Not telling the truth...

[queenme]

Hi,
To start, please forgive me if I write too much. I don't know how to create the full picture in short paragraph.
I have a 10 year old daughter (no siblings). Recently, she started to lie about stuff that she doesn't want to do IF I force her to do them. Examples:
Brushing the teeth, brushing the hair, making the bed. Up to couple weeks ago, if I would ask her for the second time ( did you really brush???) the truth would come out. Couple weeks ago, she did hide a dress, and acted as she can't find it. I was very disappointed, and jumped at her about it. Told her about how much I hate when she lies and she should not come to me anymore for any favor (until the next day), and no TV or computer for the rest of the week.The next 5 days we had long conversations about the importance of telling the truth. for various reasons such as: it's the right thing to do--- if no one knows about it, GOD still does--- You will lose my trust when hiding the truth.
Last night, while I knew she was playing games and not doing her math on the computer, I played dumb and started a conversation as:
Are you doing your math? (YES ) - I'll come and checkup on your work shortly. (OK ) -Then I sat next to her. She switched the programs before I get to her. I continued..: So, what is the other tab? Game? ( no answer from her) --- why is this game open? ( she: it must have stayed open from yesterday)
After this point, I changed my questions to : Are you telling the truth? You do know that not telling the truth makes you lose our trust? I am giving you chances so you can tell me the truth.
No matter what, she didn't tell the truth. But when I showed her how disappointed I am, she said that she is sorry- one word and not in her usual super sad voice. Kind of like fi she didn't care.
What am I supposed to do? Punishment, Prize, talk. all of them are done but nothing has changed. Any advice?
Tnx


She loves playing on computers or ipod.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

First of all, welcome to the forums :smile:

I am giving you chances so you can tell me the truth.

saying that sort of thing to your girl, what response exactly do you expect?

Her to say that she hid the dress on purpose, plays game instead of math, and does not care to brush her hair/teeth?

Well, all children try very hard to outsmart their parents and get away with things. We all been there. IMO, as an adult, you should try to minimize such situations. Simply saying "go brush your teeth now" elminates the possibility of trying to lie.

As for computer and homework, maybe have a separate user account for homework with games and other distractions removed. It would help the concentration.

 

[Neway]

I agree with what TabascoNatalie says.

But I just wanted to add.

If you know that she is not telling the truth, and pretend that you don't, what sort of example is that setting? You're basically telling her that "I know you're lying, but I'm not going to tell you that I know, so I am in fact, lying to you, but it's ok for me to do it because I'm your mother."

It's also setting her up to get caught, and once she knows she's been caught, she will just keep lying to try to get out of trouble and it will snowball into a giant argument. Try and keep it as non-confrontational as possible, state that you know that she's not telling you the truth, that it is not acceptable behaviour, and to go and do what you have asked her to do, and if she doesn't, then there will be consequences.

Try re-wording it, which sounds better? "Why are you lying to me? I hate it when you lie to me." or "I like it when you tell me the truth". "You lose our trust when you lie" or "When you tell me the truth it makes me realise how grown up you are becoming". Which would you prefer to hear?

Hope this helps and welcome to the forum.

 

[cybele]

Does she require the computer to do her homework? Honestly, if my kids were doing that, I'd just give them a pen and paper and go "Eh, your loss" but then it's rare that the homework they are given requires a computer.

 

[bssage]

Well she is 10. Probably a little before that age would be when I started my "Campaign for the Truth" with Cole.

For a kid "Truth" is kind of a complicated concept. Heck even for adults it can be a slippery slope.

I always do my best to be truthful to everyone really. And I hope I set a good example.

If I am not truthful and I think he has observed me. I do my best to explain my self. Really if the goal is to never lie from 10 years old on. Who among us can say they would have been successful at that. A unreachable goal is sometimes worse than no goal at all. It only teaches them how to fail.

I think first you should define the values of specific truths. Like "did you do your homework?" does not have the same value attached as "Did you light the car on fire?" or even "Who ate the last cookie?"

So I try and break it down a little. Why is it important to tell me the truth about homework? Its important from the standpoint that. You need to know if she needs help? For you to interviend before her homework become an overwhelming task of getting caught up. If the daily schedule can be modified to help have time for both the game and the work. The "truth" in that case is necessary for you to be able to help. In the case of a car on fire (bad example I know) There may be no one else who would believe her. That you have to be sure you get the story right to defend her. In the case of the cookie: Its just because you want to know who to give a hard time about eating the cookie.

Then throw in "white lie's" : "lie's of omission": and my personal favorite "Stretching the Truth" into the mix it gets even more complicated in a little 10 year olds head. And you can feel free to make it more complicated as you want. When we parents: Close family: Friends: Media ect ect. Lie why was that done?

So my advice is first listen. Then explain why that specific truth is important: or why it really is not. Then (and dont leave this step out) listen again.

