aramis

I have a 16 year old daughter who bailed on a family cruise to see a concert and hang with friends. With one week to go, she said she wasn't coming. She would not change her mind and I had to eat the $1500. I wanted to get some consequences lined up with the ex - pay back some or all, grounding from concerts she wanted to attend, etc. but, before we left my ex got pissed at me for something my daughter told her I said, wouldn't tell me what it was and refused to speak to me - even to discuss how to handle dd. I learned she had agreed to take dd to one of the concerts, so I knew I was screwed on getting any agreement on consequences. YES, my ex is that petty and territorial that she would pull something like that to spite me - she claimed it was my problem and i would have to deal with it without actually refusing or agreeing to go along with things we had discussed. now you see why we are where we are, in large part.

I return to find out that ex and daughter had a HUGE blowout Monday that resulted in accusations by my ex that dd struck her and her husband. The fight was over dd's desire to go to another concert in a city 2 hours away on a school day next month. DD stormed off at 10 p.m. and did not advise ex where she was staying.

Ex wants my cooperation in dealing with this - SURPRISE! - ex wants to wait until dd wears out her welcome wherever she is. I expressed concern over safety, first, and said I would try and determine that she was safe.

I call dd's bf's cell and reached her. I explained I wanted to make sure she was safe. She wouldn't tell me where she was but I presume nearby because bf has parents who don't put up with crap. She said she stayed at friends I asked her what she was going to do tonight and got the familiar "I dunno". I reminded her of one of my sayings when we get into it - "if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging", and suggested that she consider opening a dialogue.

I think dd might show up here tonight, maybe not. I had expected a call from the parents of the friend, but nothing.

It has been 3 nights - she is staying with a friend and has spoken to me twice - not willing to talk about it - tried to get me to give her money or she won't even let me know she is safe, and she will go somewhere else where i don't know where she is. real nice.

Any advice?

jtee

Boy, you sure do have your hands full at the moment. I tip my hat to you because I can only imagine what has proceeded all of this, and clearly it won't be resolved over night either. You really need to zero in on it so you can see the bigger picture. Sometimes it is easy to get mislead if you look too closely at the details, but if you step back and look at it from a distance, you can see through all the subterfuge, if you know what I mean.

I like your comment "if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging". That is that is very good advice.

fallon

I hate to say it but at this point if she isn't willing to let you know she's safe, come home and talk to you about what's going on I think I would call the police. I think it should be a last resort but it's there. She seems to need a little fear in her, at this age they have none sometimes. I think it might be time her actions caught up with her

FooserX

I would also call the cops. She's your kid...I'm amazed you've let her go anywhere for any amount of time without calling them.

My co-worker had unruley daughters that age too a while ago, and she called the cops a few times. It was pretty funny. They were shocked that the police had to come get them, but they came home, and that was that.

You're giving her power, when she has none until she's 18. This crap shouldn't even be up for discussion.

aramis

I'm not sure what the law is where you live, but here in Ontario, a child can withdraw from parental control once they turn 16. There is not a damn thing I can do, legally about this unless she is "missing" and that situation does not exist yet. I could lie to the police but that would get me in trouble and once they found here they couldn't force her to do anything. They are not babysitters, she's not missing or in danger - well relatively speaking anyway.

Authorities are "out" as an option. She can stay away as long as she likes.

I have talked with the parents where she has stayed the last three nights and they went out of town this weekend - so did her bf's family. She told them she would come to my place this evening, but that could just have been to keep them calm when they asked her where she was going to sleep tonight.

I imagine she is at a teen club watching a concert tonight. If she doesn't come here, the worries begin. I will try and confirm tomorrow where she is and if I can't, then maybe I have a reason to involve the police. Assuming it goes that far and they find here, she will probably just tell them she is fine and to leave her alone.

Man this blows.

fallon

I'm very sorry. Here she wouldn't be allowed to do this until she was 18 or the court said it was OK for her to be out on her own, I forget it's different in other places. It sounds like you're doing everything you can but I guess as things stand if she doesn't want to go come home she doesn't actually have too. It's scary to think that they consider 16 yr. old child mature enough to be out making grown up choices. They are no where near ready to be out on their own at that age. It has to hard for you and your family, I wish I could offer alittle more advice to you

jtee

I must say, that is absolutely unbeleivable!!!

