Daughter 22 depressed overweight...

[Dagwood]

I need advice regarding my 22-year-old daughter.

1st the positive - She is a scholarship university student, whose been on the Dean's honor role list. She has a pretty face and would be quite physically attractive if she lost weight. (By North American standards, not my standards.)

However, she is severely depressed. She's about 5`6" and maybe weighs about 240 lbs. She has a fairly inactive social life and spends most of her time in her room studying, reading or on the computer. My daughter lost her dog last August which caused her major trauma. She was depressed and overweight before that but losing the dog seemed to put her over the edge. Getting another dog would not be wise because my children may be moved out in a couple more years and my wife and I are gone to long at work to take proper care of an animal.

She's been seeing a psychologist or about 4 months. My wife and I have insurance to cover these bill initially but that has run out. The cost for this is about $800 per month and we've covered the last month.

My wife and I earn middle income salaries. We can afford this without going into the poor-house but it will mean no vacations and no savings. My daughter seems to feel that this psychologist is helping and wants to continue seeing her. My concern is that after 4 months I haven't seen my daughter make any significant life-style changes. She doesn't seem to be particularly watching her diet, she has a gym membership that she uses perhaps 2 or 3 times per month and she hasn't made an effort to push her boundaries as far as joining social or other activities.

I've asked if my daughter could pay for half the sessions but but my wife criticizes that "Everything comes down to money" with me. I should mention that we fully cover my daughter's room and board, university books and the other half of tuition that isn't covered by scholarships. She also has the use of one of our vehicles when she needs it. My daughter has a very good summer job that pays $22 per hour. However, she is saving to cover her Masters degree because my wife and I only agreed to cover the 1st degree. My daughter says that she cannot afford the sessions if she has to pay half. My wife is also overweight and I cannot bring up the subject of my daughter's weight without her taking it as a criticism of her as well. Both my wife and my daughter are hypersensitive to criticism to begin with and any mention of weight or fitness seems to be "off the table".

I am deeply concerned about my daughter but I also feel that we've sacrificed a lot to provide post-secondary education. I wasn't expecting an additional bill for $800 per month. I'm also at the stage of my life that I want to have a little bit of enjoyment in life and vacations are a big part of that. Also as much as my daughter says this person is helping, I have to wonder how much when I don't see any major lifestyle changes.

Any advice? Am I being overly concerned about money? Or perhaps is there a point where helping crosses over into enabling? Should we just pay the bill? What would you do? Does anyone have any experience encouraging a family member to lose weight?

 

[IADad]

Yeah, I think the first thing is to get over not having vacations. No one ever promised you vacations and it does seem a bit like it's coming down to money. I don't doubt that you are concerned about your daughter and I think you have valid concerns both about the finances and her progress, but honestly, bringing up the loss of vacation does seem petty in light of the serious situation.

So, on her condition. Are you privy to any of the counseling progress? Perhaps if you daughter felt that you were solely invested in her (and not just financially) she would allow you information from counseling. I guess the things I'd want to know as a parent, or anyone in her life trying to help her, would be:

How does she feel about her weight as it relates to her physical health?

What are the benchmarks of success as it relates to progress - ok she feels like counseling is doing her good - what things are going to be accomplished in the next week/month, quarter to mark success?

It makes sense that she wouldn't watch her diet if either she doesn't perceive it as a problem, or she's having trouble with eating and possibly related to emmotional issues. It sounds like she lives at home with you - what things are you doing to eat healthfully as a family?

I'm obese (hopefully for only another week or so, as I drop to merely "Overweight" as defined by BMI scale - It's something I've worked on and failed a couple of times - it's not easy, and it's even more difficult to do alone. My son is overweight and my wife is in the same boat as I, so, it's really become our family activity, to eat well together - to track ALL our food - and to exercise together. IMHO - you can't do anything about her eating or exercise until you know she is concerned and wants your help. Then, I don't know that she needs a gym membership - she needs to go for a walk...with you? with a friend? But more importantly she needs to take charge of her eating for herself. The fine folks at the tracking app I use practice a mantra of "weightloss happens in the kitchen, fitness happens in the gym."

