Have the tables really turned?...

[MomoJA]

When I was in kindergarten 40+ years ago, the boys were not at all interested in girls. It was "girl germs" or "girl cooties" all around. We girls were interested in boys as much as 5yo girls can be interested, and we even used to play catch and kiss. However, at my daughter's pre-k, the boys are telling girls, "You are my girlfriend" and twice my daughter has confided that so-and-so has tried to kiss her and "it's gross."
I'm not offended that these little boys have tried to kiss my child, but I do now understand why this is a problem and how we might have come to the ridiculous level of "zero tolerance" for these things as we have in schools in America, witnessed by the crazy stories of 5yos being suspended for just this. I have to teach my daughter her own "ground rules" for how she will be treated and what she should accept from boys starting as young as possible. If I don't start now, the "ground rules" will be mine and not hers.

It's a difficult balance as well. I know that I always had a hard time with unwanted advances as an adult because I wanted to be polite at the same time I wanted them to stop. I seemed to send mixed signals as a result. I want to teach my daughter to send very clear signals and to be confident in them, but I don't want the rejected child to become the laughing stock, and one of these little boys seems to have other issues that might make him the joke of the class.

Due to my childhood experience, though, I did not think I'd be facing this so soon. Have things really changed so much or was this/is this just the trend in these particular schools?

 

[JBKB3]

Out 10 yr old was not like that at that age, however our 3 yr old came home earlier this year and said she had kissed a boy in her class. She is a very loving child who hugs and kisses her friends/family before she/they leave so I know it has nothing to do with boyfriend/girlfriend type stuff. We do know that in the not too distant future we will have to explain that she can't kiss on anyone/everyone but for right now it's cute.

 

[IADad]

hmmm, I do notice a lot of coupling talk going on. I'm not aware of any kissing attempts as DS2s preschool, but then again, maybe what happens on the playground, stays on the playground...

It seems to me that the girls are the more agressive in this area at our school, so it's an interesting question you raise.

I'm not so sure about the whole sending clear signals thing. I get where you are coming from and it's an admirable pursuit to attempt to clarify these roles for the outset, but can you really mess with their interpersonal development that much? I mean isn't part of the journey to and through adolescence navigating your way through "what do I want?" "what do they want?' and "what should I do?" Sure, we help our kids develop their moral compass and it's a great lesson if we can get kids to take a look at themselves as others see them. I think that's a great exercise even for adults to take on. But I guess I'd be cautious about placing too much weight on this subject. I don't think you want her to become self consious for fear that someone might interpret what she does or how she looks in a way that she didn't intend.

 

[MomoJA]

I think I get what you are saying, IADad, but I'm still concerned about the subject. It's not something I'm terribly concerned about now, but I think the parents of girls have to have a different perspective on some things than the parents of boys.

The first time she told me about a boy trying to kiss her, she had been thinking about it for a while. It was on the way to school and she had been silent. At first I just laughed to myself. But it got me thinking and later reflecting on her demeanor when she told me, I wondered if it had been bothering her.

My daughter is a follower. She also attracts a lot of attention and as a result there is no getting around it, she is going to put some of her worth in her looks.

The pressures girls face these days to become intimately active on some level is horrific. I hear stories all the time about girls, young girls, doing tragic things with boys.

I worry that at some point when she is facing puberty and her hormones blow every imagined snub out of proportion and make her insecure, she may, as many girls before her have done, seek validation in the attentions of the opposite sex. If starting in pre-k she doesn't feel the absolute power over what happens to her own body with regard to the unwanted kisses of a little boy, I fear she won't find the strength to stand up against the pressures of a teenage boy trying to get what he can.

So I want to tell her to put her foot down and firmly say, "I don't want you to kiss me! Leave me alone." But the first little boy she told me about has other issues that make him the "gross" boy in the class. Until now I've been counseling her to be tolerant of him. To be kind and to stand up against anyone else who tries to make fun of him. So that's my dilemma.

I also always thought girls were the aggressors at this age, so I wondered, when she starts at a different school next year, if this will be an issue, or if this is unique to her current school. The first week in the fall, one afternoon I saw a boy who must have been in kindergarten leading a little girl in pre-k to a bench, sitting her on it, and stroking her hair and whispering in her ear. It frightened me a bit.

 

[NancyM]

Interesting subject MJ

When my son was in Kindergarten (he started at 4 yrs ) he fell in "love" with this beautiful little blond haired girl. He just was in awe of her.

Just around that same time there was a little boy in the news, who got in trouble for kissing a little girl I believe they were around 5/6 yrs old. I believe he got in serious trouble, suspended and I think even charged with something criminal. It was ridiculous.

I remember I kind of panicked and told my son under no circumstances should he kiss or touch her or any girl at all. I felt terrible making him him feel that thinking that way about a girl was bad, but I had to act fast, since I knew his little heart was pitter- pattering, and I know how this stuff can get out of hand especially if the little girl goes home and mentions that a boy kissed her or 'touched' her. How the parents would most likely think the worse, It just doesn't turn out good any way you look at it.

Anyway a few days later he told me that they were standing on line waiting to go onto the playground and Kristen was standing in front of him. He said "I kissed her mom, but don't worry because I just kissed the back of her head, she never even knew it so she can't tell on me and get me arrested"

After I stopped laughing (on the inside) I realized how pathetic that was, and I just hope today he doesn't remember how his mother screwed up his first kiss. lol

Obviously I didn't make myself 'CLEAR' I should have explained about respecting other people's personal rights, and for him not to cross the touching boundries... but instead he figured it was still ok for him to kiss her, as long as he didn't get caught, so I understand what you mean MJ about making ourselves more clear with our young kids.