By no means am I suggesting that there should not be consequences for lying. Only that they should be supported with a foundation of understanding how a specific lie does harm.

Two questions for anyone posting:

Have you ever lied?

Will you ever lie again?

If you say No to either question. There is likely a problem.

 

[queenme]

you should try to minimize such situations. Simply saying "go brush your teeth now" elminates the possibility of trying to lie.

It would be perfect if I could or knew how to min. such situations. Normally, you ask your child if they brushed or not. When you get a positive answer, there is no need to ask again unless you DO know that it may be a lie. So I ask her to let me check her teeth. If the teeth are not clean then I will tell her to go brush again. """"Here is where a door opens to arguments to proof that she did brush"""""
At the end, she accepts to go and brush again. But a lot of times, the brush is still dry and she has fallen sleep ( with in 10 min)""" I am sure you will think why I don't go with her in the bathroom to make sure she does the job right. A:She knows how to push my buttons when I go to help her get ready. So I learned from the past that if I want to keep the house calm, I better leave her alone.

 

[queenme]

Does she require the computer to do her homework? Honestly, if my kids were doing that, I'd just give them a pen and paper and go "Eh, your loss" but then it's rare that the homework they are given requires a computer.

Yes- They have advance math homework that are done via a math website that school is paying for the membership. They also have a lot of extra language art activities that are on-line.

 

[queenme]

Not telling the truth to your parents is not something I can easily accept. Lie to your teacher to get out of a bad situation: I can close my eyes for that one. But the problem for us is that she lies to me and tells the truth at school- at any cost.
I can clearly see that I am losing control in every aspects and it scares me. I could never punish her, even when she was 3 years old. Taking her toys or TV/game/computer privilege,play dates.....you name it- does not make her to feel really bad ( at least it shows that way). She easily accepts it that she has done something wrong and now she lost a privilege. No fuzz, cry...nothing. Most of the times she tries to be good for a while and as soon as she gets them back- she makes the same mistake. Some times, she doesn't even bother with trying and she prefer not having the privilege at all.
Prize always work for her, but I can't tell her :" if you tell the truth, you will get a prize." Telling the truth, is a basic fact for trust. Should not be put in the same level as "if you brush your hair everyday, you'll get a prize"
Do you agree?

 

[TabascoNatalie]

You have to realize one thing... You have the ultimate power and control over your child. Even if she is disobediend, defiant, etc., in the end of the day -- she is completely dependant on you.
Would you feel better if she cried? Would you feel more in control?

As for situations you described, you aproach your child with negative attitude already. You know she dis that or she didn't do that what you expect. You would be telling her off anway. But do YOU really need a conflict in that place?g

 

[bssage]

I guess I think whats happening with you is fairly common. And how your dealing with it is also fairly common. It happens to me. Not very frequently but it happens. I would bet if were were all being honest here. The dilema of : If we keep prodding we are nagging: If we believe them its like a blank check for things going undone: And if we call them on it we dont trust them. Its an especially common them in the morning or when chore/homework is to be done.

I dont pretend to know the "fix" . But I do think I have had some progress and success. Buy addressing "lying" or "trust" outside the above context than in. during the calm moments. The ride to the store. or a wait in line. Anytime I can exploit a calm moment. I explain what Lying means to me and why trust is so important. These are like two minutes mini talks. That I do frequently. And if I can anticipate a situation where he may lie. I ask him a question and have him take a little time on his answer. Give him an opportunity to reflect back on the things we had talked about. I think that also reduces the "knee jerk" lies.

Will this completely fix it. Probably not. Will it help reduce and increase the level of understanding you both have IMHO I believe it will.

 

[cybele]

Not everyone will agree with what I say, but the way I go about it with my kids is that if I cannot trust you you act your age, and you wish to act like a baby, then you can be a baby.

Don't brush your teeth? Well, I can do that for you, in the most embarrassing manner possible, we will sit in the bathroom and I will brush your teeth for you while singing my special teeth brushing song that I used to sing when they were toddlers. Not doing your homework? Well just sit next to Mummy and she can read the questions out loud for you and we can think them through together, won't that be fun?

Only really had to do this type of stuff with Sunny, didn't take her long to get the point that she wanted the responsibility to be hers, not mine. But then I can be one terribly embarrassing mother when I want to be.

Gotta be honest though, I don't get the dress thing. Is there a reason why she hid it? Does she not like the dress? Does she generally not like dresses? Was it to go somewhere they she didn't want to go? To just pick a random item of clothing and hide it seems a bit strange to me.

 

[bssage]

Cybele:

I agree. But I think its different than lying. I have kinda done the same as you. I ask about three times for example brush your teeth. The I brush them for them. A three strikes your out kind of thing. But I dont do it as a punitive measure or disciplined. I do it in a very matter of fact taking care of business manner . "This need done." "If your not going to do it I will". And really it was effective enough that I cant remember the last time I had to do that.