I think if you stop focusing on the bill for a while - sit down face to face with her, and get what she needs from you, emotionally and supportively, it will go a long way toward helping her take noticeable steps forward - then praise and celebrate them together.

BTW, I agree about not replacing the dog - its loss was likely the straw that broke the camel's back, not the cause of her depression. Getting another would merely be a band aid.

 

[cybele]

These things take time, 4 months is not long at all and to expect major lifestyle changes in 4 months is to soon.

The weight loss is her choice to make. Sometimes when you are dealing with multiple problems you have prioritise them, there may be things that are much more important than her weight for her to deal with right now, let it come in her own time.

As for money, what is worth more, your daughter's long term mental health or a holiday? I don't see how helping her out with her psychologist bills are enabling her, because there is nothing to enable here, she is seeking help.

 

[Dagwood]

Thank you both for the advice. I guess I'm starting to wonder if us always being a "crutch" for my daughter is part of the problem more than part of the solution. She has no expenses and very little responsibility other than university homework. I know that my wife and I had things much harder and we were much happier in young adulthood. I had to put myself through college and got no help whatsoever from my parents. Sometimes I wonder if seeing this councilor is just easier than my daughter going out of her comfort zone to make new social contacts.

The money is also a bit of an issue. I have one other daughter to put through university and if we can't save it is going to be difficult. As well, retirement is coming within the next 10 years (and may be forced sooner due to a health issue) so my wife and I should be considering that as well. As I was said, I already thought we were doing quite well by funding university as I know of much wealthier families who expect their children to pay most of the costs. I didn't budget for an additional bill of this magnitude.

Right now we are considering if there are less expensive options for counseling. Regarding the weight issue, I guess all that I can do is try to ensure that healthy meals are prepared. I try not to criticize my daughter as I think that would backfire. However it would be nice to see her make a little bit of effort in this regard. It doesn't seem to be much of a concern for her.

 

[IADad]

Absolutely do not criticize! People rarely change from being hurt by the people who love them. If you occasionally want to have heart to heart conversations about health and happiness, with the focus on "I so much want you to be happy and healthy, how can I help? (which can lead to working together toward a goal; i.e. If she tells you she'd be happier weighing less, then work together with her, so that she can track food and you can provide healthy options and be there for support.) But it does you little good to raise concern in areas where she has no concern. I would be very cautious about making big changes so early into this counselling effort. You don't expect your retirement investments to pay-off immediately - your investments in your child's mental and emotional health should be given the opportunity to grow as well. That said, I still don't get a feel for is you're privy to any of her counseling - if she tells you anything or has granted you access to her counselor, knowing what's going on, what's the plan and the progress could go a long way to helping you see your role as more than just the cash cow. Have you expressed an interest in taking a more active role? She may not grant it, and that may be perfectly valid, but it's a consideration.

 

[singledad]

First off - as others have said, counselling is a slow process. Depending on the rout cause of her issues, it could take anything from a few months to several years. Think about it this way - she took 22 years to descend to where she is. Could you really expect to reverse the process in only 4 months?

Real life isn't like a movie, where a psychologist says something profound, and everything changes in an instant.

She will probably start making small changes in time, and build on them until she had turned her life around. She may never be slim - some people just don't think it important enough, and as long as she isn't obese and at risk of health complications, that's her business. She may never be a social butterfly - some people are just naturally introverted. All you can expect is that she would live a more healthy, balanced life once she has conquered her depression, but that will not happen quickly.

Thank you both for the advice. I guess I'm starting to wonder if us always being a "crutch" for my daughter is part of the problem more than part of the solution.

You seem to be very concerned about "enabling"... but consider this - When people use the word "enable", it means to enable some sort of behaviour. Depression is not a behaviour, it is a condition. You can't "enable" derpression any more than you can "enable" diabetes. She is studying - honours roll. She is working with a therapist.These are good things. You aren't "enabling" or "being a crutch" - you are supporting her in her effort to get better.

Right now we are considering if there are less expensive options for counseling.

This could a solution, but a word of caution - if she has made progress with her current therapist, changing to another one could set her back. Counselling requires that the patient has complete trust in the therapist, that the therapist has a good understanding of the patient's past life and thought processes, and also a good level of personal compatibility. Starting with another therapist would mean establishing trust all over again, get to know each other again - laying the groundwork - and worst of all, the new therapist might just no work for her like the current one does. She is very lucky to have found someone who can help her at the first try - that is actually very rare. I wouldn't risk losing that.

