Need advice on 15 (16 in oct) teen boy...

[JamesHill78]

I do not want to make my first post a wall of text people will just look at and skip. I'll try to be as concise as possible, and answer more if needed.

I am a military disabled vet of 3 children. 15, will be 16 in oct, 13 year old boy and 6 year old girl. Wife and I have been married for 17 years this month. We run a rather tight ship but nothing to the extent of saying sir and drill instructor type atmosphere. We are strict, like most parents I would assume, but not over the top by any means.

That being said we've been having a hell of a time with out soon to be 16 year old. Hes not stop disrespectful, now is starting to swear infront of us, and 2 days ago threatened he was suicidal. A quick note on that, hes using it to hurt us, hes never said it before and doesn't display any signs or symptoms of depression. Hate to say it but its more like first world problems. He had a girlfriend and we didn't allow him to talk to her passed a certain hour on the phone or internet. Thats one of his main reasons...

Anyway, we've been having issues since school started last week. We told him hes not allowed to get a ride to school with his friend down the street. This kid is reckless and we just told him no. He did it first day, we said you're grounded. Second day he road home, 3rd day he rode to and from school. All these days he also has been going to lunch off campus, which without a note from us, isn't allowed.

SO after grounding him and talking to him about it, we told him we will call the police next time he gets in his vehicle. It didn't work, all he did was say im suicidal and its because of you, me the father. His reasons, which he didn't give, are really because he can't do what he wants to do. Hes not bullied, not depressed...etc its literally because we refuse to take him or allow him to hang out with this girl.

So I did something I know isn't the best. I had taken away his 2 favorite things, his ipod and nintendo ds earlier. He fiends for them like crack so figured it would work. It did for a bit but after he did his little suicide thing, laughed at us about calling the police I went and got his stuff said here, you win.

I told him he has two options. Option A, do what you're told, follow the rules and be apart of this family. Option B, do what ever you want, without breaking the law or getting me in trouble. I told him option B will also mean he cannot get our support beyond food, clothing, and shelter. Meaning if he wants special clothes, a cord for his ipod (which he no longer has because it was mine), and rides he has to pay for it. He has no job but put in an app to a DQ near by which we all ready told him no, school comes first.

THis is getting way too long I see, im tryin to shorten it as people might give up reading at this point. The point I was trying to make was you need us. You're only 15/16 and you still need our support, not only our family/love support but financial. I figured once he saw he doesn't have any means of income, can't get anything he wants anymore, has no rides...etc he'd be like ok I get it. Well, hes not getting it.

I need him to get help, but I am on the worst insurance known to man kind and they won't pay for it. I am flat broke being a military vet. I need him to be put in counselling of some sort and I don't think the school will do much, maybe like a 20 min talk and he'll just say its all good.

Lastly, part of the reason I don't call the police is I have ptsd and panic attacks. If I call the cops my anxiety goes into overdrive and I have to leave the situation and get medicine. That and im trying all I can to not have him get a criminal record, yet. Hes walking on ice in march, seems stable to him buts going to crack any min.

Any help would be appreciated and I will answer any and all questions to clarify things.

Jim

 

[cybele]

You can never ever ever assume a threat of suicide as not being legitimate, the stakes are way too high if you're wrong and just because he chooses not to share whatever is happening in his head with you, does not mean that they are not there.

I would also strongly against threatening punishments you cannot go through with, he's just going to play you like a fiddle.

I think he needs help, and I can appreciate that financially that is hard for you, but if he had cancer would you put it aside in the "We can't afford it" basket?
Suicide is the #1 cause of death for males in the 15-29yr old age range. Your son is threatening to kill himself, your job is to move heaven and earth to get him the help he needs.

 

[JamesHill78]

Thanks for the advice. I'll look elsewhere

 

[TabascoNatalie]

Whats the big deal if he has lunch outside campus?

 

[singledad]

I can't help but agree with cybele - threats of suicide should ALWAYS be taken seriously. The signs of depression aren't always obvious or even visible. His acting out may also be an a sign that everything isn't right...

