I wish I could get through to her......

[Dadu2004]

I am so frustrated, upset, angry, and depressed right now....

Delaney is soooo smart....outside of school. She's so articulate, has an amazing vocabulary, and can convey understanding of things far higher than her age should reflect. But at school, she doesn't care. She won't take her time. She wants to be the first one done, and gets sloppy. We (and the teacher) have tried everything we can think of to get through to her to try her best. She just doesn't care.

So, the teacher said today that she feels it would be best for Delaney to repeat the 2nd grade.

I can't even convey my feelings right now.

 

[GavinH]

that is awful news Dadu2007. Repeating a grade can have such a devastating long term affect on a child. I am at a loss as to what to suggest but there is still a good bit of time left in the school year to show a change.

 

[bssage]

We (and the teacher) have tried everything we can think of

Rather than suggest things that you have tried. What specifically have you tried?

I am sure you are only considering "holding back" as a last resort. But what makes the teacher think that would do any good if they have not identified the issue?

I might have some suggestions because as you know DS has been a struggle at times. Also because of DD I have been exposed to many "outside the box" teaching strategies.

The first and most fundamental things to look at are: Sleep, Diet, and Exercise. I would guess you pay attention to these anyway. But it has been my experience that they are closely tied to kids (and my) ability to focus in class.

I probably have a slug of other suggestions. But want to know what you have tried to date.

 

[Dadu2004]

Rather than suggest things that you have tried. What specifically have you tried?

<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• Teacher moved her desk by her desk, away from her friends.</LI>
  <LI>
• Kept in during recess</LI>
  <LI>
• Made a class leader</LI>
  <LI>
• Gave extra responsibilities</LI>
  <LI>
• Gave less responsibilities</LI>
  <LI>
• Been in counseling</LI>
  <LI>
• Extra at home practice</LI>
  <LI>
• Behavior charts</LI>
  <LI>
• Given extra time to complete assignments/tests</LI>
  <LI>
• Rewards for doing well</LI>
  <LI>
• Punishment for not trying her best</LI>
  <LI>
• And a slew of other crap that I can't think of right now</LI>

</LIST>

 

[Incogneato]

Has she said why she wants to be the first one done?

Can you expand a bit on her not caring? Does she actually say she doesn't care or is that your own interpretation of her actions?

 

[Dadu2004]

She has told us that she doesn't care...plus her actions conveyed by her teacher tells us that as well. You can tell in her writing that she constantly slops through work...she doesn't even pay a bit of effort to writing her name. It looks as if a kindergartner is writing.

At home, when we get her to focus, she writes beautifully...she can do her spelling...she can do her math. At school, she's a different child.

 

[Mom2all]

By chance did she start school on the younger side? Like, was she closer to 5 instead of 6 when she started?

 

[mom2many]

By chinace did she start school on the younger side? Like, was she closer to 5 instead of 6 when she started?

I was wondering the same thing..it's a good point and something that shouldn't be discounted.

She has told us that she doesn't care...plus her actions conveyed by her teacher tells us that as well. You can tell in her writing that she constantly slops through work...she doesn't even pay a bit of effort to writing her name. It looks as if a kindergartner is writing.

At home, when we get her to focus, she writes beautifully...she can do her spelling...she can do her math. At school, she's a different child.

So we do not have a problem academically persay. It sounds like what you have is a focus issue. I'm gonna throw this out there but have you thought of ADD, no hyper activity just a hard time staying focused and on task. That is how I describe Cole, smart as heck, but staying on task is a job and usually requires me to stay on him constantly.

A few tricks that worked with him in school, assignments blocked off. Meaning, the teacher took a manilla (sp?) envelope, divided it into 1/3 and Cole only had to focus on one section at a time (the whole paper done though). We found that if there was "less", how his brain perceived it, he was able to stay more focused on what he was doing. Recess...never take it away. Cole needed that to refocus and bring himself back in. The more he felt under pressure, the quicker he worked. He was finding a way to create his own break. In theory consequence and reward sounds great and for most children it works but not all.

I know there is more but at the moment I am coming up blank...

 

[Dadu2004]

She has been tested for ADD/ADHD twice...both negative. She views school as a social activity...and has told us such. She also has stated that she wishes she was back in Kindergarten because school was more fun.

 

[NancyM]

Sorry this is going on Dadu I could never understand why my son did some similar things.