In short - holidays can wait. The longer you daughter stays in her state of depression, the harder it will be for her to recover.

 

[Dagwood]

I don't criticize my daughter about her weight. As I said, she is too sensitive to bring it up.

I would like to know, are you all either paying or planing to pay the entire bill for your children's university, books and room and board? Except for the portion covered by scholarships (which is about half the tuition), I have been paying that for my daughter. She also has the use of our vehicle at no expense to her. My daughter is, after all, an adult and if you listen to the advice of someone like Dr. Phil regarding similar situations, we are already doing more than we probably should. Remember, as well that my daughter is earning pretty good money for 4 months out of the year and has no expenses. She will not be sacrificing her vacation as she will be going to England in 2 weeks. (She is paying for this herself.) I am supportive of this trip because I think that getting away on her own for a while will do her good.

I should make it clear, even though I realize that I'm sounding negative, that my daughter is a good kid and I am very proud of her academic achievements. I'm just trying to paint the picture from my perspective. Perhaps I'm a little old school but I just think she needs to put a little effort into other areas of her life in addition to academics.

 

[cybele]

I think you need to get off the topic of money. It doesn't matter who on this forum is paying for or planning on paying for certain things. What matters is your daughter's mental health.

Ultimately, yes, it is your money to make decisions with. Is your daughter's health worth it to you?

 

[Dagwood]

I think you need to get off the topic of money. It doesn't matter who on this forum is paying for or planning on paying for certain things. What matters is your daughter's mental health.

Ultimately, yes, it is your money to make decisions with. Is your daughter's health worth it to you?

The reason I ask, is that my wife and I have done without a lot of restaurant meals and other things throughout the years to provide for university. I know very few other parents who have done that. If many of you are not making those kind of sacrifices then frankly it seems a little hypocritical to tell me that I'm focusing too much on money.

Money is a big part of the equation. I have another daughter to put through university and it won't be fair to her if I can't provide for her as well. We also have another year of university to fund for my older daughter. And even if money wasn't an issue there is the grander question of the level of independence an adult child should strive to achieve. Obviously my daughter does not feel that these counseling sessions are worth it enough to pay half when she can has the money to do so. Do parents continue paying for anything an adult child requires when they have the means to do it themselves?

 

[cybele]

You said your daughter works for 4 months a year, that's hardly sufficient money to support oneself adequately.

If it's that important to you, university is government subsidised here, so no, I do not have to pay for it, no where near to the extent you would have to. I do, however, financially support my daughter and her partner by having them live with us, we do not take any money from them. And yes I do cover my daughter's medical bills, because I know she doesn't make enough money while studying to afford the specialist she requires for the condition she has.

But then, when my husband was in hospital recently his mother was hovering around making sure we could afford his surgery, and if we couldn't, we know she would have offered us money (actually she did, but we didn't need it), but that's the kind of family I have. Eating out and going away are meaningless if someone isn't well and isn't being helped. My family's health, both physical and mental always, 100% of the time comes before me having extra pleasures, and you don't age out of that.

But that's how my family function.

I will ask the question a third time, you have avoided it the first two times I have asked it, what is more important to you, your daughter's mental health, or a vacation?

 

[Dagwood]

I will ask the question a third time, you have avoided it the first two times I have asked it, what is more important to you, your daughter's mental health, or a vacation?

If I had to answer only that question, I would of course say my daughter's mental health is more important. But as I mentioned there is more at stake and I don't consider those two things to be the only aspects of the problem. Firstly, there is my younger daughter's education. Secondly, vacations for our family tend to be some of the most memorable and enjoyable times of our lives - so there is there is the well being of the family in general to consider - including myself and my own mental health. And even though my wife seems to want to pay, she is close to burn out at work. My wife is the type who will never do anything for herself - she needs a vacation.