 

[TabascoNatalie]

I would not rush to stick a MH diagnosis on a kid so young. MH issues are still very stigmatized in the society. Don't know how it is in US, but in many other places a fact that you're receiving psychiatric help will have you blacklisted and barred from pursuing certain careers or activities.
And he has his whole future ahead of him.

 

[JamesHill78]

Whats the big deal if he has lunch outside campus?

The school has said they are not allowed for one, for two its against my rules. I don't think he eats, he goes to walmart and buys a 1 liter of mt dew and maybe a candy bar for lunch.

 

[JamesHill78]

I can't help but agree with cybele - threats of suicide should ALWAYS be taken seriously. The signs of depression aren't always obvious or even visible. His acting out may also be an a sign that everything isn't right...

I wanted this whole thing to be about how to get him help for his listening problems and his acting out, not about his one time I want to hurt you comment. He said it just as a kid says they hate you, just to hurt you. A quick one min phone call to the local sherrif, which I talked to yesterday, and they take him to the MH and its not good. I know my kid, better then anyone, and hes doing this to hurt us, not that he'd do it.

Matter of fact I know this because prior to that outburst he also used to help some of his other friends who said they'd do it. He told us how serious it was and he'd never even consider it. Hes not going to do it and doesn't have the means to, we'd stop that in a min flat if we felt it was legitimate. i've never known a kid to even attempt it because they don't have a cell phone and a later curfew. again, I didn't want this to be all about that I wanted some ideas on help like counselling help.

I would not rush to stick a MH diagnosis on a kid so young. MH issues are still very stigmatized in the society. Don't know how it is in US, but in many other places a fact that you're receiving psychiatric help will have you blacklisted and barred from pursuing certain careers or activities.
And he has his whole future ahead of him.

THis is why I refused to call the police right after he had his outburst. I don't want him to have a criminal or MH record yet. He can only see about 6 months in advance of his life at 16, he doesn't know what it can do. Hence why I wanted outside help in ideas for counselling.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

The school has said they are not allowed for one, for two its against my rules. I don't think he eats, he goes to walmart and buys a 1 liter of mt dew and maybe a candy bar for lunch.

Your right to pick your own battles of course. But honestly i think that fighting about where and what a 16yo has for lunch is a bit unreasonable

 

[singledad]

I would not rush to stick a MH diagnosis on a kid so young. MH issues are still very stigmatized in the society. Don't know how it is in US, but in many other places a fact that you're receiving psychiatric help will have you blacklisted and barred from pursuing certain careers or activities.
And he has his whole future ahead of him.

Seriously? Companies can access your medical records and discriminate against you because you were one treated for depression? And that is legal in the so - called "first world"? No wonder people don't want to get help!

Well, if that is the case, I no longer know what to say. All I can say is that it's really, really terrible. It leaves you with an impossible choice - either get him help and enable him to reach his full potential in life, and then have that taken away from him by an extremely screwed up system, or leave him to struggle through life, fighting himself every step of the way

As someone who has overcome serious mental health issues in my life, all I can say is thank you Madiba and FW for a constitution that protected me from such discrimination.

 

[cybele]

Yeah that would be beyond illegal here. Thank you Australian Privacy Act of 1988.

Meanwhile, even if I were somewhere where employers could dig through your teenage medical records I don't think I'd be avoiding getting help for my child who was threatening to kill themselves.
To be blunt, I doubt "I protected them from not being able to gain employment in this country in some certain fields" will be much comfort if you have to bury them.

 

[JamesHill78]

just a note anyway, since this got derailed.

I put an end to the do what you want, sat him down, and had it out. After about an hour long session, he MIGHT have got it now. He was full on billy badass mode with a shield for the first part but finally once he realized some things, it went better. We've done this before and it works for a day or a week so we'll see.

 

[artmom]

That's good.
Good idea to take bit by bit. It's still a good idea to discuss this with his pediatrician so everyone is on the same page.
Does your son have a guidance counsellor to talk to now that school has started?

