Just need to let this out...

cybele

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Feb 27, 2012
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Particularly somewhere where I will get straight answers, rather than the responses I get from family and friends who just hug and "Oh sweetheart" and nod and agree, because that isn't helping me.


Yesterday morning I got a phone call from my mother, I assume most of you know bits and pieces of the history there, in short, not good, not on speaking terms. She was hysterical and crying saying that my Dad is dying. I couldn't get the full story, just hysterical crying and the name of a hospital near her and a room number.

No one else was home, everyone was either at work or school, I tried to forget about it but it kept playing in my head. I ended up going, I know I shouldn't have, but I did.

I get to the hospital and lo and behold, Dad is there, long story short he has inoperable pancreatic cancer, estimated to last 6 months, maybe a year if chemo buys him some more time.

I don't know why I so desperately had to be there, he was in for chemo and they have apparently known about this for 8 months, it wasn't like this was 'the end'. My Grandmother (Dad's mother) still doesn't know, and Dad doesn't want her to because "She's lost her mind, she doesn't even know who I am" (completely false, my Grandmother and I are very close, she is in a care facility, but every Friday I take her out for the day so she can do her errands and she stays for dinner to see her Great-Grandchildren, she's losing her vision and hearing, so you have to yell every now and then, but she is sharp as a tack, her mind is 100% there, she knows exactly who her son is and never misses an opportunity to point out how gravely disappointed she is in the man he has become).

Anyway, after some Grandmother-bashing, which really upset me, she is all I have of my family and childhood and she is everything to me, my Dad turned to me and said "So, now that I'm near my end, grace me with your ever important, knowledgeable opinion Margaret, oh sorry, I forgot, the name we gave you wasn't good enough for her royal highness, Cybele, are you actually happy with what you have made of yourself? Are you happy with the way you look? Are you happy that your children are sinners in the eyes of our lord? Are you happy with your husband? Are you happy that you work as a servant for the general public rather than actually bothering to raise your children? I cannot imagine how any of this nonsense has brought you any happiness, other than your own belief that you have proved that you can be so different from us."

I wish I could say that I came up with some kind of eloquent, intelligent response, but I didn't, I called him a 'f***ing b**tard' and told him that I cannot wait until he dies. I tried to leave but my mother followed me, grabbed my arm and told me that it was all okay, and that she had no issue with me working, especially as after my father dies I will financially support her. It then hit me why she wanted me to come, for financial purposes. I told her that wouldn't be happening, and she started on me about how it was my duty as her child.
I want to now point out that my husband and I are the only people who financially support my Grandmother, we pay her medical fees, her 'rent' is paid for out of her pension, however any extras, the bill is posted to us, my father made it clear that he was not interested in helping his mother and my mother's exact words at the time were "My money isn't being spent on HER, I don't even like her, she can live in a homeless shelter before I pay for her lifestyle". (Her lifestyle apparently being an aged care home...)
I asked her about Dad's duty to his mother and she snorted, then told me that I looked emaciated and that if I didn't gain weight my husband would look for a decent woman elsewhere.

I left at that point.

I received a text message today from my Dad stating "Your selfishness caused your mother to have a turn, she is crying about how she is going to live. I hope you are proud of yourself."



I want to clarify a few things:
1. My parents receive the aged care pension from the government
2. My father has life insurance that will pay out
3. My parents live in a 4 bedroom house in what is now an expensive area, they could sell that house for at least 1.5mil (they bought it in the 60's for $20,000 and paid off by the time the 70's were over)
4. I don't have money
5. I live in a falling apart house in a semi-rural area that is worth around $300,000, if that
6. I have 4 financial dependants and 3 semi-financial dependants
7. My parents have no dependants

My mother is not going to be living on the streets if I don't somehow find money in our meagre bank account to give to her and frankly, given the comparison of our financial positions, I think it is quite cruel of her to demand money from me. Not to mention that she isn't some old hag, I know several women her age who work, and if worst comes to worst, she is healthy and more than capable of earning her own money.



I know that I am not being horrible by denying her any money, and I know that nothing will change after my father dies, she will still be the same manipulative, racist, homophobic, angry woman she has always been, but I am torn. There is just so much that I don't know what to do
Do I tell my Grandmother what is going on?
Do I cut my Dad some slack? Will I regret it if he dies and I don't make some kind of amends?
What do I do about my mother? I don't have it in me to be a ruthless cow and just pretend that she doesn't exist, my Dad is all she has, she has driven everyone else away with her rotten attitude, what happens when he dies? I can't help but feel that I have some kind of responsibility over her, it was okay to just block her out when she had someone, but I don't know if I could live with the guilt of her loneliness, no matter how terrible she is to me.
 