And you may not know this since university seems covered in your country, but it is rather rare for parents to pay for all the tuition. Many families that are much wealthier than ours expect the students to pay a good part, if not all the tuition bill. Most students rack up huge student loan bills. However, I've happily made sacrifices so that my daughter can go to university and not take on debt. I just didn't budget on this extra bill and it is a strain on our finances.

You said your daughter works for 4 months a year, that's hardly sufficient money to support oneself adequately.

As I mentioned, my daughter does not have to support herself. We pay for everything except clothing. (And I even suspect that my wife buys most of her clothing.) All of what she earns is for discretionary spending and saving. My daughter's salary during those 4 months is very good and she earns more per hour than many people twice her age. She is a good saver and she likely has more in the bank than many people on this forum. She has the means to pay half but it does not appear worth it to her to do so. So her counseling does not necessarily hinge on the rest of the family sacrificing education and vacations.

 

[singledad]

I would like to know, are you all either paying or planing to pay the entire bill for your children's university, books and room and board?

Yes, I am planning to do exactly that. (If they choose to go to university). I am already investing money for that purpose. I would not want my children to start life under a burden of study debts. And tertiary education is extremely expensive here.

Of course, I would expect them to make an effort, and won't keep paying for repeating failed courses, but it doesn't sound like you have any problems in that regard.

Dr. Phil

Phil is only technically a doctor. He lost his license to practice psychiatry for a good reason. His brand of pop-psychology and his "snap our of it" attitude towards people who struggle with emotional issues is, frankly, disgusting. Sure, hardship does make us stronger, and taking charge of their own lives is good for children, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with parents supporting their kids and giving them a decent start in life. I don't believe that my financial responsibility towards my children will end when they reach 18 - it will end when they start earning enough money to support themselves.

Remember, as well that my daughter is earning pretty good money for 4 months out of the year and has no expenses.

I thought you said she is saving up to pay for her masters degree? If it was my daughter who showed that much dedication towards her studies (and by proxy, her future), I would be an extremely proud dad, and would do everything in my power to support her.

Obviously my daughter does not feel that these counseling sessions are worth it enough to pay half when she can has the money to do so.

Does she? Again -

However, she is saving to cover her Masters degree because my wife and I only agreed to cover the 1st degree. My daughter says that she cannot afford the sessions if she has to pay half.

Are you saying that isn't true? Or are you expecting her to chose between her mental health and her future?

Eating out and going away are meaningless if someone isn't well and isn't being helped. My family's health, both physical and mental always, 100% of the time comes before me having extra pleasures, and you don't age out of that.

But that's how my family function.

That is also how my family functions. Money isn't as important as family. Nothing is. And note - by family I don't mean all relatives, but that is another discussion altogether.

 

[Dagwood]

Thank you for the responses. Part of the way I work this out is by challenging the ideas presented so hopefully some of you are not too sensitive to that.

I think that one thing I either may not be expressing clearly or perhaps we just have a different philosophy; is that I would like to see more of a commitment on the part of my eldest daughter either in regards to some of the cost or to perhaps making more of an effort to make healthier lifestyle choices.

For example, my younger daughter wanted to join a fitness center but the cost was fairly expensive and since we already were paying for hockey and music lessons we told her we couldn't afford it. (It was actually my wife who was the most adamant about this on this occasion.) My younger daughter decided that this was so important to her that she was willing to use her savings that she was putting away to buy a bass guitar and to work extra babysitting to make up the cost. Once I saw this level of commitment I convinced my wife to pay half. We ended up splurging a bit and with a contribution from the grandparents got her the bass guitar she wanted for Christmas. So my younger daughter got everything she wanted just by showing some initiative.

If my older daughter decided this counseling was so important to her that she was willing to carry some of the cost, I suspect I would end up paying the whole shot.

 

[cybele]

So you can pay for it but she has to prove to you that she wants it enough? Sorry, but that's a dangerous game to play when discussing your child's mental health.

 

[Dagwood]

A person can't change without wanting it enough.

 

[singledad]

If my older daughter decided this counseling was so important to her that she was willing to carry some of the cost, I suspect I would end up paying the whole shot.

I don't think you quite understand the seriousness of depression. I say that because it is clear that you don't consider therapy as important. To you, it is something you pay for because your daughter wants it, not because she needs it, and if it weren't important to her, you'd be perfectly happy for her to stop going.

