My daughter is defiant and slipping in school...HELP!

[kimberleigh]

I am a newbie here, just looking for some help. My 11 year old who just started middle school this year is out of control. She steals, lies, refuses to do homework or chores, completely disregards any boundaries or consequences and seems to value nothing. Please help me. At this point I am looking for boarding schools or boot camps to send her to, because I obviously am not doing something right. She was an A/B honor roll student through 4th grade, in 5th grade something changed and now this year her report card for the 1st quarter had 2 F's and a D with 2 A's. Everyone knows she is a smart kid, she just refuses to do the work. She lies to me constantly and it seems like she does so just out of habit, like she completely disregards the truth altogether. For instance, this morning I got up and found her taking my boots off, she tells me that she had just taken the dog outside but she didn't wear them...Uh, what??? I wouldn't have cared if she wore them, but she blatantly lies to me about things that don't matter and it gets even worse if she's done something that's actually wrong, like stealing $20 out of my purse. She steals money and her sisters' and brother's things, she is just out of control. When we got her report card I cried and she promised it would be all a's this time and we just received her interim report that she has a 40% in one of her classes.

Her little sister has all a's and is very obedient. Her little brother is in kindergarten and is doing very well, and the baby sister is 3 in daycare. I don't have the same kinds of trouble with them that I have with her. I just really don't know what to do. Every spare moment that my husband and I have it seems like we are dealing with Katie. I hate seeing the toll that it is taking on the whole family and I just don't know how to fix it. Should I seek out a boarding school so that her brother and sisters don't use her as an example of how to behave?

[SuperMario]

You seem to care a lot about how they are obedient. Maybe you were too controlling and now she realizes she doesn't have to listen? Boarding school or boot camp would probably just tick her off and push her away from you. Of course I could be absolutely wrong. Just my two cents.

[kimberleigh]

So you don't think I should be worried that my child who is capable of excelling in school is now failing, she's stealing from everyone and lying about everything? What do you suggest?

[Kaytee]

I think you are worried and shouldbe. I am not sure how to hand eit as I do not have a child this age yet, but I would say she needs stricter boundries for the time being and you need to stick to it. no friends if she cannot sit and do her homework things like that. You probably are doing these things already but....
Did this start to happen all of a sudden or was it gradual? Maybe something happened that set her off, being herrassed and school or something more serious.

[Jules]

Here is the thought I had when I first read your post. Is there any chance she is into some kind of drugs. Not necessarily hard stuff but even huffing or something like that. I don't have a child that age but it seems that something has definately changed drastically if she is being so different than last year. I don't know how you would approach that subject but you may need to find out more about her friends and what they do. I hope this is just my overreaction, but definately something that should be considered

As for the disrespectful behavior maybe it is time she learned to earn the things she has. Strip away all her priveleges and make her earn them. I have a friend who took the door off her childs bedroom so they would no long beable to close it and seclued themself from the family, they hung a sheet instead so she would have some privacy while changing and such. Give her a bed and her clothing and nothing else. Allow her to earn her things back by getting her grades back up and behaving in an appropriate manner. Make her work to pay back the money and things she has stolen. By work Imean, chores around the house x value, when the chore is done she takes that off what she owes. But you also have to show her respect when she earns it, or she won't learn how to give respect either.

(this is not aimed at you since I don't know much about your home situation, just general observation of today's youth) It seems today kids think that they are intitled to every thing, and that parents owe them something. That is not the case. As parents our responsibility is to provide a loving enviornment, feed, clothes and provide shelter for our children, and teach them how to behave in society. No where in that does it say kids need Ipods, designer clothes or cell phones. I think parents are starting to reallize this and maybe oneday kids will stop acting like spoiled brats and start appreciating the things they have and the parents that give it to them. Just my opinion.