But as a mother of a boy I had the same fear. I always told him that he should be very thoughtful when he's around girls, careful what he says, and how he acts and my big thing was that he shouldn't be alone with a girl when they were a certain age. (IMO through middle school)

My fear was that when the child was telling her parents how the party went, or the what ever, the parents may misconstrued what she says, turn it into something that didn't happen.

Even as he got older in his teen years I reminded him to be careful when with girls, some times girls tell untrue stories as well, especially to their friends. That made up story may get to a teacher and than to the parents and again my son (or the boy) will find himself in trouble for something he never did.

I believe we have to be honest with our young children. And I think The right time is when they do enter school because they are out of our sites, and unfortunately at the mercy of the big cruel world.

Both boys and girls should be taught to tell the truth first of all. Girls need to be told they shouldn't be alone with any boy until they're a certain age, Boys need to be told the same, and of course both should be told to never go along with the 'crowed' when they know someone is being hurt or afraid, or being made fun of. These are just basic sensible instructions they should have been taught since they were born.

I guess my point is that parents of boys have this same dilemma as parents of girls just in reverse.

However if I was the parent of a girl, I would probably be a major wreck. Dating, driving, going away to college, OMG! just too scary.

 

[MomoJA]

Nancy,

I understand what you are saying, and though it wasn't actually for the reasons you are describing, I did also consider how the boy's parents would feel if my daughter said something like, "My daddy will be angry at any boy who tries to kiss me," which is one of the solutions that briefly flashed through my mind, and that added to my dilemma.

I remember that case you mention about the boy who was suspended in K or 1st grade. I didn't have children at the time but I was flabbergasted, and I still am at the ridiculousness of that reaction. That's zero tolerance.

But now, being the mother of a 5 yo girl in an age when it is not unusual to find 12 yos who are sexually active, I understand how we ended up with zero tolerance. I don't agree with it, and I would never blame the 5 yo boy for trying to kiss my child. It's not about him at all, as far as I'm concerned. He is no more culpable than I was for playing catch and kiss when I was in K. And I can understand his parents being upset if my child were to tell the teacher and he were to get into trouble for something that I know was completely innocent.

Yet, if I tell my child it is no big deal; it's okay for him to kiss her; or even though she really doesn't want him to kiss her she shouldn't worry about it too much, I'm afraid I'm sending the wrong signal and setting things up for a future when I can't really turn back the tide. And that just blows my mind.

 

[NancyM]

I do understand that Momoja,
and I agree with you that you would be sending her the wrong message if you told her those things.

It's really hard when they're that young, I remember the fine line and I never really knew what to say to be honest. Because like you said if you say it the wrong way the child becomes afraid of everything and if you act like it's not a big deal the child gets mixed messages as well.

I was an older mother 33, when I had Max, and my main concern was pedophiles grabbing him, but today it's true that you have to be weary of other children as well. Unfortunatly little girls are always going to be the fun/play targart for little boys. lol in a normal way but sometimes things will get out of hand.

I think it's most important just to stress to our babies, that there are good touches and touches that make us feel embarrassed or uncomfortable. And if she feels bad about the way someone touches her, it's ok for her to say stop it or NO and than tell a grown up.

Even though this is confusing for little children as well, at least they feel they have a little control what's happening, Better than feeling helpless I think.


I

 

[momtoallkids]

My daughter is 7 and has had the same "boyfriend" since pre-school. they even went to a valentines day dance together this year. at that age its harmless though some little ones are really agressive in that area to like a scary point. The biggest thing is to make sure your kids know the difference between good touches and bad ones and how to react to bad ones. also, make sure that your children know that they dont have to be affraid to talk to you about anything from a young age.

 

[IADad]

MomoJA I think you're right to teach her to know what she wants and stand up for herself. Just understand that male "aggression" is not that much more prevalaent (as far as I can tell) than it ever was. Sure there are going to be those boys who are naturally more agressive, but I think most of them are interested, but kind of afraid of girls. I don't think there's the "Cooties" kind of view anymore, they seen teen and tween tv and get a picture that they are supposed to pair up, althought "why" seems to be unasked.

I'm raising my boys to be respectful, as Nancy said. Be respectful to people and girls are people too - always. I hope that's amantra I can instill into and through teen years.

It's tough, I never dated much in HS or college, and I think I missed out on a lot. I was soooo serious, I missued out on the "Sure, let's go out on a date." kind of casual dating and I think it did me a diservice. So, I want my boys to have fun, to have friends, but remember when it comes to relationships - to be honest and be respectful - always. Anything done coersively is wrong and anything you need to do behind anybody's back is wrong (i.e. cheating in a relationship, not that I expect them to come notify me when they are going to have sex...that's not the point.)

Also, since when did dances start in Elementary school? I remember Jr High, but not earlier...My son's elementary held a dance, and I was like "Really?" DS1 didn't want to go, so I wasn't going to push.

ALSO - I assisted with their class valentine's party and on the way home from school that day I heard a lot of the "who likes whom" walk. And a couple things caught my brain - he kind of likes one girl, I'm not really sure why, (but then again, who ever is?) and he made the comment that her mom "isn't bad" when we were talking about future mother in laws relative one mom who's a real piece of work..(okay, this is sounding bad, but it was really way more innocent discussion that it's sounding) anyway, I thought that was an odd comment, but then when talking about one girl he said "she's really uglied up since kindergarten" so we had to stop and put on the brakes and talk about that, reminding him that this is aperson he's talking about, turning the tables etc...
anyway, that's the elementary male scene here...