Kaytee

wow 16 and have full rights! That is crazy

__________________

If you can't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them!
http://www.spcnicholasidalski.com

aramis

Here is a summary of the legal rights of a 16 year old in Ontario. It is not "full rights" but you can essentially live on your own.

My daughter came back here last night - I will write a separate note on that.

16 & OVER

• You can:

- withdraw from your parent’s control (i.e. leave home) but you may lose your right to financial support [Child and Family Services Act, Children’s Law Reform Act, & Family Law Act]
- apply for a beginners driver’s license [Highway Traffic Act]
- get married with your parents’ consent, a court order or permission from the Minister of Consumer & Business Services [Marriage Act]
- change your name with your parents’ consent or a court order [Change of Name Act]
- refuse emergency medical treatment [Health Care Consent Act]

• You are considered an adult under the Provincial Offences Act, i.e. your parents will
  not be notified about any charges
  
• If you are not married, you can apply and receive social assistance in special circumstances. Examples: you are kicked out or forced to leave home because of abuse.
  [Ontario Works Act]
  
• You are protected from age discrimination when looking for housing [Ontario Human Rights Code]
  
• You can not be brought into the care of a Children’s Aid Society [Child Family Services Act]
  
• You have the right to be involved in decisions about your special education needs [Education Act]
  
• If you have withdrawn from parental control, you may have the right to appeal school-related decisions, i.e. suspensions and expulsions [Common law & Education Act]
  
• You can protect your right to privacy of, and exercise access to, your own personal information. This includes information collected by your school, libraries and the police. [Municipal Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act ]
  
• In case you become incapable of making decisions, you can appoint a substitute decision maker for medical treatment and personal care decisions. This person must follow your treatment wishes that you made after you turned 16. You can also be appointed as a substitute decision maker for someone else. [Health Care Consent Act & Substitute Decisions Act]
  
• You are considered an adult for the purposes of the Mental Health Act, i.e. you can apply for a court order to place you in treatment program for mental health issues. [Child and Family Services Act]
  
  

aramis

Okay, she came home last night and we talked.

Her version of the events has her step-father being the aggressor; punch, choke hold, throw to the ground, as she simply tried to leave her mother's house with an overnight bag. She had come home from her bf's at 10 p.m. after the earlier afternoon blowout with her mother and was immediately denied access to the house.

DD is furious that her mother stood by and did nothing while this was occurring.

When she finally got the bag and was leaving, retrieving her bike from the garage, her stepfather came out, alone, and as she cycled out of distance from him hurriedly, with a garden claw she had grabbed for protection, she threw the claw down on the ground.

The ex has told me that the claw was thrown at his head and that this is one of the elements that most concerns her. It seems like the ex might not have even seen the incident as she was inside, so she might be relying on the version related by stepfather who would have a vested interest in playing it up to take the attention off of his earlier behaviour.

My dd broker down when I told her that was the version I heard. She never wants to return to her mothers. I think the events in the house fighting over the overnight bag might be subject to some interpretation (3 sides to every argument - yours, mine and the truth) but the garden claw thing I am giving to my daughter. She has thrown things in my house when disciplined in a way she does not think fair in my house, but never at me nor anyone else.

I have an ex who expects me to get together on discipline for an out of control daughter and a daughter who expects me to believe she was the victim of assault while her mother watched and lies by the aggressor on her behaviour. Stepfather previously lied during assessment about a confrontation we had in a parking lot when he threatened to "break me" because I told him a decision not to accept the kids winter jackets from us was "not very wise" as the weather was going to turn nasty the next day and the jackets were at our house. I chuckled at him and said that was very mature and then tossed in barb about the ex. At the next joint assessment I was confronted by the assessor about the threatening action i had taken in the parking lot. She wouldn't get into specific of what she was told by him (ex did not witness the incident), but I expressed astonishment that the issue was even mentioned because he made the only threat and I had brushed it off as puffery.

This is going to be so messy. There are two other children (we have a 50/50 custody situation - week on week off and live very close together)

I am going to suggest to the ex that she and I go immediately to counseling (daughter won't even think of it right now) with the person who did our assessment 3 years ago to save time on the history gathering aspect. She will accuse me of being soft (HA!) and facilitating dd's aggressive non-compliant behaviour, it will sour our already poor communication, the boys will be under stress...

More advice please!!