Daughter wrote a story that's 'out of bounds'

[Dad]

Hello all! I'm new here and I feel that the problem with children is usually the parents so I think I should start my question with some background (I hope you like to read!) Also, I think the issue is a bit complex but I may be over thinking the problem.

- Our daughter is 11 and she loves to read and write. She's a very fast reader. She enjoys writing short stories, usually mimicking ones she's read. She's very artistic in drawing, music, gardening. Writing is probably her 'not best' artistic skill (as you can see below)

- She's slightly ADHD and currently off meds. I understand that this could contribute to what she did.

- My wife and I are in our early 50's and pretty open minded. (son that's 8)

- I'm a veteran Marine so I 'bark' a bit but it's never anger and it always goes with hugs. I believe in educating rather than punishing.

- I was a REAL problem child and pretty much remember what I knew and did at her age. (Example: I was a pack-a-day smoker at her age)

- I seem to always get to do the talks since I was the bad boy and my wife was a good girl, my wife doesn't seem to see problems on the horizon.

- About a year ago we bought her an American Girl book to cover the facts of life. I think most parents know the series. It's age specific and covers everything from boobs to anal (I won't say more - that should give the idea)

- We speak with her openly about anything she asks about. We speak like an adult but trying to keep her age and innocence in mind.

- We don't watch any reality TV shows. None of us like them.

- We know it's impossible to keep kids from certain things (in this case swearing) so I've generally made rules like this:
- 1) Absolutely NO bad words around grandparents ('fart', 'screwed', 'mean')
- 2) Words that are on the kids channels are OK at home ('fart', 'screwed', etc.)
- 3) There are words that we know they'll say with friends but NEVER let an adult hear them. If it happens, they get scolded and educated (they HATE it when I talk for 10 minutes and 'waste' their time)
- 4) I'm not sure that I've ever emphasized the 'F' word though. I try to not make a big fuss about things because it gives them more of my attention.
I don't think we've ever had any repeat offenses on swearing.

On the flip side, she really likes gore (and me too). I let her watch grown-up (non-sex) shows with me because we talk about the actors, camera position, special effects, etc. She doesn't like to see aggressive violence.

Also, we try to let her write what she wants. She likes to write about gore, romance, etc. She's not allowed to write certain things for school but she writes stories on her own at home to show to us.

Overall, she's a pretty typical kid (who does fight with her little brother).

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THE PROBLEM/QUESTION:

Below is a link to a story she posted online. I can't cut-and-paste it but near the end of the story she writes "...cause you're a f***en dumbass idiot..."

Her story

The story she copied

We don't know how to approach this because we're pretty confused by much of the story for multiple reasons...

1) The use of the 'F' word - this may be most important but there's a twist below

2) She starts with a disclaimer - she knows that we get copied on everything she does online. It seems like she's warning us that she's cursing

3) The story looks like she intentionally used bad grammar. And I HONESTLY don't think her spelling is that bad

Like I said earlier, she likes to read a story and rewrite it her way. The story she copied has about the same attitude, about the same grammar and also has the 'F' word late in Chapter 1. She may have been trying to copy the attitude of the story and was compelled to make it that way. The story she copied has 66,000 reads (I don't get it!) so she may see this as acceptable because other people read it.

If you read my daughter's story closely, she's clearly defines characters with personalities. The one who swears is a self-proclaimed bad girl.

I don't like her using the 'F' word in her writing but my biggest concern is that she seems to have decided to mimic a teenager writer with a poor attitude. I don't want to discourage her writing. I don't feel I can say the person she's copying is bad without providing a better alternative. She needs someone to look up to in what she enjoys doing. I'm not clear how to do this (and that's the question).

I don't know if something like this is normal for her age (now vs. 40 years ago) and don't have many ideas for how to approach it.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

BTW, if you go on that site and see an adult male named 'EnzoIsMe' who may seem a bit too old to be following her, that's me.

[bssage]

My boy will be 12 in july. And he likes to write. We have covered the cussing issue and I see some similarities between your daughter and my boy. At times he will be relating a story and use the disclaimer "I may need to cuss".

I try to not be a hypocrite and explain that cussing is like picking your nose. Most people do both at some time or another. That is really not the question. What is: is when, why, and where you choose to do it. I.E. if something is in your nose, excuse yourself to the restroom and use a tissue. Or if you cuss it should be in a place not to be overheard by parents, Grandparents or younger children. That shows that your both smart and respectful.

I have also spent a lot of time explaining that cussing is really a matter of either being to lazy or unable to express yourself intelligently.

I also include cussing in my repeated "limiting choices" discussions. From time to time he will ask about smoking, drinking, drugs. This "limiting choices" is also applied to racism, grades, and other topics.

It goes something like this. Yes he can do these things. Many people do. But all they really do is limit the choices they can make with their life. Many people do not want to hang around with people who cuss. Many parents wont let their kids hang out with kids who cuss. Cussing effectively reduces the number of people he/she can choose from to hang around with (potential friends).

All of those things I mentioned do. And they can limit so much more. Like where you can go. What kind of job you can have. ECT.