What about trying to give the responsibility back to Delaney. I'm not sure exactly how to make your point but somehow she has to realize she needs to take charge and better care of her education.

I can't help think that something in her way of thinking just isn't right, sometimes kids get a certain thought in their head, or maybe someone said something to her about a mistake she made or something very small like that could have just stayed with her enough for her to be afraid of stepping out of her safe box.

Does she have problem with her eyes, or speech. Something maybe off just a little bit, and she may not be able to recognize it herself to explain it. So she shrugs and acts like it's ok if she fails because she knows/or thinks it's just too hard for her. (possibly because of a minor impairment)

Have you told her Pediatrician? They just are so helpful and may test for other things you and the school hadn't even thought of.

I can't imagine her just acting deliberately belligerent, it takes such an effort to go out of your way to keep up the 'bad' work so to speak, that I can't imagine why she would choose to intentionally be disapproved of, when it would be way easier to do well. know what I mean?

 

[NancyM]

food for thought.
I don't think the teacher should be telling you Delaney may need to be left back so soon in the year, sounds like she may be an alarmist. She also knows how this will impact you and your wife.

If she said this to you in the middle of the year I just wonder if she may be making Delaney feel embarrassed in class. Even if a teacher picks a kid out for doing well, can cause problems for a child. We all know how that feels. Does the teacher reprimand Deleany more than the other kids? And how does she do that?

Sometimes teachers aren't so good. No offense to the teachers on the board, but you all know this is true as well.

I'm just saying...

 

[MomoJA]

I understand why people are giving their sympathies, but I won't do that because this is not a failure on anyone's part. I agree with Gavin in that this could be detrimental to her psyche, and that must be taken into consideration. Before she is "held back" she should be evaluated for how she will react to that. If she considers it a failure, then I don't think you should "hold her back." However, if she is okay with the idea, then do it now! before she gets older.

I think I've read reference somewhere in these forums to the fact that she is very small for her age. Other children react to this in protective ways. It seems it is human nature to coddle endomorphic people, even among peer groups at very young ages. Or at least that's what I learned in my child psychology class in my education curriculum in college. This, or simply her personality, could result in her being "young for her age" with regard to academic maturity.

In some places, parents intentionally start their children in school a year later than the state cut offs indicate. Being more mature in school is never a negative. If she is even close to the cut off age, she could very well be a good bit younger than the majority of her classmates.

Just a little anecdotal. My brother just barely made the cut-off to start kindergarten. By grade 3 he simply was way too immature to keep up, but by then he equated repeating 3rd grade with failure, so everyone agreed it would be better for him to continue with his peers. He floundered for the next 4 years, bringing home passing but not good grades. Then, in grade 8, he went to the boys' high school in our town. The new start and being away from the girls who are traditionally more mature allowed him to flourish. He finally caught up to his peers and made the honor roll almost every semester. If my parents had started him later or held him back in kindergarten, he could have avoided all the pain he faced during his elementary years.

 

[Mom2all]

My first son started school on the younger side. He always struggled. Nothing seemed to work and I literally tried it all. My youngest son started at just over 5 also. He started falling behind, we held him back that year. He is doing quite fine now. His teacher was the one who suggested it saying that she had found that the youngest children often struggled more. Just another 6 months in age made a world of difference.

 

[Xero]

I am so sorry Dadu!! I wish I had some good advice, because I know that being held back can potentially be a really negative thing for kids. Sometimes it can even make academic problems worse. However, it may not be as big of a deal for her to do now while she is still so young. I have to agree with NancyM that I don't see why she would do these things intentionally... I almost think she probably can't help it at the time. If only you could find the root of the problem. I also can't help but wonder if there is a problem with the teacher, but I guess it just bothers me that she jumps to this conclusion already and isn't trying to do more.

