Circumcision ban?

[mom2many]

Circumcision. You’re either for it or against it. It’s a big decision that parents have to make when they hear “It’s a boy!” The information out there can be very overwhelming for not just first-time parents but veteran parents who are rethinking where they stand on the issue as well. Where it was once a given that sons would be circumcised, things have changed.

As with many things, what was once held as fact is no longer true: information changes, research advances, and our parenting is forced to adapt. It is definitely not one size fits all.

Recently in Cologne, Germany, the act of circumcision has been made illegal. CBC NEWS, Yes, a criminal act. There is no religious exemption. The lower courts found that circumcision went "against the interests of a child to decide later for himself what religion he wishes to belong to." In essence the courts have said that religious considerations are not enough of a reason to justify that kind of surgery. Why? Because the courts found that it causes “bodily harm to babies.”

So where do I stand in this whole debate? Interesting question. While I personally oppose circumcision, is it really criminal? I have a hard time making that leap. All parents do what they believe is in the best interest of their child, and most make their choices off of the wealth of information out there.

I will admit to cringing when I hear a parent's reasoning is because dad is done or they don't want their son to be made fun of. Yet, it is their choice and I respect it grudgingly. To be honest, though, dad and son are never going to be comparing their penises, nor are young men in the locker room. Add into that fact that being intact is now the new normal, and the logic does escape me.

Where am I going with this? I don’t know. I am interested in other parents' opinions, though: not just on whether or a not an infant should be circumcised, but whether Germany is actually onto something.

[Incogneato]

The wife and I had this same discussion when we found out we were having a boy. We came to the conclusion that it is his body, and we have no right to decide prematurely what to do with it in regards to a decision in which there is no major or life threatening medical problem at hand. Since it would ultimately boil down to doing it either for religious reasons or for the sake of appearance, we decided to let him make that decision on his own later if he wants.

In regards to whether or not I think it's criminal, that's a good question. On the one hand, I can understand parents wanting to do it because of their own personal religious decisions, but as was said in your post, that may not be what they want their religion to be later in life, in which case you essentially modified/deformed/battered (whatever phrase you want to use), against your sons will. Your son had no say in it, it was not their decision and there was no medical reason to do it. I'd have to say that Germany is on to something and I'd support a law of some sort that stopped unnecessary circumcisions.

[Jeremy+3]

If it isn't criminal or abuse to circumcise a baby then under the same reasoning it should be criminal or abuse to remove all of their skin from one of their fingers without pain relief, or the clitoral hood.

[ElliottCarasDad]

Originally Posted by Incogneato

In regards to whether or not I think it's criminal, that's a good question. On the one hand, I can understand parents wanting to do it because of their own personal religious decisions, but as was said in your post, that may not be what they want their religion to be later in life, in which case you essentially modified/deformed/battered (whatever phrase you want to use), against your sons will. Your son had no say in it, it was not their decision and there was no medical reason to do it. I'd have to say that Germany is on to something and I'd support a law of some sort that stopped unnecessary circumcisions.

I'd have to agree to that as well. We had our son circumcised strictly because my wife was worried that he would be made fun of. I was kind of against it just for the unnecessary need for it. We arent religious in any way but my wife was adamant that he would be made fun of by girls who see it. Of course her parents are mad-whack and have screwed her and her siblings up big time anyways.

[teenage_parent]

i've spent the the last hour researching on some scientific research about the physiological harm of circumcision. i can't find any.

i found psychological research and surveys but no physiological research.

can someone paste links?

[mom2many]

Me neither....may not exist on it's own..

[bssage]

We were like ECD. They say at the time they wont remember. I dont know. I am glad I dont. That thing they strap them into looks scary as hell.

[parentastic]

Originally Posted by teenage_parent

i've spent the the last hour researching on some scientific research about the physiological harm of circumcision. i can't find any.
i found psychological research and surveys but no physiological research.
can someone paste links?

Here is one from the Journal of Men's health & Gender, Volume 4, Issue 3, September 2007, Pages 312–317 - from the ScienceDirect portal:
Male circumcision – see the harm to get a balanced picture
I accessed it through my subscription at the university library, so I don't know if it's open to public. Let me know if you can't read it and I'll see what I can do.

Also from the same journal, a very extensive review of nearly all the angles possibles:
The case against circumcision, George Hill, Vice-President for Bioethics and Medical Science for Doctors Opposing Circumcision, Seattle, Washington, USA.
Journal of Men's health & Gender, Volume 4, Issue 3, September 2007, Pages 318–323

I am reproducing here the conclusion of this article:

The case in favor of male circumcision is based on specious literature largely created to satisfy the emotional compulsions of wounded circumcised men [27] and [35]. Similarly, the position statements of medical societies (frequently written by circumcised men) are biased in favor of circumcision [5]. Claimed health benefits are illusory and do not offset the proven risks, complications, and disadvantages that exceed any claimed benefits [4]. On close analysis, there is no case for non-therapeutic or prophylactic circumcision.

Male circumcision is harmful because it excises healthy tissue [12] and permanently impairs beneficial physiological functions [6] and [8]. Male circumcision also causes psychological problems that tend to perpetuate the cycle of abuse [24] and [27]. Male circumcision is a costly diversion of medical resources away from beneficial services [4]. Male circumcision violates legal rights, human rights, and ethical standards [44], [46], [47], [48] and [49]. Finally, we must remember that males are the more vulnerable and sensitive of the two genders [50] and, therefore, deserve the greater degree of protection from traumatic, invasive, injurious, and unnecessary surgery. For all of these reasons the non-therapeutic circumcision of boys should not be performed and the genital integrity of all children should be respected and protected.

See the full article for the numbered references.

[singledad]

I've honestly never understood the American passion for circumcision. Why would you want to subject a perfectly healthy infant boy to surgery? I'm sorry, but I just don't get it. Surgery is inherently risky, and IMO the only time surgery should ever be performed is when the risks of not performing it outweighs the risks of performing it.

I can't see that there are any real risks involved with not circumcising a boy...

Originally Posted by mom2many

they don't want their son to be made fun of

Why would a boy be made fun of . Is it really so common there that American girls doesn't realise what a penis should look like? <shudder>

I personally think that Germany might be onto something.

The religious aspect could perhaps be debated, but I'm not convinced either that everything that is done on religious grounds should necessarily be legal. Too many human rights violations have been justified this way. Unfortunately, a law like that would never get past our constitutional court, precisely because of the "freedom of religion" thing.

Sorry, but I just cringe at the thought...

[cybele]

I do have a friend who rang me a few years back when she was dating a new guy and said "HIS PENIS IS SO STRANGE! SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH HIM!" turns out he was uncircumcised and she had never seen it before, ahh I couldn't stop laughing.

It was the social norm in our generation, when I had Azriel I was asked if we were considering it after he was born, we said no because we had no reason to, no religious beliefs that require it. After we had Sasha nothing was mentioned, so I guess if we wanted it we would have had to seek it out themselves.

So I guess it is dropping in popularity.

Honestly, I don't have an opinion, if you want to, then you do, if you have no reason to, then you don't.