Carried over suspension: should I fight it?...

Avianmosquito

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mom2many said:
You know labels aren't always a bad thing. They can actually help and open up a lot of resources they may not have existed before hand.
I disagree, and I always will. Nobody fits into one neat little profile, and a psychological label is just as dehumanizing as a racial epithet.

She doesn't need a psychologist, she needs a psychiatrist.
It's a petty distinction.

Thank God this wasn't my attitude or my son would be walking around in his manic, hallucination state. He has Bi-Polar, you do not have to tell me how it works. I KNOW how it works. I've been dealing with it for almost 3 years now, and yes you go back and forth, that's to make sure the treatment plan is right and doing what it needs to do. So do you never go to a doctor either?
Anecdotal evidence followed by strawman fallacy.

How do you pay? You do whatever you HAVE to do, to pay for it. If your situation is as dire as you say it is. She would qualify for CHIP, state medical, not ideal, but better then nothing. It has a high qualifying amount, no excuses. My son's meds alone cost over $1000 a month, not including appointments. While he qualifies for state aid, he is on our insurance. Sorry but your excuses are not valid, and that's all you have is excuses.
I've been denied all financial aid I've ever gone for, especially now that my grandparents are paying the bills. They claim that I qualify as my grandparents' dependent, and their income is too high for financial aid.

Also, do you even know what state I live in? Because I don't think I've ever said that.

Is there nobody in this girls life who gives a damn beyond having one excuse after another? Jesus it's like a bad B movie.
There are two adults in her life that care about her <I>at all</I>. Me and her mother. Neither of us is rolling in wealth and her mother is neurotic.

CHIP...CHIP...CHIP.
CHIP says "income may be too high to qualify."

My grandmother counts towards this because I am, technically, her dependent as long as she's paying all the bills. She works at Boeing. Her income alone is over $60,000/year. Apparently that's too much for what is presently a 4-person home. (My grandparents, Sam and I.) The Boeing medical plan (according to my grandmother) doesn't cover psych, but it does (thankfully) cover Sam's <I>real </I>medical expenses.

Also, this looks to be based out of Texas. I live in Washington.

Now let me make myself very clear here. We have offer suggestions, we have offered advice. You don't like it, move on, but I guarantee you will get the same advice somewhere else. However, be rude or snippy to another member and I will ban you.
I do what I feel is required to make my points 100% clear. This way works very well, but if you'd prefer I do it another way, then fine, I will. I still have no interest in any more misunderstandings. They're unpleasant and time consuming, and I think we've had enough of them already.
 
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mom2many

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Clearly all you want to do is be right. Be careful, once she steps to far over the line, or continues to show such reckless behavior at school, the state might get a call to step in.

No need to reply to me, this conversation is over.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2
 

cybele

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Silly M2M, don't you know that on a parenting forum we don't use anecdotal evidence in regards to our experiences with our own children? We much prefer sweeping generalisations and conspiracy theories.
 

singledad

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This girl has been abandoned by her birth parents once, twice by you, and it seems now also by her "adopted" mother. She has been raped, shot at, and repeatedly victimised. Has she received and help at all in processing all this trauma? In what form?

What, if anything, have you done to bring home the message that however valid her feelings may have been, her method of expressing them was extremely inappropriate? What efforts have you made to teach her how to express feeling of disgust, appropriately?
 

Avianmosquito

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singledad said:
This girl has been abandoned by her birth parents once, twice by you, and it seems now also by her "adopted" mother.
How do you figure she was "abandoned?" She was given to me by her birth parents, which isn't abandoning her. Her mother took her once and I gave her to her once, neither was abandoning her. And I really don't get the abandonment part about her mother. I mean really, she's with her mother right now, visiting for the weekend. Their relationship has recovered to the point where when her friends from that neighbourhood don't show she cuddles with mommy, playing games and watching movies. (Basically, the same things she does with me.) There isn't a shred of hostility left.

She has been raped, shot at, and repeatedly victimised.
Slight nitpick, she has been "shot", not "shot at".

Has she received and help at all in processing all this trauma? In what form?
Other than emotional support from her family? (And by family I mean really just me.) No. She used to talk to her school counsellor on a regular basis, before we moved out here, and even took to talking to her again when she moved back with her mother for a while, but that's it and other than a chance to vent at length to somebody new (which is actually really helpful) she didn't get anything out of that.

For the most part, she's just had me. My main service is open and honest dialogue. I don't lie to her. I haven't lied to her about anything even remotely important in her life, and I haven't even told her a white lie since she was 6. Those are some HUGE respect points. I talk to her, I answer her questions, I give her advice, that's it. I'm terrible at persuasion and not much of a therapist, but I do what I can. I'm still better at talking with people than I am barking orders, and I tend to stick to my strengths.

What, if anything, have you done to bring home the message that however valid her feelings may have been, her method of expressing them was extremely inappropriate? What efforts have you made to teach her how to express feeling of disgust, appropriately?
I did what I do best, I talked to her about it. The issue there is fairly simple: The only thing I can tell her to dissuade her from acting as she does is that she's going to make things worse for herself at that school, and it's clear that she really doesn't care. I'm fairly certain she is trying to get them to expel her. More specifically, I think she's trying to irritate them enough they'll expel her over a minor issue.

