Propensity for diagnosing disabilities...

ChrisNP

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May 10, 2012
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Hi everyone, this might end up long-winded, but I'm curious to hear other's opinions on this subject. I'm wondering if others feel there is a propensity to diagnose children with a variety of disabilities today, whether an actual disability really exists or not.

Some background: When our son hadn't started talking by 2 years old, my wife started to become concerned and we had him evaluated by Early Intervention. Not only did they qualified him for services based on the lack of speech, but to our surprise, they also qualified him for pretty much every other service they offer. I was present for the evaluation for Occupational/Physical therapy, and what struck me was that, while the evaluation was in 2 parts - a question/answer with me, and a direct evaluation of our son, they only seemed to base the evaluation on the direct evaluation. So despite my assurances that he had no difficulties in certain areas, fine motor skills, for example, he was marked as having fine motor skill disabilities because he didn't demonstrate those abilities within the 20 or so minutes with the evaluator. This was clearly the theme of the evaluation - anything he didn't specifically demonstrate he was marked for, regardless of whether or not I indicated that he performed that task without difficulty in day to day life at home. We received OT sessions for several months before discontinuing it, because it was obviously not serving any purpose for our son.

We did, and have continued to receive, speech therapy, but our son still doesn't really talk. He's almost 3 now, and while he has maybe 15 to 20 words he knows, he only uses them sporadically. He does "speak" incessantly in his own language though. The main issue seems to be one of motivation, at times he'll start counting numbers, saying the letters, or just saying certain words on his own, but as soon as we try to encourage him to continue, he stops immediately or after a short period of time. And when we try to get him to continue, he gets a grin on his face and starts laughing, as if he finds it funny that he's refusing to do what we obviously want him to do. He's extremely strong willed, and many things are a battle of wits - it's not that he can't do something, it's that he chooses not to. He'll come to us with a container, for example, wanting it opened. When we try to get him to say "open" he'll squeal and the look on his face seem to be saying "you know exactly what I want you to do, so just do it".

So it's been about a year of speech therapy, and the success has honestly been a bit ambiguous. He does use more words now than he did a year ago, but it's difficult to specifically credit that with the therapy and not just the passage of time. And I don't say that to disparage the service, the woman who works with our son is great and clearly very dedicated.

However, on the last session, the therapist suggested to my wife and I that we might want to consider having our son evaluated for Autism Spectrum Disorder. She stated that, while she wasn't specifically qualified to diagnose ASD, in her experience, our son would fall under it's description. We've read up on ASD, read about all the symptoms, and neither my wife and I think our son truly has an autism-related disorder/disability:

He has none of the signs of classic autism - no motor skill problems, fine or otherwise. He's not obsessive about toys, or the way he plays or with schedules. He has no social issues, in fact, he's exceedingly social and outgoing with anyone, familiar or complete strangers. He'll literally run up to almost every stranger on the street and will tell them his life story (in his own language) for as long as they'll listen. He interacts with the other kids in his playschool and they seem to like him - always running over to him when I drop him off, and saying "by" when I pick him up. He makes direct eye contact with everyone. The <I>only</I> issue is that he chooses not to talk very much and is resistant to learning, and I stress that it's an issue of him choosing not to as opposed to not being able to. We can get him to learn and use new words, but it's like pulling teeth.

So, now they want to test him for ASD, and based on our experience with EI, my wife and I are entirely certain that they would indeed diagnose him positively, despite our firm belief that he has nothing of the sort. It just strikes me/us that there's a propensity to diagnose kids with disabilities today. Personally, my feelings are that there's a rather broad range in the time in which kids learn to talk, and while our son is certainly later than average, he's still within a reasonable range, say 2 to 4 years old, and has no developmental disabilities or disorders at all. I'm fine with the therapy he has been receiving, but I'm exceedingly skeptical and not inclined to have him diagnosed for Autism because of the medications that will surly be a part of that treatment. I just think that, looking back to my childhood, and that of my siblings, I have no doubt that if we were exactly the same children today, we'd certainly be diagnosed with ADHD and probably Autism Spectrum Disorder (I was rather unsocial as a kid).

So, if you actually made it through all that, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Do I sound like a parent in denial, just not wanting to admit that my son has a disability, or am I reasonable in my concern that he not be diagnosed, treated and potentially medicated for conditions which I firmly believe he does not suffer from.

Thanks in advance!!!
 

bssage

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Oct 20, 2008
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A proper response will take a little bit. You covered a lot of ground. It would be neglectful of me not to try and correctly answer them.

I will say this. There is no Autism medicine. Just not there. There are medicines that can be taken to address some of the symptoms. Typically extreme behavior issues. But you clearly are not having issues with that.

I will post again tonight.
 

