Need some help...

[stjohnjulie]

I will just give the short of it for now... My ex is wanting to move to the states, he has for a long time, but now I think he really is making an effort to make it happen within the next 6-12 months. He wants to take our son. I DO NOT want this to happen for many many reasons. The number one reason is that I do not think it would be good for him to be raised by his father alone. I won't go into the details, but this is the opinion that many others in our 'circle' share with me.

I don't really want to tackle this whole mountain at once, so I need to start at the start. What I need help with right now is what to say to my ex about what he has done so far with putting our son in the middle of this. He has spent a great deal of time 'wowing' him with the things his money can buy and availability of 'stuff' in the states.

Over the summer, they were both in the states doing lots of fun stuff, and unbeknownst to me, discussing how our son would be going to school in FL for 6th grade. I do not know any details of what they talked about. All I know is that our son came back home saying he was going to be in the states for 6th grade. My ex never talked to me about it AT ALL.

Ok, so, I now need to tell my ex that what he has done is very very wrong. But I need to be able to try and get through to him. Can you guys help? Just telling him that he is wrong to put our son in the middle of this discussion wont do much I'm afraid. My ex is quite possibly the most selfish self centered person I have ever encountered. He is capable of being nice, but only if it aligns with his own wants.

I am totally freaking out here. My son brought it up last night, why I wont let him go to FL, and it didn't turn out so good. He was hysterical and said that his life is ruined if I don't let him go. Dad did a good job at making me the bad guy before I even knew what the hell was going on. Dad has been away almost a month now and will be back Friday. I need to talk to him about this as soon as he gets back.

What can I say to him to get it through his head that what he has said and done putting our son in the middle is just wrong wrong wrong?

 

[MomoJA]

The only thing I can think is to just tell him, but obviously that won't be enough to get it through to him. Maybe have him watch that Dustin Hoffman/Meryl Streep movie - Somebody vs. Somebody - I can't remember the name of it just now. Or maybe you can watch it to help you find the words. Kramer vs. Kramer. Just remembered it.

 

[IADad]

When you say " get it through his head" it implies that he may not see it as having been wrong. So, do you think he got all wrapped up in his great plan and was getting DS excited as a means of making transition and didn't really think about how he was manipulating, or do you think he intentionally manipulated him. In the long-run it may not make much difference, but it does addect how pissed off your are that he did it. KWIM?

You are in a diffiuclt position. If you pull a trump card and keep your son with you, then you risk forever being the asshole who kept him from the Nirvana that seems to be Florida. If you convince Ex that he was an idiot and needs to reverse the plan, then you're still the asshole, because it's apparent you're the one who killed the deal. I guess I'd start with: "WTF were you thinking? Were you really intentionally using our son, a sweet 10 yo boy, to hatch a plan to take him from me, move him with you? Did you ever considerwhat's best for him or that maybe his two parents might need to cooperate on a feasible solution together if your moving to the states?"

Hope that helps.

 

[NancyM]

If it were me Stjohnjulie,

I wouldn't even talk to him because it's going to get nasty, I wouldn't waste any more time, I'd go immediately to an attorney and find out where I stand in this.... That's about all you can do NOW.

 

[stjohnjulie]

Although I don't really want to think it, I do think that he has manipulated our son and the situation. I just so badly want my ex to be a good person and I have no idea why I have to be constantly reminded that he is very selfish. He is like a child in that way. He truly is one of the most difficult people I have ever met. I know him better than anyone else does, yet he is still a mystery to me.

The thing is, I already know <I>how</I> to go about this in a way he will understand. BUT, it goes against pretty much every fiber of my being. If I TOTALLY freak out on him and scream and use a lot of curse words, he will hear me, and it will sink in. But it's hard for me to do that because that is NOT the kind of person I am. And I don't like doing it because it makes me feel very stupid.

I need three sentences. That is all I want to tell him (yell at him).

NancyM, I thought about the lawyer. We were never married. We don't have a formal custody/child support agreement. I was just going to get a lawyer and start the process....but I think this would turn things even nastier. He has far more money than I do and he could bury me. I'm going to hold off on that until I feel there is no other way.