I am going to be quite plain on one thing:
I've really only talked about her issues here, and I know they make her seem like a little monster, but she isn't. Most of the time, she's the sweetest little girl you're ever going to meet. Not just with me, either. With her mother and her friends as well. She's even friendly with minor acquaintances and nicer than most to strangers. Her hostility is only to people who have earned her ire, and like her mother she's never learned to hide it.

Every time somebody she hates provokes her, this adds to her hatred of them and she reacts in a negative manner. Of course, this means the next time her reaction is even more explosive until she eventually does something massively disproportionate enough to calm her down or get her separated from them. (Punching the teacher, for instance, got her suspended for six weeks and moved to a different class. She doesn't even notice him any more.) It's also really, really hard for somebody she hates to redeem themselves in her eyes, and most people don't try. (Her mother is the only one to do so successfully, if my memory serves me right.)

If people don't do anything to anger her (normal things, don't hurt her, don't threaten her, don't insult her, don't do any of those things to anybody she cares about, don't be a bigot, etcetera) she's friendly and warm-hearted.

Her big problem now is that she's in a school where a score of people have inspired an acrimony I'd never seen in her before, and she has to interact with more than half of them on a daily basis.
 
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singledad

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Avianmosquito said:
How do you figure she was "abandoned?" She was given to me by her birth parents, which isn't abandoning her.
You're right, of course. Being given away by one's parents as if you're a dog they don't want anymore, isn't abandonment at all.

Avianmosquito said:
Her mother took her once and I gave her to her once, neither was abandoning her.
Yes. Having someone take you away from the person you regard as your parent, and having said person not lift a finger to get you back for over a year, despite you making it abundantly clear that you don't want to live with this next person, isn't abandonment. Your parent giving you back to this person a second time, isn't abandonment either.

Avianmosquito said:
And I really don't get the abandonment part about her mother. I mean really, she's with her mother right now, visiting for the weekend.
Ok, I apologize for misreading her relationship with her mother. I lost track a bit of all the role players, but evidently her mother, at least, hasn't abandoned her.

Avianmosquito said:
Slight nitpick, she has been "shot", not "shot at".
I apologize again. Of course the difference is very significant. :rolleyes:

Avianmosquito said:
Other than emotional support from her family? (And by family I mean really just me.) No.
That's what I thought.

And so this brings me back to your original question. The suspension. Obviously her reaction was inappropriate. Normally, I would suggest that you 1) remove her from the school altogether, and 2) get to the root of what is causing her issues and getting her the help she so obviously needs to help with that, but since you've taken both of those options off the table, the only thing that remains is to try to teach her the hard way that actions have consequences. And since she's not facing any consequences for her inappropriate retaliation at home, the suspension seems to be the only remaining option. Since she seems to actually want to go to school, maybe not being allowed to go could make her reconsider her actions. Probably not, but hey, there aren't any other options left. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry I can't help. And I'm even more sorry for your poor little girl. I shudder to think where her life is leading...
 

cybele

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Pretty sure that in colloquial terms, 'shot at' would be correct. It isn't the Queen's English, but technically acceptable phrasing.
 

mom2many

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Avianmosquito said:
CHIP says "income may be too high to qualify."

My grandmother counts towards this because I am, technically, her dependent as long as she's paying all the bills. She works at Boeing. Her income alone is over $60,000/year. Apparently that's too much for what is presently a 4-person home. (My grandparents, Sam and I.) The Boeing medical plan (according to my grandmother) doesn't cover psych, but it does (thankfully) cover Sam's <I>real </I>medical expenses.

Also, this looks to be based out of Texas. I live in Washington.
http://www.parenthelp123.org/resources/health-insurance-programs/childrens-health-insurance-resources[/url]

Your grandmother can make up to $70,000 a year and still qualify for a program with a family of four.
 
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Avianmosquito

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Please remove my location from your comment. I've gone to considerable lengths to avoid being recognized, I'd rather that not be ruined already.
 

Avianmosquito

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Thank you. I'd rather avoid a discussion with anybody else who lives here. Especially since I have cast the local school district in a rather unflattering light.
 

Avianmosquito

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singledad said:
You're right, of course. Being given away by one's parents as if you're a dog they don't want anymore, isn't abandonment at all.
They weren't taking care of her anyway. She was better off with literally anybody else. (I mean it. They took so little care of her that when I got her she had developed a UTI.)


Yes. Having someone take you away from the person you regard as your parent, and having said person not lift a finger to get you back for over a year, despite you making it abundantly clear that you don't want to live with this next person, isn't abandonment. Your parent giving you back to this person a second time, isn't abandonment either.
I wasn't exactly maintaining lines of communication. I didn't find out about any of this until I got her back.


Ok, I apologize for misreading her relationship with her mother. I lost track a bit of all the role players, but evidently her mother, <U>at least</U>, hasn't abandoned her.
I'm not sure about this, but at this point I feel vaguely insulted.