But "Correct me if I am wrong" I dont think the OP is about how to get things done. It about the lying that is a component of how to get things done. That is the focus of the post.

And the short version of my point is. If we say "you can never lie" we would be hypocritical (either us or the world around them). And seeing that hypocrisy would make a already confusing concept even more so. Making the "common sense" approach counterproductive.

 

[cybele]

I guess I take a lot of lying around this age as simply "I don't want to do it, therefore I will pretend that I have already"

Brushing teeth is boring and for the most toothpaste isn't the greatest taste, and really, who wouldn't rather play video games than do math homework?
The fallout from not doing homework is usually not immediate, at least, you have to wait until the next day, minimum, and the effects of not brushing your teeth aren't hugely visible to a pre-teen in the short term.

I think lying about little everyday tasks in a sense of pretending that they have been done is different from lying on a larger scale, such as coming home and making up some elaborate story about something huge that happened at school that didn't really happen. Therefore, the best way to deal with small lies is on a small scale, correct the behaviour and get them to do it, because there really isn't much sinister motivation behind the lie, just laziness.

 

[bssage]

I agree.

We (parents) tend to take lie's as an insult. But like you said. In that case it is probably more about being lazy or an undesired task.

 

[queenme]

Will you please elaborate more on what you think I should have done?

 

[queenme]

You have to realize one thing... You have the ultimate power and control over your child. Even if she is disobediend, defiant, etc., in the end of the day -- she is completely dependant on you.
g

I don't feel I am in power anymore. There is only so much privilege a parent can take away, if things only get better temporary it means what ever we are doing is not really working. I even talked to a physiologist. He advised me to let her be free and not control her unless she is harming herself. In another word, don't force her to take a shower if she doesn't want to, let her be...and she will come back to you one day at a time. As the result, I went crazy watching her walking around for one whole week without taking a shower, and could not follow that path. ( this was last year ). Every year, she gets worse than the year before it.

 

[queenme]

Gotta be honest though, I don't get the dress thing. Is there a reason why she hid it?

She is very girly and loves wearing a dress ( not that one though) but hates wearing leggings with dress, and it was too cold to wear it without- no boots to help with the situation. Also, she sits/jumps/rolls, as if she is wearing a pants. we can never be sure if her underwear will be seen by public or not. My friends are telling me not to let her wear dress at all, but I don't want her to grow up like me....my parents always put me in pants to be more comfortable when horsing around. As an adult, I am so uncomfortable in dress, and wear them may be 4-6 times per year- which I wish it wasn't the case.

 

[queenme]

I absolutely agree that lying is more because of her laziness and boy she is lazy. If I tell her, if you don't do it I'll do it for you...she can't be happier. Sitting next to me and I read the question and do homework together? Brushing her teeth and sing for her? dressing her up? She can't be happier. I am trying so hard to make her do stuff on her own. If she could ask me to breath for her, she would have done that already. May be the main question is how to avoid a situation so she won't be lying. I like to let her be responsible for her own time of playing games, taking shower, brushing hair...but it is just not working. nothing will be done unless there is a prize or a punishment. If I can't turn the behavior around now, I will end of having a heart attach when she becomes a teenager.

 

[bssage]

As far as I know. Nobody has the one trick that makes all kids mind. Most of the things people suggest on this site involve a fair amount of repetition, and consistency to be successful. With the shower, and teeth brushing. These fall into the "have to be done" category. The three strikes then "I will do it for you" category. I personally have had some success with this. It still takes time.

I am trying to figure out where you are. In the states a lot of us have "Power School". And that works kinda like a real time report card you can access through the internet. You can set it to send reports daily: weekly almost as often as you like. I know when Cole missed an assignment date: what that assignment was: and what impact that has on his grade. We no longer have to guess if an assignment was done or done well. We can use the reports to explain how undone work will snowball into a huge amount of work. Or maintenance of the little pieces are much less work and time.

I have had a lot of success exploiting that.

But with all of these things. You have to find your groove. You have to be patient. And be careful not to muddy the water. If you make the morning lesson about both lying and hygiene. You message gets lost or is diluted by the additional messages.

My advice is when she lies about homework. Make the issue about the homework and try to resolve that.

When she lies about her hygiene. Make the issue about hygiene and try to resolve that.

When you address lying. Pick your time. A time when she is receptive to input. When your not in a hurry to move along. A time where you can focus on your presentation.

IMHO this will reduce the overall stress. It give you both the time and opportunity to listen and respond without distraction. It should make things easier on both of you.

You hear "pick your battles" alot as a parent. While that is true. There is a lot to be said for picking the time of the battles.

 

[queenme]

@bssage- I don't have much issue with homework. She is a very good student. The lie about homework was a one time incident but I could see how it may have happened in the past. But as long as she is making great grades, I am not going to make it about home work. I believe you are correct about mixing all the messages together and bombard her all at once. I will start to pick the right time, and focus on one subject at a time. Thanks.