Here'e the thing, though - depression is a very serious mental illness. It is not something you can snap out of, or get rid of simply by making an effort to get out of your comfort zone. Actually, the last statement is extremely ironic, given that there is nothing comfortable about the way a person suffering from depression isolates themselves...

In short, if you really understood the impact depression has on one's life, you would pay for counseling because it is import to <U>you</U>. Whether or not it is important to you daughter, especially in her present state of mind, would not matter to you.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not blaming you. I'm simply calling it as I perceive it from your posts. I hope that perhaps you will go away and think about it, perhaps get hold of some reading material from credible sources (as opposed to celebrity pop-psychologists like "Dr" Phil) and re-think your attitude towards depression and therapy in general. Perhaps then it would be easier for you to know what you should do about the financial side of things.

 

[Dagwood]

I don't know much about the sessions but one thing my daughter has shared is that analyst has diagnosed that there is no chemical imbalance or physical problem for the depression. My daughter has to start making lifestyle and behavioral changes in order to break the current pattern. I guess I'm frustrated by the lack of progress in this regard after 4 months. It comes down to wanting to see an effort.

 

[singledad]

I don't know much about the sessions but one thing my daughter has shared is that analyst has diagnosed that there is no chemical imbalance or physical problem for the depression.

Sure. Chemical imbalance is one of the less common causes of depression. Mostly, it is related to life experiences and long-term learned perceptions/thought processes. That does not make it ANY less real or any less serious. Or any easier to overcome.

My daughter has to start making lifestyle and behavioral changes in order to break the current pattern.

That's simply not how depression works. Behavioural changes is one of the last steps in overcoming depression, not one of the first. But I can't explain depression to you on an internet forum. You'll have to go read some books. Perhaps book a session with the therapist, and ask her to help you understand the disorder in general. Obviously she won't be allowed to tell you what your daughter shared with her, but that need not stop her from helping you understand what your daughter is going through.

All I'm trying to say is swallow your frustration and try to be more supportive and less focused on money. You're not dealing with problematic behaviour in your daughter - you're dealing with mental illness, chemical or not.

 

[Dagwood]

I know what I'm about to say will sound defensive, but I seem to be portrayed as being overly concerned about money. I've made several sacrifices over the years to provide for my children. I've put away money for their education rather than spend it on myself. Last year we sent both daughters on a trip to Disneyland. We splurged to buy a very expensive camera for my daughter for Christmas for her upcoming trip to England. We are not wealthy but earn very average salaries. In fact I currently earn a below average salary for my age group as I was unemployed for 2 years and had to take a job at a fairly junior level. So I think I've provided very well for my family. Even my current concern about money stems from the fact that I consider it my responsibility to provide for the family as a unit.

Both my wife and I grew up in families with constant money problems and we wanted our children to have the opportunities that never never had. However, despite what I consider several advantages my daughter and eldest son appear to have motivation and self-esteem issues. I often see a similar scenario with other families who seem very well-adjusted and where the kids have almost no financial obligations. I just can't help wonder if this lack of motivation and self-esteem might be related to us doing too much for our children them rather than too little.

 

[IADad]

Fair enough, but money is only one thing and in comparison to other issues here, it's my opinion that it should be a lesser consideration. You are to be commended for the effort and forethought you've put forward, however, I'd suggest that priorities must sometimes shift. Let's say your roof sustains damage, and you can spend 10,000 to fix it now or risk your entire house failing and collapsing. Now, you're saving for retirement, so you don't really have the money to commit to the repair. What do you do?

I'm just suggesting you be a little more flexible with your financial plans, devote you energy to getting your daughter well, then re-focus.

If you fear that your daughter isn't emmotionally invested in advancing her own life and lifestyle, then it's probably a problem that's been growing for some time. It's not something the death of the dog created. So, it's not likely that counselling can fix it in a few short weeks. or you taking a stern "You gotta pitch in" stance is going to suddenly fix it. It's going to have to be part of a larger comprehensive plan. Just because you can see the problem, doesn't mean it's necessarily correct or that anyone else wants to play along with your solution, correct? You have some work collectively on finding what the real problems are and how you're going to approach fixing them.