttp://www.icgi.org/touch-test/

3. Moisturizing the glans is another important function of foreskin. Once removed, the skin of glans gets dry which most of the time leads to inability to have sex/masturbation without an artificial lubricant. On the other hand intact men do not need it at all. Foreskin slides up and down the shaft of the penis providing an easy and smooth penetration, lubrication and additional pleasure for both partners.

4. The pain during circumcision is truly agonizing.
Do you know how they circumcise newborns? First, because the foreskin is attached to the glans exactly like the fingernail is attached to the finger, they have to rip open those adhesions. They force a blunt probe under the foreskin and run it all around. Think about how that would feel under your fingernails and add on it that foreskin is the most sensitive part of the body. Then they slice open the foreskin and peel it away from the glans. Then they put a clamp on and crush the foreskin to halt the worst of the bleeding. Then they take a scalpel and slice the foreskin off. Oh, and by the way, did you know that over 85% of neonatal circumcisions in the US are still being preformed without any/adequate anesthesia?

If one wants to put their baby through this nightmare, they at least must have guts to see how the procedure is being done. As you can see on this video, the doctor claims that he uses anesthesia…well, make sure your speakers are on!

There has been actually a study that was stopped before being completed due to too much trauma to babies http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9712/23/circumcision.anesthetic/ .

MRI of the brain before and after circumcision shows irreversible damage: http://www.stopinfantcircumcision.org/BrainVisualizationArticle.htm

There has been another study that was comparing pain sensitivity in newborn vs. adults. The results were quite shocking! Newborn indeed don’t feel pain the way adults do. They feel it 1. more intense; 2. on a larger area and 3. for a longer period of time!

Lucky babies would pass out being unable to coop with such intense pain; not lucky ones will not and will go through the whole agony all the way.

There has been also a study that proved that intact boys and girls have higher thresholds of pain than circumcised boys. It was published in the Lancet (British medical journal) in 1997.

While permanent psychological impact of circumcision is still mostly unknown, it’s logical to assume that just like any extremely painful and traumatic event—even if forgotten—it can lead to a permanent emotional/psychological scar/damage.

yulia · 04-23-2008, 01:00 PM

Even a perfectly performed circumcision does not guarantee that a person will not have more serious (beyond the mentioned above) problems in his future sexual life. Such problems as, for example, too tight (sometimes even painful) erections can be due to removal of too much foreskin and whatever left over just not enough to accommodate a normal erection are much more common than many people think since it’s nearly impossible to know for sure how much is “too much” until the penis reaches its full-grown size. Removal of too much foreskin can also lead to a shaft of the penis being hairy (it pulls skin from above to more or less accommodate an erection).

Penn and Teller video called “Circumcision Bullshit”. This video is funny and therefore, takes a lot of tension off the subject while saying what needs to be said. It also explains and SHOWS non-surgical foreskin restoration. I highly recommend to take a look at this video.

Yahoo Video: http://tinyurl.com/23kcyc
Google Video: http://tinyurl.com/2hhud3

As any surgery, circumcision may have some very serious (even life threatening) complications. http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/complications.html
http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/ . Of course, the most horrible complication is death and there were quite few of them as well (here is the most recent one http://healthblog.ctv.ca/blog/_archives/2007/5/22/2967860.html ; and I’m talking about reported deaths only; god knows what the real number of circumcision victims is.

Circumcision started in North America in the Puritan 1870s as a cure for masturbation (yes, you read it right! masturbation was considered to be evil and sinful and was blamed for all sort of illnesses including blindness, paralysis and mental retardation) http://www.cirp.org/library/history/ , http://www.noharmm.org/docswords.htm , http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/shorthis.htm
.
As late as the 1970's medical books were claiming that desensitizing the boy was good medicine as well as good morality. The idea of that, touted openly by medical scholarship with notable pride, was carefully tucked away when the sexual revolution permitted sexual pleasure.

More great links:

NORM - The National Organization of Restoring Men
http://www.norm.org/

Mothers Who Observed Circumcision
http://www.circumcision.org/mothers.htm

Robert Redford's new movie Lions For Lambs is sponsoring this contest where you post a 90 second YouTube video about what you really believe in.