I also wonder if she is young in her class? They are finding more and more these days that children are simply not ready for the modern kindergarten at the beginning of turning five, but actually closer to six. In fact, where I live and in some of the surrounding areas, the cutoff is that they must turn five by May 1st before the school year starts. ODS will turn six not a week or so after he starts kindergarten, and YDS will be six already for a few months before starting kindergarten, and I'm happy with this because I feel they will be more ready, more mature, and I get to keep them longer. I know that they back their early cutoff dates up with heavy research and strong indications that it would be beneficial. They are doing this more and more everywhere you look. Unfortunately, some places still have the very late cutoffs and that's why we have a lot of kids who are still not so ready when they start.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

I would definetly consider finding an alternative school or even homeschooling.
Your girl is smart and intelligent. She suffers academically, because she has a hard time fitting in the system. Mainstream education is supposed to be "one size fits all", but in reality it is different. School isn't really about intelligence and talent -- it is about conformity and social placement. :veryconfused:

 

[Dadu2004]

Does she have problem with her eyes, or speech. Something maybe off just a little bit, and she may not be able to recognize it herself to explain it. So she shrugs and acts like it's ok if she fails because she knows/or thinks it's just too hard for her. (possibly because of a minor impairment

No issues with eyes, had that checked twice. Her speech is outstanding...far above where she should be.

food for thought.
I don't think the teacher should be telling you Delaney may need to be left back so soon in the year, sounds like she may be an alarmist. She also knows how this will impact you and your wife.

If she said this to you in the middle of the year I just wonder if she may be making Delaney feel embarrassed in class. Even if a teacher picks a kid out for doing well, can cause problems for a child. We all know how that feels. Does the teacher reprimand Deleany more than the other kids? And how does she do that?

I think the teacher was giving us a heads up at this point...and we knew that this was possibly coming given some conferences we had with the teacher. Delaney doesn't get singled out in class...she's treated like every other kid. We actually really like the teacher a lot.

I think I've read reference somewhere in these forums to the fact that she is very small for her age. Other children react to this in protective ways. It seems it is human nature to coddle endomorphic people, even among peer groups at very young ages. Or at least that's what I learned in my child psychology class in my education curriculum in college. This, or simply her personality, could result in her being "young for her age" with regard to academic maturity.

In some places, parents intentionally start their children in school a year later than the state cut offs indicate. Being more mature in school is never a negative. If she is even close to the cut off age, she could very well be a good bit younger than the majority of her classmates.

She is very small...easily a head smaller than everyone else in her class. It comes with her genes...her mom is only 4'11". She absolutely gets coddled by other kids...they all think she's "cute" and constantly wants to pick her up. Like the older kids do that...and we have to constantly remind her that she's not a baby anymore and that's not acceptable behavior.

I also wonder if she is young in her class? They are finding more and more these days that children are simply not ready for the modern kindergarten at the beginning of turning five, but actually closer to six. In fact, where I live and in some of the surrounding areas, the cutoff is that they must turn five by May 1st before the school year starts. ODS will turn six not a week or so after he starts kindergarten, and YDS will be six already for a few months before starting kindergarten, and I'm happy with this because I feel they will be more ready, more mature, and I get to keep them longer. I know that they back their early cutoff dates up with heavy research and strong indications that it would be beneficial. They are doing this more and more everywhere you look. Unfortunately, some places still have the very late cutoffs and that's why we have a lot of kids who are still not so ready when they start.

She did start young in kindergarten. She turned 5 in May, then started Kindergarten that fall. I really just wonder if the emotional maturity is the contributing factor here.

I would definetly consider finding an alternative school or even homeschooling.
Your girl is smart and intelligent. She suffers academically, because she has a hard time fitting in the system. Mainstream education is supposed to be "one size fits all", but in reality it is different. School isn't really about intelligence and talent -- it is about conformity and social placement. :veryconfused:

Unfortunately, homeschooling is not an option...though it's extremely intriguing. Her mom works full time (we're divorced), I work full time, and my wife works full time. And, there's not enough money to hire someone for homeschooling. An alternative school is certainly a possibility...I've often thought about a private Christian school, but I'm not sure that I could afford it, or convince her mother to allow me to do that. Definitely something I'll look into.

 

[Dadu2004]

Thanks for all the support everyone. Love you all.

 

[Aylaissi]

You said she views school as a social thing, so maybe you could try taking it from that side. Find an activity she would really be interested in and that is social for her after school or in the evenings whatever works best for your family. She will then have a different social outlet and one that is likely more fun. You can see if that helps and even make trying in school a condition of continuing the activity.

 

[mom2many]

If I didn't homeschool, Aiden would have been the youngest in class. I knew maturity wise he wasn't ready but was intellectually. I made the same mistake with Cole and we have struggled because of it (and the ADD) and I didn't want a repeat.

 

[robin480az]

i feel kids are starting school far too early..we put high expectations on these small kids,we forget they were just toddlers a short time ago..give her time she will be fine