age restrictions...

bobspock100

Banned
Jan 10, 2015
119
0
0
43
amsterdam, netherlands
I suppose this is another hot subject. I observe that in all of life, kids almost universally lie about their age to do something that all the kids do anyway. they lie and say they x yrs old in order to get a job that requires a certain age. (child labor laws that mean well but sometimes are applied stupidly) they lie about age to smoke if they wish to smoke (with or without a friends ID) they come back from the war and lie about age to get a beer at the bar. when they are adolescents, they lie to get a date, in conversation they lie to obtain approval status (I am a big boy/girl now), they lie to get away with playing hooky from school. (oh, I am 16 officer)

I am not against all age restrictions. they are intended to protect the kids. but being applied unwisely they inadvertently teach the kids to hate the rules and lie to bypass them.

do you remember when the drinking age in some states was 18, and you had to be 21 to vote??? they reversed it. now you must be 21 to drink but 18 to vote (except certain jurisdictions such as California here the kids from 16 to 18 get 1/2 vote, and the kids 14 to 16 get 1/4 vote, to teach them responsibility and bring them into the scheme of things.

the u.s. is the only country in the world that does nor specify the age of adulthood. it is left to the states who have not set it, except Nebraska which states you are an adult at 19. how do you look a soldier in the face who just returned from fighting a war for 2 years and tell him he is not allowed to have a beer because he is not an adult yet. what I am doing here is calling attention to the over-regulation of things in the form of age restrictions, that are counter-productive and stupid.

I now live in Amsterdam, but grew up in southern California on the beach. years ago California used to be a cool place to live and everyone in the country liked it. then this nasty group of people I call "the regulators" got their hands on state government, and they started over regulating everything. now California is so over-regulated that nobody likes it any more, business is moving out, cost of living is going up, services are going down, crime is up, enjoyment is down. mostly all caused by too much regulation. stupid people love the phrase "the rules are the rules, you gotta have rules you know" well sometimes there are too many rules, too many age restrictions, too many regulations, and then people just say the hell with it.

the cure, or answer: start repealing a lot of laws and cancelling regulations and age restrictions. this is not uniquely my idea. it had been proposed by many presidents including teddy Roosevelt and JFK, who said congress should repeal 2 laws for every one they pass. so now then all you good parents. how do you feel about all the rules and regulations we impose on our kids???
 
Last edited:

cybele

PF Addict
Feb 27, 2012
3,655
0
36
53
Australia
Well I can certainly say that I am all for age restrictions in regards to child labour. Let's not start repealing those.

I can't comment on drinking and voting, those are both 18 here, I see no issue with that.

If you're going to be repealing things you need solid reason to repeal that particular thing, "Just do it" really isn't a good enough reason.

May I ask, which age restrictions in particular would you like to see bobspock, and why?
 

bobspock100

Banned
Jan 10, 2015
119
0
0
43
amsterdam, netherlands
to Cybele: I am in favor of restriction against hard or dangerous things like certain labor. that's probably about all I would endorse.

when the kids are about 13 and start thinking about going the different things in life that adults do, I do not believe we should make these things a crime until they get older. for example, no one wants to see the kids drink or smoke, but I do not believe in making criminals out of them if they do. and why not allow a 13 yr old boy to get a paper delivery route instead of telling him that he is not old enough. I remember when 13 yr olds did these things because nobody got the stupid idea to make it a crime, until later. all the stupid little things that the kids know are bullshit, and make the kids lie about their age, should be repealed.
 

cybele

PF Addict
Feb 27, 2012
3,655
0
36
53
Australia
May I ask where it is a crime for a 13yr old to have a paper delivery?

You seem to pose a lot of your issues at America, so, for that purpose:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_working_age#North_America[/URL]
None: deliver newspapers; perform in radio, television, movie, or theatrical productions; work in businesses owned by their parents (except in mining, manufacturing or hazardous jobs); and perform babysitting or perform minor chores around a private home
 

TabascoNatalie

PF Addict
Jun 1, 2009
2,099
0
0
40
England and somewhere else
Depends per country. In UK, 16yos can get into employment without too much trouble. A country where i come from, under18s are restricted from pretty much everything, except selling ice cream in summer. The restrictions apply mostly to employers so they don't bother with employing kids as its much less hassle to employ an adult.