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akmom

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That's an unusual incident. It does seem odd that a couple with a pension plan, life insurance and assets would want your financial assistance. Are you sure they actually still possess all these things? Maybe they have a reverse mortgage, or canceled the life insurance policy (or aged out of it; how old are they?), or accumulated medical debt. My grandparents sold their vacation home to pay for my grandpa's end-of-life care. They were actually quite well off in their retirement, but a decade of cancer, Alzheimer's, and the associated care put an end to that. I'm not suggesting that obligates you to do anything; just noting that the financial situation might not be what you think it is.

Age can change a person's attitude. My grandmother was described as cold and mean most of her life, but as a widow she morphed into a kind and friendly woman who could get past people's differences and just appreciate people's company. I also wonder how much of your mother's attitude is propelled by her husband. Maybe she'll be an entirely different person when she isn't answering to him.

Are you an only child?

It's not like you're obligated to take her in and give her an allowance upon your father's death. But it might be a good time to meet for lunch once a week to slowly nurture a relationship. Or if you think that would culminate into a disaster, maybe you can take a class together or attend some kind of weekly event, where the environment isn't conducive to a total blow-out and she can start socializing with others.
 

cybele

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No idea on the state of their mortgage or if they have refinanced the house, what I do know though is that my father is being treated in a public hospital, so universal health covers it, they aren't paying a cent for his treatment and that you cannot age out of life insurance here (and even if you could, they are not old enough for that yet, they are only in their 60's).

I am an only child.

I think it's the other way around, to be honest. I spent almost a decade in therapy before I could accept the fact that my mother's behaviour does class her as a sociopath, and my father is her enabler, this is encounter was very tame I suspect because we were in a hospital and she couldn't hit me, scratch me, dig her nails into me, throw things at me or in any way physically restrain me without causing a scene she had to keep it to just words, she is not going to change. If the situation was reversed and she were the one dying there is a possibility that my father would mellow out, but he will still be a hyper-religious, sexist, homophobic, violent ass. He is not a good person, but he can be decent, he treats her with every ounce of respect, it doesn't work the other way, but he does, he agrees with everything she says, she controls him.

I came to realise a long time ago that I have a lot of her in me, which scares me like you could never imagine, but it only ever comes out around her, when I am with her I become quite cruel and violent, which usually spirals into some level of self-destruction that I don't really want to get into right now. I feel like my responsibility is to my family and they need a mother who is stable, I never had that and it didn't get me too far. Not to mention that she has caused my 18yr old and my husband an awful lot of pain that I could never forgive her for.

But at the same time, there is always that little nagging guilt "she is your mother, how can you treat your mother like that" in the back of my head, and sometimes, from outside sources who have a glimpse into the situation but have no idea what it is like to be the child of a sociopath. She is my mother and I don't want her to suffer in any way, I don't wish her any harm, but I don't know what to do or how to balance the two sides.
 

mom2many

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I would never allow my mom to be homeless, not even my MIL who can drive a saint crazy, literally.

However, I would not just hand out money on their word alone.

You do what feels right to you and for your family. It doesn't sound like the loss of your father is really going to 'change' things, meaning once he's gone he's gone, but he isn't a part of your life now, so no real loss...that kinda rambled, hope you get what I am saying lol
 

cybele

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Perfect sense :)

I think that's it, I just don't believe that they are in any financial hardship, there is no reason for them to be and I really wouldn't put it past my mother to create a link where I am somehow tied to her in order to exert some control over me. Call me cynical, but I honestly feel (and experience has taught me) as if she is using this as a way to gain control over my life again, if I am giving her money, there has to be some contact, if there is contact, she has someone to lord over.
 

singledad

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First - OMG. You're family sound just about as f'ed up as mine! :(
Sorry...