 

[TabascoNatalie]

Seriously? Companies can access your medical records and discriminate against you because you were one treated for depression? And that is legal in the so - called "first world"? No wonder people don't want to get help!

Sadly, it is true. It would not matter for an admin or sales job, but lets say you want to work for an airline or something that could be high risk and responsibility. Then you'd be forced to disclose a lot of stuff -- any MH or substance abuse issue would be a red flag, and you can scream discrimination all you want, but safety comes first.
Other instances, not from UK -- a MH record could suspend your driving license or put social services on high alert when you have children.

 

[singledad]

I didn't mean to derail the threat, but you, the parent who knows his son best, said that you think he needs help. I was trying to encourage you to find a way to make that happen. But now, I don't know. I don't know how serious his issues are, and if he can overcome them without professional help. And I clearly don't know the downsides to getting treatment where you are, even though here, there are almost none.

I cannot give you advice on how to discipline a troubled teen, since I see that as trying to treat a symptom without considering the cause. That is contrary to how I approach life.

Good luck. I hope things work out for you and your son.

 

[JamesHill78]

Well, so far it seems to me to be a typical teen showing. Nothing too bad, testing me and my boundaries, and looking for independence.

I want to go thru the school for counselling first. Thats usually the best route as its free help, in school where hes at, and wouldn't normally make a lasting record.

He explained to me his issues. One was girl problems and it wasn't even really that serious. He assumed a lot of things I wouldn't let him do, even though he never even asked. Our talk was good. I told him we'll comprimise. He said he want to be treated his age. I said no problem, but you do need to realize you are 15 (or 16 in a month) not 18 so you still have limits.

We increased his curfew, told him he can go out places as long as I know where it is and when he'll be home and a few other smaller things. I said number one thing, please show me and your mother respect. You give it, you'll get it. SO far its OK. Today was his first day of new curfew. He missed it by 50 mins... I told him you have a half hour earlier one for 5 times of making it on time. He didn't complain at all so, we'll see.

 

[artmom]

We increased his curfew, told him he can go out places as long as I know where it is and when he'll be home and a few other smaller things. I said number one thing, please show me and your mother respect. You give it, you'll get it. SO far its OK. Today was his first day of new curfew. He missed it by 50 mins... I told him you have a half hour earlier one for 5 times of making it on time. He didn't complain at all so, we'll see.

50 minutes is nearly an hour late. And that is with an increased curfew?
It's up to you but you should consider reducing his curfew permanently if he can't uphold his end of the deal. If I was his age my mom would be on the phone making a missing persons report and then yell at me and ground me for a month, and then she would never allow me to be out past 7p. I would then have to build up my mom's trust and she doesn't forgive easily. I think I'm still earning her trust for things I've done 20 years ago.
Okay, so you don't have be THAT extreme. But just to give you a comparative contrast I think you are being way to lenient.

 

[JamesHill78]

Well, day 2 I gave him the 8:30 curfew and he did make it half hour early. We tried the extreme version before. The week long or longer grounding and it didn't work, at all. What has worked in the past, once or twice, was lowering the curfew every time hes late and he has to make it 5-10 times on time to get it higher. We've always went to the extreme on things and it doesn't work out well so we're trying to take the lesser route to see if its more effective.

 

[artmom]

It's interesting to see how different kids are to parent. When you really take a look how parents raise their kids and how their kids behave to correction, in good families you can notice how parents and kids are naturally made for each other. Sure one parent does something different than how you do it. But it doesn't mean it's wrong for their kids.
It's just something I noticed because of how mature you are responding. Not getting defensive and negative about suggestions and ideas. Just taking it in and reflecting on it.
If your way is working for you, Dude, why not?!

 

[JamesHill78]

THis is why I signed up here, to see some other ideas and strategies I may not have thought of. I tried to not to get defensive at all, most people are just trying to help. Some people suggest things in a matter of fact way im not fond of, I just try my best not to reply in too much of that manner.