 

[MomoJA]

I don't know the three sentences, but I think you should avoid using "you". I know that's very psych-speech, but it does avoid the defensive counter attack.

I would make sure to clearly layout what he has done to your son. "He is too young for the burden of choosing to leave his mother," etc.

 

[singledad]

Mmm, I could probably come up with three sentences if I try to imagine myself in your shoes, but that's not a side of me that I'm proud of . And either way I don't think you should go there. There's that old saying about allowing the other person to drag you down to his level and then beating you with experience... Seriously - he doesn't sound like the type of guy you want to get into a screaming match with.

I'd rather second Nancy's suggestion of getting a lawyer, even though I get what you say about the money.

Good luck. I wish I had better advice

 

[mom2many]

I read this when you posted it but didn't write anything cause I was not sure what I would do. It's also kinda hard when we really don't know the guy KWIM?

Honestly, if he is serious about this you are going to need to get a lawyer (if you can't talk him out of it) my concern is no court order. So far it has worked your you guys but the truth is he could take your son out of school and move with him and legally he would have that right. Some states do offer a little protection to mothers who were not married by assuming the mother has guardianship/custody but that does not protect you at all (I know).

It is time for a sit down talk, a big talk, stay away from the "you's" and phrase them as I and Luca...."I know that Luca would love to live with you in the states, and I do think that visiting and spending time there with you is important but right now I feel he is to young to make the choice of living with you. I know that you will take good care of him (lie if you have to) I know that you love our son as much as I do, I am not questioning that, I am questioning whether or not it is in his best interest at this time.".....depending on his reaction you either walk away with an understanding or it is time for a lawyer.

I would also be leery of letting Luca visit without a court order, nothing saying he has to send him back.

Good luck, that is a really tough spot.

 

[stjohnjulie]

I knew it would be hard to get advice on this mess since you guys don't know Luca's dad. I talked with my business partner, who knows him well, and she REALLY thinks I need to yell at him. He has proven to us time and time again that he just doesn't think anything is all that serious or important unless it is said with extreme emotion. (this is probably a product of what his childhood taught him) I don't even think I can do it though. This is just the start of the war, the first battle so to speak. I just need him to stop talking to Luca about moving to the states. He is totally f-ing up his little head. It sucks soooo bad.

I don't think he would take Luca. Living where we do, it's hard to just pick up and go. But to be on the safe side, I have his passport and birth certificate. He wont be able to get far without them.

There are a bunch of reasons why I don't think he would take Luca, but just to let you know how complex my relationship is with my ex.... I worked for him for 11 years. He recently sold his business....to me...and my loan payments are made to him. He's not going to walk away and hide from me. I owe him a ridiculous amount of money and right now that is the only income he has. (he has a mountain of money in the markets though)

Thanks for your help guys. I really appreciate it. He's home tonight, so I will try and give you an update on how things went.

 

[singledad]

Aw Julie - I wish I could help you .

he just doesn't think anything is all that serious or important unless it is said with extreme emotion.

that makes sense is a bizarre and rather uncomfortable way, but does "extreme emotion" really mean you have to scream? I don't know how hard this would be for you, but can you not just let go and show him your real emotions? See, I don't think faking it would get you anywhere, other than to make you feel rediculous...

Wow. This really feels like the worst advice I've ever given anyone, but you asked...

 

[IADad]

I don't know how you're going to resolve your fight with him and making lucca happy once again, but I absolutely think you need to get a court order establishing you as the custodial parent. Sure you have his passport and BC now, but what about once he wants to go for a one week visit. If this guy has mountains of money he can make a lot of stuff happen. Protect yourself. Like I say, this doesn't help with the parental/emmotional stuff, that's a different argument, but if it's truly best for Lucca to be with you, you need to ensure that.

 

[NancyM]

I'm not sure if I missed it Julie but do either of you have legal custody of Luca? The reason I suggested an attorney is:

1. Sounds to me that he may already have purchased a property in Florida since he already knows the school district.

2. In the US if either parent has legal custody the other parent can take the child anywhere he/she wants and you can't press charges. It's not considered kidnapping unless one of you has legal custody. If God Forbid he does take Luca somewhere in time, there will be nothing the police can do if the child is with his father legally.