Now -
Do I tell my Grandmother what is going on?
Do I cut my Dad some slack? Will I regret it if he dies and I don't make some kind of amends?
What do I do about my mother? I don't have it in me to be a ruthless cow and just pretend that she doesn't exist, my Dad is all she has, she has driven everyone else away with her rotten attitude, what happens when he dies? I can't help but feel that I have some kind of responsibility over her, it was okay to just block her out when she had someone, but I don't know if I could live with the guilt of her loneliness, no matter how terrible she is to me.
I can only tell you what I would have done, or have done in similar circumstance. I have to warn you, though, that my family sees me as a bitter bastard with a giant chip on his shoulder. :rolleyes:

Whether or not you tell you grandmother would, IMO, depend on her relationship with your parents, and on how much this drama might affect her. If she has a fairly decent relationship with them, and won't be adversely affected by this, then there is no reason to poison that for her. However, if she will be affected, or is likely to support you against them, it might be worth your while to tell her.

As for responsibility and possible regrets - Did she fulfill her responsibility to you as a mother? From where I stand, it doesn't sound like she did. My father came very close to being homeless once, and only escaped that because his sister took him. I know many people would give me flack for this, but if she wasn't there to help him out, I wouldn't have done it either. I wouldn't have given a rat's ass if he was homeless. My brother didn't even tell me when he heard that my father was sick, and neither of us went to his funeral. Neither of us have any regrets about that. Why should we expose ourselves to the manipulation and emotional abuse that the rest of the family would inevitable have heaped on us?

IMO, I would cut your dad slack only if I thought there was a chance it wouldn't get used against me, to draw me back into the web of manipulation and abuse...

As for your mom, here's the way I see it - her loneliness is on her, not on you. If she wasn't such a bitch, she'd have friends, and a daughter who cared. Why should you expose yourself to more abuse? Why should you allow her to turn you into a person you don't like and don't want to be? Did she ever do something to deserve you taking care of her?

The title of "mom", and the rights and privileges that come with it, is not gained simply by giving birth. It is something that is earned. You earn it by actually BEING a mom - taking care of your kids, supporting them, doing what is best for them, etc. All the things we regularly discuss on here. If she didn't do that, then she isn't mom, and doesn't deserve to be treated like "mom".

I know all of this sound really callous, but I know what it means to be manipulated, dominated, and subjected to constant degradation and guilt-trips. It can destroy you, emotionally, mentally, and even physically. I also get what you mean about having a lot of her in you - as sick as it makes me feel to admit it, I have a lot of my father in me. That is one of the reasons why, ever since I learned that I have the power to dictate my own future, one of my top priorities have been to guard against becoming him. In my youth, I came way too close for comfort to doing some of the things he has done. Now, as soon as I realize that a situation is bringing out that side of me, I walk away. My self-respect is all I have, and it is all that stands between me and self-destruction (something I truly excel at :rolleyes:). I HAVE to guard it with everything I have, if not for my own sake, then for my daughter's. Because she doesn't deserve to have a jerk for a daddy...
 

cybele

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Thanks SD, that actually really helps.

I think I a going to talk to my Grandmother about it. I spend the day with her tomorrow, taking her to the library and the shops and she is having dinner with us, so I will find a time to speak to her about it.

She hasn't spoken to my parents in 8 years, they decided to cut her off when she had a fall and broke her leg and required care, they backed far away from that one and she ended up living at my place for 6 months, then when she went back home and was too scared to shower by herself and her leg was too sore to stand up and cook a proper meal and the care options came up, they permanently backed away and haven't spoken too her since, Dad has just assumed that there is no point because "By now she would have to be off her rocker" and he couldn't be more wrong. Physically she isn't too great, but mentally she is all there.
 

akmom

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Do I cut my Dad some slack? Will I regret it if he dies and I don't make some kind of amends?
That depends on you. Only you know if you'd have those kind of regrets. It doesn't sound like you or your dad are sincere about making amends literally, as in neither of you feels you have done the wrong thing with your lives or with your relationship. So it wouldn't be a scenario where there would be apologies or forgiveness, or even common ground. I guess it would be more about ending on a peaceful note. Being able to say that your last conversation together was pleasant.

From the little you have said throughout the forum, it doesn't sound like your interactions with your parents are ever pleasant. It also doesn't sound like you're quite ready for what they're going to say. So I would strongly consider having a support person with you. Maybe your husband, or your daughter, or your grandma. It's a tough one; you don't want to drag someone else into it, or provoke your parents even more with their presence. But these things are just easier if you're not alone.