As with kids going off to war, lets not forget it was a previous century and very different reality. I don't think today it is an issue of kids lying there age to get to Afghanistan.
 

bobspock100

Banned
Jan 10, 2015
119
0
0
43
amsterdam, netherlands
I can see now, that the age restriction thing is highly flexible according to the country in question at the moment. my overall position is simply that the very concept of age restrictions will lead to many kids lying about their age for whatever reason. I have also seen parents misrepresent their kids age for various reasons. ie: enrollment in kindergarten, signing up for summer camp, sports programs. and the kids are not stupid, they realize that mom lied, and so look what they have now learned. unfortunately all parents are not picture perfect role models either.
 

cybele

PF Addict
Feb 27, 2012
3,655
0
36
53
Australia
Don't you have to provide birth certificates for those things? I can't recall anything I have signed my kids up for that didn't require proof of identity, especially not things like kindergarten.
 

bobspock100

Banned
Jan 10, 2015
119
0
0
43
amsterdam, netherlands
actually yes, most things do sort of require some id of sorts, but very few people actually worry about it or demand it to be produced. it seems to be like an informal understanding that some rules have to be thwarted in order to make everything work out. we see this same principle in law. sometimes an issue will come before the courts and it will reflect that a certain law is a law of the politicians, and not a law of the people, and in such case, there is an excellent chance the court may void it. we have these rules and requirements in place, but they do not necessarily reflect the wishes of the people, so the people just kind of ignore them.
 

cybele

PF Addict
Feb 27, 2012
3,655
0
36
53
Australia
Australia must be a very weird place then, because here if you don't provide proof of identity for most of the things listed, you don't get to participate/enrol. It's not a case of "The people don't want to so they don't" it's "Don't do what is required and you miss out".

A lot of the things you are stating are absolutely bizarre to me.
 

bobspock100

Banned
Jan 10, 2015
119
0
0
43
amsterdam, netherlands
actually from what I have heard, Australia is a rather cool place that is highly desirable. here, we have always been aware that most other countries make a big deal out of ID, and proving this and that. we kind of joke a lot about it. in all of the old movies about Nazi Germany, there is the classic situation of "where are your papers" whenever someone got stopped by the gestapo. and we joke about this because of our freedoms where we don't worry so much about these things. of course for anything serious we must have some ID, but just not for all the normal minor functions in life. for example, a store is supposed to check for ID for age, for purchasing cigarettes. but when the store keeper knows you and/or recognizes you, they don't bother to check. when enrolling in school, if you don't have the required ID with you, rather than hold up the education for a kid, they often just tell you, "ok, just send us a copy when you get it" and that's the end of that. a bit informal and relaxed contrasted to other countries. we often think that other countries somewhat treat their people like cops handling suspects, always assuming the worst of everybody.
 

artmom

PF Fanatic
Feb 26, 2015
775
0
0
39
Canada
I'm assuming this is regarding 18 year olds lying about their age. the U.S. is so strange in that way. In Canada, once you're 18, you're an adult and can do anything a 20 something can do. We get so many American 18 -20 year olds coming over here just to go to the pubs and clubs.
On a serious note, I find your laws reckless. I've seen that show on MTV, College PD or something. All these college and university kids that are trying to make something for themselves, they go out and have fun and then they get arrested because they are young adults and had a few to many. No wonder so many alumni's have trouble finding positions in their choice careers.:veryconfused:
 

cybele

PF Addict
Feb 27, 2012
3,655
0
36
53
Australia
Seeing as this thread has been bumped up again, I can't stop giggling at Bobspock's idea that in the Netherlands you can just waltz into a school and not provide any proof of identity. I mean, the Netherlands require all citizens over the age of 14 to carry a national identity card, and it is illegal to not show one to law enforcement or a legal official upon request, but hey, let's just enrol kids into schools without any proof of age.

Nice little fantasy country he invented there.