3. As long as he has Luca legally he can still expect/and you would still have to make payment on that loan, since he wouldn't be hiding and you would have his address and can mail it to him.

Good luck.:frown:

 

[stjohnjulie]

So I did it the way that I normally do things... I emailed him. It was short, to the point, and hopefully he is putting some serious thought into it. I haven't gotten a response, so it's hard to say. I think he is coming to the store today for some work stuff...so maybe he will say something then.

I heard from a family friend that he has put his move plans on hold for another year. He has lived here for a very long time, and I guess I should settle the hell down because who knows if he is ever really going to move. He has been planning on moving since I met him 12 years ago. And yesterday Luca and him went to St. Thomas and bought a whole bunch of house plants...not something you do when you are moving in 6 months I don't think.

As far as the passport/birth certificate, the reason why they are important here is that you can't get out of here without one of them. You have to clear customs when you leave here, even though we are a US Territory.

Looks like I have a little more time now to get things sorted out. I am going to look into a formal custody agreement. I just hope that my ex will stop messing with Luca's head. It's just so cruel to put him in position where he has to make a choice between his dad or his mom and brother.

Thanks so much everyone. Your support and advice mean a lot to me.

 

[IADad]

Glad things are settling down Julie, but there's a 6 ton elephant in the room that everyone's trying to warn you about, and you seem detemined to ignore it.

I don't mean to try to TELL you what to do, but you obviously have a lot of people here who care enough to post their ideas to help keep you and Lucca from being hurt, but we can't do the tough work, sorry, that falls on you.

Anyway, don't want to come off harsh or pushy, just trying to point out to you that maybe you want to go back and read the responses, I think you'll find a theme.

Big hugs - we care!

 

[stjohnjulie]

Thanks IADad, I probably didn't say it right. I didn't mean that I was just going to ignore things now that it's not pressing I just meant that now I have a little more time to find some legal help with all of this.

The logistics of where I live a little tough. There aren't any lawyers on my island that can deal with this (nor courts). I will have to go to the next island and try and find a lawyer that can give me some guidance. This is an all day event involving a car barge or ferries and several taxis. I know it still has to be done. But now I feel like I can do it without a gun to my head, if ya know what I mean.

I also am going to have a sit down with dad. We need to <I>talk</I> about all of this. While he was away for a month, Luca's first month of school, Luca did AMAZING. He was just so awesome I don't even know where to start to tell you all about it. It was like he matured over night. I feared that once dad got back, some of the behavior issues would be back. I have seen some of that already. This is a BIG problem and I need to talk to dad about it. Dad made some comments to me yesterday that were just not right and I immediately corrected him and told him he was way off base. So we have a lot to talk about. Thanks again everyone. I do appreciate your advice and comments, and I promise I'm not taking this lightly

 

[IADad]

Thanks IADad, I probably didn't say it right. I didn't mean that I was just going to ignore things now that it's not pressing I just meant that now I have a little more time to find some legal help with all of this.

The logistics of where I live a little tough. There aren't any lawyers on my island that can deal with this (nor courts). I will have to go to the next island and try and find a lawyer that can give me some guidance. This is an all day event involving a car barge or ferries and several taxis. I know it still has to be done. But now I feel like I can do it without a gun to my head, if ya know what I mean.

I also am going to have a sit down with dad. We need to <I>talk</I> about all of this. While he was away for a month, Luca's first month of school, Luca did AMAZING. He was just so awesome I don't even know where to start to tell you all about it. It was like he matured over night. I feared that once dad got back, some of the behavior issues would be back. I have seen some of that already. This is a BIG problem and I need to talk to dad about it. Dad made some comments to me yesterday that were just not right and I immediately corrected him and told him he was way off base. So we have a lot to talk about. Thanks again everyone. I do appreciate your advice and comments, and I promise I'm not taking this lightly

Cool, didn't mean to get all preachy on ya, but it did seem like you were talking about just going with the flow, thinking that your possession of the documents was enough. It sounds like a royal pain to get all the lega stuff worked out. Good luck with it.