The other thing is, plan what you are going to say, and don't worry about what he says. Expect it to be rude or hurtful; don't go in there hoping for him to be someone he is not. Maybe you can think of a pleasant aspect of your childhood and share fond memories of it. You aren't going to be able to go in there and validate your relationship with him, because it is what it is, and you already know it won't change. All you are doing is ending on a positive note, reminding him of some pleasant times, and saying your good byes.

And if you don't feel compelled to do that, if you don't think you'll have regrets, if you've already said everything you needed to in your lifetime and you've accepted his reaction to it... then don't. There's no universal rule saying you have to "make amends" with someone before their death simply because you share DNA. Do it if it's important to you, and don't feel guilty afterward if it simply wasn't important to you.

I wish you the best.
 

cybele

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Thanks Akmom.

I read through your post and what sealed it for me at leaving things be and not attempting to do anything was when you said "Maybe you can think of a pleasant aspect of your childhood and share fond memories of it." because I honestly don't have any fond childhood memories of him. His only interaction with me was physical discipline, otherwise child-rearing was "women's work" and he would stay in his study which I was forbidden from going in.
 

stjohnjulie

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That. Really. Sucks.

I think if I were in your spot, I would make the decision that in order to self preserve and be able to take care of my own family, I would not speak to my parents any more.

Things might really change once your father dies. If your mom has pushed everyone away with her behavior, and your dad is her enabler, it will be interesting to see what happens when he is gone. But it sounds like that is a way off, and it doesn't sound like she about to make any changes now.

Whatever you do, do not become her new enabler once your dad is gone. She is going to need someone to take his place in that way or she is going to have to change. You can hope that she will, but you must also know that she wont do it easily.

I wouldn't feel right about my parents being homeless even if I didn't like them, but that is not something you even have to concern yourself with right now. That is very far off if it even is a possibility at all.

Stay strong. Don't let your feelings of guilt justify letting others treat you badly. Take care of yourself so that you can take care of those who love and support you on a daily basis (your husband, children, and grandmother).
 

bssage

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Oct 20, 2008
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I can think of so many fun smart a$$ type of responses you could use. But I know while it might be kinda fun to write a letter explaining how you need to hang on to your finances to facilitate Great Grandma and your anticipated penance. It would be taking the low road.

This is a very similar situation my mother had with hers. At about age 6 my brother and I were forbidden to visit their house. Grandpa had gone along with grandma and told my dad we were not allowed back.

My advice is to just smile. Explain that's nice and everyone is entitled to dream. When she lays out expectations of you. And move on. I would not waste my time and energy on explaining things, Providing supporting reasons ect. Its not going to be helpful, Its unnecessary, And will never return a good response.
 

Mom2all

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Nov 25, 2009
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You have gotten great advice I think. I can't relate.. My Mom and Dad adored me and we were/are close, so I don't want to pretend I understand. I could never abandon them, but I believe that its because they would have never abandoned me. We learn what we live.

That being said, my non expert opinion on it is this. Cybele, you deserve happiness. You deserve peace in your family. You deserve what it sounds like you worked hard to get to in your life... and you got not not because of your parents, but in spite of them. Don't let toxic people, whom ever they are, destroy you or your life with your family. Your parents checked out of that long ago.

I don't pretend to understand what kind of guilt you might have later on. But I can imagine the kind of guilt you would have if you let your mother come back into your life and change you.. the you who you are now for your own children, into the that angry person you say she helps to bring out. Don't let her.

We can not help who are parents are. Its not your fault that they are the way they are. Its not your responsibility to take care of them just because of the blood in your veins. Being a mother/father is entirely different from a mama and daddy.

Walk away and save yourself.

PS. I just want to hug you too.
 

cybele

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I have to bump this up, part of me is banging my head against the wall, the other part of me is laughing. This happened yesterday and I woke up this morning still shaking my head over it.

Yesterday my Mum shows up at my house unannounced. She hasn't been to my house in, well, years. Anyway, she just appears on my doortstep, grumbling about all the mud (we are currently having our house re-stumped, it's a mess here). I let her in, she realises that Ash is home, he goes back to work next week and of course asks what he is doing here, he explains and she starts arguing with him on whether he has a heart condition or not.