I apologize again. Of course the difference is very significant. :rolleyes:
There's a big difference between being shot and shot at. "Shot" implies "hit", "shot at" implies "miss".

That's what I thought.

And so this brings me back to your original question. The suspension. Obviously her reaction was inappropriate. Normally, I would suggest that you 1) remove her from the school altogether, and 2) get to the root of what is causing her issues and getting her the help she so obviously needs to help with that, but since you've taken both of those options off the table, the only thing that remains is to try to teach her the hard way that actions have consequences. And since she's not facing any consequences for her inappropriate retaliation at home, the suspension seems to be the only remaining option. Since she seems to actually want to go to school, maybe not being allowed to go could make her reconsider her actions. Probably not, but hey, there aren't any other options left. :rolleyes:
Really, I think she doesn't want to go, but she wants somebody to notice this going on with the power to do something about it. Basically, "If my teachers and peers torment me for this long, I don't want to leave until <I>somebody</I> gets in trouble for it."

I'm sorry I can't help. And I'm even more sorry for your poor little girl. I shudder to think where her life is leading...
It's presently leading to an online school, if I can help it. That way, she can still see her friends and won't have to deal with any of her enemies on a daily basis.
 
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singledad

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Avianmosquito said:
They weren't taking care of her anyway. She was better off with literally anybody else. (I mean it. They took so little care of her that when I got her she had developed a UTI.)

I wasn't exactly maintaining lines of communication. I didn't find out about any of this until I got her back.
Save the excuses. I was talking about how your daughter would have perceived it. The effect it has on her is determined by her perception, not by any objective rationalizations.

Avianmosquito said:
There's a big difference between being shot and shot at. "Shot" implies "hit", "shot at" implies "miss".
Well, thank you for giving me a lesson in the finer nuances of what just so happens to be my SECOND language. :rolleyes:

Avianmosquito said:
Really, I think she doesn't want to go, but she wants somebody to notice this going on with the power to do something about it. Basically, "If my teachers and peers torment me for this long, I don't want to leave until <I>somebody</I> gets in trouble for it."
Or maybe she just want somebody to notice that things really aren't just fine and dandy, and to help her make sense of everything that has happened, and is still happening to her?

Avianmosquito said:
It's presently leading to an online school, if I can help it. That way, she can still see her friends and won't have to deal with any of her enemies on a daily basis.
It is also leading towards a life in which she has neither the skills with which to process her past, nor the tools she will need to deal with a life in which, as a matter of course, most people she come into contact with won't give two hoots about her feelings...
 

Avianmosquito

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singledad said:
Save the excuses. I was talking about how your daughter would have perceived it. The effect it has on her is determined by her perception, not by any objective rationalizations.
She was ONE YEAR OLD when I got her. I'm pretty sure she doesn't remember it. When her mother took her the first time, that wasn't my choice, and I KNOW she blamed her mother for that. The second time you may well be right, except I'm pretty sure she blamed my mother for that.

Or maybe she just want somebody to notice that things really aren't just fine and dandy, and to help her make sense of everything that has happened, and is still happening to her?
Nobody thinks it's fine and dandy, so that wouldn't make any sense.

It is also leading towards a life in which she has neither the skills with which to process her past, nor the tools she will need to deal with a life in which, as a matter of course, most people she come into contact with won't give two hoots about her feelings...
There is nothing I am going to say that is going to convince you that she isn't completely doomed or even consider it for a moment. I think we're done here.
 
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parentastic

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I am sorry to be blunt here and I realize I haven't been around lately so apologies to the veterans if I am coming out strong - but have any of you considered that this whole story could be an elaborate troll pulling your leg? :confused:
 

Avianmosquito

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parentastic said:
I am sorry to be blunt here and I realize I haven't been around lately so apologies to the veterans if I am coming out strong - but have any of you considered that this whole story could be an elaborate troll pulling your leg? :confused:
Yes they have, and no I'm not. I really don't need this, please do not call me a troll again.
 

Father_0f_7

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I don't post here that often anymore simply because I haven't had the time. But I still come on, almost every day, to look at the recent posts.

I am making time to respond today because this thread, and your inability to REALLY help your daughter is making me furious. (Even thought I'm almost certain more than half of what you are saying isn't even slightly true)

The Boeing medical plan (according to my grandmother) doesn't cover psych, but it does (thankfully) cover Sam's <I>real </I>medical expenses.
Boeing has AMAZING medical benefits. OUTSTANDING. They cover mental health. The excuse of not having the coverage is invalid now.

From the Boeing website.
Medical Coverage


Boeing locations offer more than one option for medical coverage to allow employees to choose the plan that meets their needs. Medical plan offerings vary across the company, but all medical plans include:
<LIST>

  • <LI>
  • Coverage for certain preventive care services, such as annual physicals and well baby care, generally at little or no cost to the employee.</LI>
    <LI>
  • Coverage for doctor visits, surgery and hospital care.</LI>
    <LI>
  • Vision coverage for routine eye examinations, glasses and contacts.</LI>
    <LI>
  • Prescription drug coverage, including retail and mail-order options.</LI>
    <LI>
  • Coverage for mental health and substance abuse services.</LI>
</LIST>
 
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