Any time he opens the door for this talk I reinforce that bad decisions only reduce his ability make decisions: and do what he wants. If he wants others to make decisions or choices for him. All he has to do is make bad ones.

And yes depending on the specific conversation I may use inmates as an example of no longer having the ability to make decisions or have choices

I dont think you can STOP this with a talk. IMHO its something that needs to be repeatedly driven into their little peanut heads.

I think I have been pretty successful with this. Just from observing other kids.

I would approach it as a big picture/small picture kinda thing. Thats what I am doing.

Do I cuss? Yes but very rarely and even then I apologize and rephrase what I said.

[cybele]

I don't think her spelling and grammar are that bad for an 11yr old, they seem pretty on par actually. Other than the abbreviations, but that is how girls write around that age, both my 10yr and and 12yr old write things about their "BFF's" and "BGF's" and so on.

If she enjoys writing then maybe she see's it as a release, she's an 11yr old girl, I honestly didnt see much in there that I dont see my girls around that age coming out with on occasion. She's playing with the idea of being a teenager through fiction, rather than through her own life, I think thats pretty cool.

[NancyM]

Wow. That's pretty great that she wants to write. I wouldn't say anything about the cussing because it's part of her characters personality.

That's the difference. She's not talking that way as her self.

Writing is like acting. The actor has to be allowed to say and do what ever works to make that character real. If people tell them not to say this word, or not to stand that way, or not to cry too loud/soft, or don't smile or squint or turn your face this way...because it's not appropriate, and other people won't like it, the actor would stink.

I think you could mention to her that cursing is allowed/ or you and her mom understand it, when it appplies to her characters, but the house rules still apply to her and her brother about what is acceptable and what isn't.

I wouldn't even say I disapprove of anything in her story. I would let her create and write and go with her style and feelings.

It's a gift.

[Dad]

Thanks folks, I REALLY appreciate the feedback. I think the most important thing is for me to know what's normal and what's not. As I wrote at the start of my post, I think that problems with children are usually actually problems with parenting and I don't want to be a problem parent.

I've sat for a day and digested the feedback. I've decided that from home, I'm going to keep nudging her in the right direction and look for opportunities to discuss how people communicate verbally and non-verbally, and how different words can be used to leave the same impression. I do like the fact that she likes to read and write, and wouldn't want to stifle that.

From the website, I'm hoping she'll connect with my ghost writer character 'Enzo' and I'll use him to give more direct writing suggestions. (I think I made him too old for her to listen to though).

Thanks to all again who provided feedback!

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Aside from the advice, I'd like to ask anyone who would, to go to her story and click on 'Vote' to vote for it to provide her with encouragement. Also if you have the time, make a comment that includes some advice for improvement as you see fit. I think everyone who commented here had a good perspective so I feel that any advice you can provide her would be good advice. Here is the link to the story again.

Thanks again! This seems like a good forum.

[cybele]

I may be overstepping here, but if she finds out that you are Enzo, which she probably will, kids are very computer savvy nowadays, I think you will create more problems than it is worth.

I really think that letting her develop her own writing style, rather than the writing style you want her to have is the greater benefit.

[NancyM]

Originally Posted by Dad

Thanks folks, I REALLY appreciate the feedback. I think the most important thing is for me to know what's normal and what's not. As I wrote at the start of my post, I think that problems with children are usually actually problems with parenting and I don't want to be a problem parent.

I've sat for a day and digested the feedback. I've decided that from home, I'm going to keep nudging her in the right direction and look for opportunities to discuss how people communicate verbally and non-verbally, and how different words can be used to leave the same impression. I do like the fact that she likes to read and write, and wouldn't want to stifle that.

From the website, I'm hoping she'll connect with my ghost writer character 'Enzo' and I'll use him to give more direct writing suggestions. (I think I made him too old for her to listen to though).

Thanks to all again who provided feedback!

---------------------------

Aside from the advice, I'd like to ask anyone who would, to go to her story and click on 'Vote' to vote for it to provide her with encouragement. Also if you have the time, make a comment that includes some advice for improvement as you see fit. I think everyone who commented here had a good perspective so I feel that any advice you can provide her would be good advice. Here is the link to the story again.

Thanks again! This seems like a good forum.

Nix the Enzo idea!!

[Dad]

cybele - I definitely don't feel like you're suggestion is overstepping. Any feedback is well considered.

I may let Enzo disappear. The longer I think about the suggestions here, the more I think it's unnecessary as well.

Thanks again.

[IADad]

Can you discuss the matter from a literary point of view? Ask her about the characters, who they are, how she came up with them (and maybe why the cuss?)

I would hope that she learns how very powerful words are. She's using the words for a purpose, which I tons better than a youth who is so careless with their words that they swear for no particular reason.

[Dad]

Thanks IADad - I'll probably do that when I find a good opening for the conversation.

I went on Amazon to look for books that may direct her writing a bit. I found one called Seize the Story that looks good so I'll probably get her that. Talking about the book should also give me an indirect opening to breach the topic.