So I ask her what she is doing here and she starts telling me about how she has to sell her house and live in her holiday house "for financial reasons". I asked her why she couldn't sell the holiday house and continue living in her house, she says because she will get more for her house which she needs "to live on" (some perspective here, she had both valued, we are talking $1.8mil vs $1.3mil) she also has my father's superannuation and life insurance, plus her own aged pension and widow's pension.
She kept going on and on about how it's going to be so hard to downsize to the holiday house.
"Mum, is this the holiday house I helped you move into?"
"Yes"
"The one on the beach?"
"Yes"
"The one with three bedrooms, a formal lounge, a formal dining, a balcony, a library, a spa, a butler's pantry and a foyer with a chandelier?"
"It's a very tiny library"
"You realise that you are one person, right?"
"Think about what I would have to give up though, the study, the maids quarters, the parlour"
"Mum, I lived in that house for 20 years and I still don't know what a parlour is for because no one ever used it, you included, and the last live-in maid you had was 30 years ago. But what's your point anyway? Do you want help moving again?"
"No"
"Then?"
"A lot of children support their parents into old age"
"Because a lot of people in old age don't have everything you have"
"Well-"
"It's not going to happen, not the way you want it to. If it ever does happen, it will be on our terms, not yours, and I can guarantee that you won't like those terms"

She then changed the subject to her favourite topic, every way in which I disappoint her, yesterday's speech on that topic featured such gems as not having saucers for my teacups despite 14 years of deportment classes (and her being a deportment and etiquette teacher) and not 'courting' the 'nice boy' she made me ballroom dance with at my debutante when I was 16. Then she left, grumbling about mud, parlours and saucers.

I don't know whether to be amused by the idea that living in her beach house is going to be some kind of torture, or annoyed that Ash now knows that I attended deportment classes / had a 'debut' into society / know how to ballroom dance and is teasing me mercilessly about it.
 

akmom

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May 22, 2012
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What kind of support was she suggesting? Does she want you to make house payments or something?

In the U.S. we have a program called "reverse mortgage." If you own your home and are a certain (advanced) age, you can sell your house to a bank that pays you in monthly installments while you still live there. Even once it's paid in full, you can continue to live there the rest of your life, and they take possession of it after you die (whenever that is). I don't know... it sounds like that might be an option for maintaining one's lifestyle??
 

cybele

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Doesn't sound like anything we have here, sounds like a brilliant idea though.

By support she means what I do with my Grandmother, I transfer $50 into her bank account each fortnight and she wants the same setup. For my Grandmother, however, it's because her pension pays for her accommodation at an aged care facility and the money I give her is for clothes, make-up, little food purchases she wants to make that the aged care home don't provide (things like mints and chocolates), bath products, envelopes/nice paper/stamps so she can write to her sisters in England. Mum seems to think that I give her much more money than that, everytime I tell her the amount she shakes her head as if she doesn't believe me, not that it's any of her business how much I give her anyway.
Mum owns both properties, there's no mortgage to pay, she just doesn't like that I give my Grandmother "money to play with" and I give her nothing. She has more than enough money to survive though. If she sold all the art in her house, that alone could keep her fed for a decade.
 

akmom

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May 22, 2012
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I have no idea how those home values relate to socioeconomic status in your area, but it seems that someone in possession of two homes in that value range wouldn't be coveting another $50/month. What difference would it make? Does she perceive you to be at a substantially higher socioeconomic level than she? Or perhaps is she awkwardly trying to express envy over the thoughtfulness you show your grandmother in general?
 

cybele

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Feb 27, 2012
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My psychologist's spin on it is that it's about control rather than monetary value, if I am giving her my money, then she has a level of control over me.

It could have a lot to do with my relationship with my Grandmother actually, that's a really good thought, she is my father's mother, and her and my mother never got along, so it wouldn't surprise me if there was some element of envy there.

It definitely doesn't have anything to do with socioeconomic status, haha. We are well below her and she makes sure to point out how much 'better' I would have had it if I married within their social circle like I was supposed to.
 

cybele

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That said, I don't at all doubt that part of her seriously thinks that she is entitled to her lifestyle and an inability to maintain it is something that should be important to me. It just seems to have not stuck yet that I don't care about whether she has a parlour and somewhere for a live in maid that she doesn't even have to stay.
 

singledad

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Oct 26, 2009
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Yup, it sounds like she is really trying to guilt trip you more than anything else. And it does sound more like she wants you to do for her what you do for your grandmother, much more than it is that she actually wants that $50/month.

Fortunately, it seems her attempt at guilt-tripping you has failed. Well done for not letting her get to you!

btw - What is a parlour? I don't even know!