Just Like Daddy video

While this video is for artificial foreskin (and I really have mixed feelings about the product) this video is AWESOME as far as showing the process of keratinization and loss of sensitivity by using computer graphic, explaining the process in a very powerful and easy-to-understand way. To view the video, please click on the link and then go to “View The SenSlip Video” http://www.senslip.com/Photo_of_the_SenSlip_fitted.php .

THE NEW ZEALANDMEDICAL JOURNAL “Effects of male circumcision on female arousal and orgasm” http://www.cirp.org/library/sex_function/bensley1/

TOP 10 ways Circumcised SEX Harms women
http://www.sexasnatureintendedit.com/10F/1hook_scrapes.html

This website shows very clear (it explains AND also it shows very graphic videos) about how sex with circumcised penis is different than with an intact one. (there are ALOT of videos almost on every page that explains everything in very powerful and easy way).

Male Circumcision Reduces Female Pleasure
http://www.healthcentral.com/drdean/408/60750.html

The effect of male circumcision on the sexual enjoyment of the female partner
http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/ohara/

The Nurses of St. Vincent: Saying "No" to Circumcision (short version)

YouTube - The Nurses of St. Vincent: Saying...

Nurses for the Rights of the Child http://nurses.cirp.org

yulia · 05-12-2008, 01:05 PM

The Day Nicole Withdrew From Nursing School
Nurses and Circumcision (on the bottom of the page)

Quote:

Back in 1996, I began an OB/GYN hospital clinical as a student nurse. One day, I was enlisted to attend a 'routine circumcision.' I did not realize how much that event would shatter the very foundation of a career choice made in ignorance. I appeared in the doorway of the circ room and saw the little newborn boy to whom I was 'assigned' for the day. 20 years old and not having kids of my own, I did not anticipate the lurching sensation that gripped my heart. Laying strapped down to a table, so small and new....pure and innocent...trusting...all alone...no defenses..., I walked toward the baby and wanted to grab him off the table and shelter him..to tell him that nobody would hurt him…

Quote:

In walked the doctor...loud..obnoxious..joking with his assistant...as if he was about to perform a 10 minute oil change..not once did he talk to this little baby. Rather, he reached for his cold metal instruments..and then reached out for his object of mutilation...this sweet newborn's perfect unharmed penis. As I recall the screams of pain and terror.. his small lungs barely able to keep up with the cries..I turned in horror as I saw the doctor forcefully pull his foreskin around a metal object. Then came the knife..cut...cut..cut..

I stood next to the baby and said..you're almost done sweety..almost done...There..done. Then came the words..as that son-of-a-##### dangled the foreskin in midair.."anybody care to go fishing?"

My tongue lodged in my throat..I felt like I was about to vomit. I restrained myself..and my duty was to then take the infant back to the nursery for 'observation.' Here is where I realized I couldn't do it. I could not be a part of such a cold, sterile, out-of-touch medical model...Rather than observing, I cradled the infant...I held him and whispered comforting words as if he were my own...I'll never forget those new little eyes watch me as if in a haze...he knew I cared about him...he knew he was safe in my arms..he knew that I was going to take him to his mommy...but, deep in his little heart, at some level, I know he wondered where his mommy was.....while he lay there mutilated in what was supposed to be a safe and welcoming environment. I made a note in the chart and then caught a glimpse of myself in a mirror...my chest and face had broken out in purple splotches. My next thought? I can't do this...I refuse to do this...this is NOT for me. I took the baby to his mother..who was complaining about 'some pain' she was experiencing...I never addressed her pain because I left to go to my locker..I grabbed my belongings..and hoped that my rejection of this 'medical system' could serve as some type of redemption for the violation of that newborn that I cradled in my arms that day. The next day, I withdrew from nursing school...and never looked back.

__________________________________________________ _____________

very interesting! Circumcision - aggregated criminal assault by Margaret A. Somerville, AM, FRSC Gale Professor of Law; Professor, Faculty of Medicine
http://www.courtchallenge.com/letters/somer1.html#97nov10

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