NancyM

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Jul 2, 2010
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Hi ChrisNP

I'm Nancy and have a 20 yr old son.
If it helps any, my son didn't speak until he was 3. His medical doctor said his frenulum ,the thingie under his tongue was 'tight' and attached to close to the tip of his tongue which made it uncomfortable for him to speak. So my son just choose not to try. lol Not to mention I did everything for him and figured out what ever he needed , so he never had to say anything....lol

Eventually it fixed itself, the dr said they could do something to it if it didn't 'stretch' itself out. yuck

Sometimes when kids know you're trying to make them do something they just don't do it. Especially if they're strong willed. lol

Did you talk to his medical doctor as well?
 

ChrisNP

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May 10, 2012
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Hi Nancy, thanks for the reply. I've always been of the opinion that kids begin talking whenever they want, and that not talking by 2 years was certainly not yet a cause for concern. Now if he got to 4 or 5 years old and still wasn't talking, then I'd be concerned, but not now.

Funny you should mention you figuring out what your son needed, because my wife and I have always done the same. He's our only son, so he has always had our full attention, and his needs were either obvious to us, or he found ways to communicate what he wanted, just non-verbally. When he wanted something done, he'd grab out hand, lead us to the thing and just shove our hands towards it. The safety gate on the stairs, and that meant he wanted to go downstairs. He'd take his empty sippy-cup and our hand and just put them together, and that obviously meant he wanted it filled. The funniest one was he'd take our hand and push it up in the air towards the TV on a shelf when he wanted to watch a cartoon (we don't get TV service, but he loves Disney and Pixar movies).

So yes, to a large extent, he has always had his needs met without having to verbalize, so he probably hasn't seen the value in talking. On top of that, he has his own rather complex language that he talks in, all the time. You can see an example of it here: Vlad's own language I suspect that he fulfills much of his verbal desire with this type of "talking", so again, he doesn't see as much value in learning "our" language.

And to say he's strong willed would be an understatement!! A couple nights ago, he brought us one of his toy cars and wanted a door opened (it's small, awkward and he can't open it himself). In the past, we would have just opened it and he'd have been happy, but this time, we refused until he said open. We pointed to our mouths and said "Open" over and over, and each time, he'd scream and shove the car back at us, as if to say "that's right, I want it opened, so just do it". It took probably 15 minutes of him screaming each time we'd say "open", but he finally said it, we cheered and immediately opened the door. The very next morning, he woke me up in bed with his car, saying "up-pen, up-pen". So, he can learn, and he can talk, and he knows what things mean, it's just that he's resistant to doing it when he knows that we know exactly what he wants right from the start.

I'm just really concerned that this whole EI/social services system is structured with two distinct paths - either a kid learns the activity being therapized and "graduates" or they look to diagnose kids with conditions of ever increasing severity.
 

bssage

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Oct 20, 2008
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Some of what I am going to say is fact. Some is opinion. I will try and make that distinction to help out reading my reply

<I>I'm wondering if others feel there is a propensity to diagnose children with a variety of disabilities today, whether an actual disability really exists or not.</I>
I believe you are correct. And the catch is even if you do get a contrary second opinion. Do you choose the opinion that would allegedly save your child? Or choose the one that may make sense and saves you money. More specifically if one doctor said you have cancer and need chemo. And another say no you do not. What do you do?

IMO This is kinda what I was talking about on the other thread. People who get paid to recommend their own services. I am suspect of this and it is why <U>I research the crap out of a topic before</U> I approach the "professionals"

<I>our son hadn't started talking by 2 years old, my wife started to become concerned and we had him evaluated by Early Intervention. Not only did they qualified him for services based on the lack of speech, but to our surprise, they also qualified him for pretty much every other service they offer. I was present for the evaluation for Occupational/Physical therapy, and what struck me was that, while the evaluation was in 2 parts - a question/answer with me, and a direct evaluation of our son, they only seemed to base the evaluation on the direct evaluation. So despite my assurances that he had no difficulties in certain areas, fine motor skills, for example, he was marked as having fine motor skill disabilities because he didn't demonstrate those abilities within the 20 or so minutes with the evaluator. This was clearly the theme of the evaluation - anything he didn't specifically demonstrate he was marked for, regardless of whether or not I indicated that he performed that task without difficulty in day to day life at home. We received OT sessions for several months before discontinuing it, because it was obviously not serving any purpose for our son.</I>
The DSM-IV-TR (2000) was revised expanded and excepted last year. It changes what is covered under the Autism umbrella. I cant reread the whole thing again with out blowing my brains out. It is not a document specific to Autism. Autism is included in it. Feel free to read basically it is amending the description of autism to include most (almost all) social delays. Not just the classic arm flapping stymieing non- eye contact stuff. My Daughter is Classic Autistic.