Anyway good luck, I hope Katie gets her act back together. Sorry forthe book. LOL

[kimberleigh]

Thank you both for the responses Kaytee & Jules....I have set stricter boundaries and she just either refuses to respect them and goes behind my back or she doesn't care about it. Its very frustrating. I am pretty sure that she is not doing any kind of drugs, though I did approach her about it, she looked at me as if I was out of my mind and she only gets that look if she is really shocked, so I'm pretty sure that's not what is happening. I guess I hate to admit it could be related to her biological father's continued and increasing lack of presence in her life. He was visiting her every couple of months, then it became less and less, about the same time that things changed. The biggest single instance I can pinpoint was that last year I allowed her to go on a 3 day field trip with her school. The key was she had to make sure her grades were good, and the day of the field trip her teacher told me she was not turning in her homework. She had a new best friend and then when she got home she was different. I don't know what happened and the only clue I have is that she said when she had some punch at the party they had she felt funny. That is all I know and could never get any additional information about it from the teachers, etc and partially because of her tendency even then to lie and exaggerate I didn't really believe anything like that, since I knew the chaperones and they were always present....writing this out I think maybe I should check with some of the other parents to find out if their children have had any similar situations or what their experience was on the trip. I really don't think it could be that, but I guess I should investigate all possibilities. But she has been acting out much longer than that at home. It is just that school was never an issue. When my husband, Katie's stepfather, met her and came over for dinner the first time, he wound up chasing her around the city block because she got the idea to ride her bike alone at age 6! That was his introduction to her and she hasn't stopped being a handful since. Even before he came into our lives she was very difficult to deal with as far as lying and going behind my back. I don't know, I'm just trying to do the best I can as a mother and she is giving me a run for it! As far as her values and wanting things, she doesn't care when we take her privileges, she just buries herself in a book. We take those and she goes behind my back and sneaks out of her room to watch tv. She just refuses with utmost stubbornness to respect any rules of our home or otherwise. She was suspended from riding her school bus a couple months ago. She was just being obnoxious to other students and the driver to the point the driver had to pull over to get her to be quiet. I don't know...I'm at a loss. I just keep hoping one day I will figure out what she needs. I'm all for giving her what she NEEDS, and when earned or deserving the extra things she wants.

[kimberleigh]

To the person who sent the PM, you know who you are and
since I am new here, I haven't posted enough to be able to respond privately, so here is my response.:

Thanks so much for your response. What was it that made you do the things you did? Do you know of anything that I can do to help her, other than the counseling? I'm ok with that, just want to do something myself as well. What would you suggest?

I would love to be able to keep in touch with you. My yahoo IM is kimber_n

Thanks again.

[jtee]

Based on what I've read, this type of behavior needs professional help ASAP. It's always possible it will blow over without professional help, but the odds are that it will only get worse over the next couple of years, so its best to get professional counselors involved that have experience dealing with extreme behavior problems. Unless it's a medical or mental health problem, the right combination of rewards\repercussions will motivate a child to stay headed in the right direction. The bar is not always the same for every child, sometimes just graduating high school or getting a GED can be considered a major success story.

[SuperMario]

She is lashing out for a reason. I really think punishment may not help. Like Jtee said professional help would be a good idea. Something is probably bothering her. Also a good thing to follow is to reward good behavior and ignore bad behavior. I know this works with younger kids she may be to old now but it is worth a try.

[sadinplaid]

My sister at age 12 sounds just like your 11yo. My parents went through hell with her, and it didn't stop until recently (she's 21). She started out lying, acting out, taking things that didn't belong to her, then it turned into sneaking out, having sex (yes, at age 12), drinking (alcohol poisoning at age 13), drugs, dropped out of high school (age 16), and then pregnancy (age 17 and again at 18 and again at 19 and again at 20...); she ran away, got into harder drugs (crack) and started stealing from our family and diappeared from our lives for a little while. I know my sister's story sounds insane, but I'm reading what you're writing and completely flashing back to my sister's adolescence. My parents also could take away everything she owned, all of her privileges, and she just shrugged it off with a nasty attitude; she would actually scream at them that she didn't care when they would ground her or take away the internet or her stereo. They tried church groups, counselling, eventually in-patient treatment, and changing our family structure (like making more time for us, sitting down to dinner, family meetings, etc...) and nothing worked, but I think they would agree that they let things go too far before they took action. They kept hoping things would get better without too much interference from them, that maybe it was just a stage, and by the time they did step in she was completely out of control. And the way you talk about how your other kids are so much more easy-going - well, that was me. I was never much trouble. You could not have looked at my sister and I during our teenage years and guessed that we came from the same household. I rarely broke curfew, made good grades, didn't rock the boat much.
I guess the point of all this it to tell you not to wait. Whatever you decide to do, take action now.