We did, and have continued to receive, speech therapy, but our son still doesn't really talk. He's almost 3 now, and while he has maybe 15 to 20 words he knows, he only uses them sporadically. He does "speak" incessantly in his own language though.
My daughter does this.
<I>The main issue seems to be one of motivation,Getting out what we know they have. as soon as we try to encourage him to continue, he stops immediately or after a short period of time. And when we try to get him to continue, he gets a grin on his face and starts laughing, as if he finds it funny</I>
My daughter does this constantly.
<I>He's extremely strong willed, and many things are a battle of wits - it's not that he can't do something, it's that he chooses not to. He'll come to us with a container, for example, wanting it opened. When we try to get him to say "open" he'll squeal and the look on his face seem to be saying "you know exactly what I want you to do, so just do it"</I>. IMO could go either way
Both of my kids have done and do this. I dont think its specific to Autism and I dont think the other things have to be.

So it's been about a year of speech therapy, and the success has honestly been a bit ambiguous. He does use more words now than he did a year ago, but it's difficult to specifically credit that with the therapy and not just the passage of time.
This is one of the most difficult things to evaluate. Even for professionals.
And I don't say that to disparage the service, the woman who works with our son is great and clearly very dedicated.
IMO I have never really been impressed with speech therapy. I am however very impressed with the results of music therapy. Same length sessions much more bang for your buck. I recommend you look into it.

However, on the last session, the therapist suggested to my wife and I that we might want to consider having our son evaluated for Autism Spectrum Disorder. She stated that, while she wasn't specifically qualified to diagnose ASD, in her experience, our son would fall under it's description. We've read up on ASD, read about all the symptoms, and neither my wife and I think our son truly has an autism-related disorder/disability:
IMO a two years ago he very well may not have. But with the expanded definition I believe he clearly falls under that umbrella. And if that is the case. You want the early intervention.

He has none of the signs of classic autism - no motor skill problems, fine or otherwise. He's not obsessive about toys, or the way he plays or with schedules. He has no social issues, in fact, he's exceedingly social and outgoing with anyone, familiar or complete strangers. He'll literally run up to almost every stranger on the street and will tell them his life story (in his own language) for as long as they'll listen. He interacts with the other kids in his playschool and they seem to like him - always running over to him when I drop him off, and saying "by" when I pick him up. He makes direct eye contact with everyone. The only issue is that he chooses not to talk very much and is resistant to learning, and I stress that it's an issue of him choosing not to as opposed to not being able to. We can get him to learn and use new words, but it's like pulling teeth.
Language, Communication delays are a targeted symptom of Autism. A few years ago the different delays would have there own category. Now its Autism. It is important to make an early diagnosis so that early intervention can begin. It is in both your and his best interest to shore this up. It has the potential to get him to the point where he can proceed with the mainline education before school begins if progress can be made early. According to research this is most effective before he is expected to keep up with everyone else. I.E. The older they get the less effective intervention proves to be.

So, now they want to test him for ASD, and based on our experience with EI, my wife and I are entirely certain that they would indeed diagnose him positively,
IMO I agree.
<I>despite our firm belief that he has nothing of the sort.</I>
IMO you would be wrong. Based on the expanded definition only.
It just strikes me/us that there's a propensity to diagnose kids with disabilities today. Personally, my feelings are that there's a rather broad range in the time in which kids learn to talk, and while our son is certainly later than average, he's still within a reasonable range, say 2 to 4 years old, and has no developmental disabilities or disorders at all.
IMO What I am not sure your getting is that being on the low end of the range gets multiplied with age. The longer he struggles to catch up. The further away the line becomes. The target is not a fixed point. Its dynamic and feeds on what has been learned before. Its like this: With intervention he has the potential to maintain his distance from the target or even close in on it. Without it that the gap will likely become greater as his peers accumulate the building blocks of education that he has yet to struggle with.
I'm fine with the therapy he has been receiving,
IMO you should really think about this. Really dissect what is being done and the progress that is being made. You have the power to say "That is not good enough" You have to be his advocate.
<I> I just think that, looking back to my childhood, and that of my siblings, I have no doubt that if we were exactly the same children today, we'd certainly be diagnosed with ADHD and probably Autism Spectrum Disorder (I was rather unsocial as a kid).</I>
IMO your probably right. But you being right about that. Does not make the diagnosis wrong. Or intervention unnecessary. Old ways do not always = better.

Do I sound like a parent in denial, just not wanting to admit that my son has a disability,
IMO. Dude its tough. We hated it. You probably will to. This is an once of prevention is worth a pound of cure kinda thing. My advice is take the help. And educate yourself. I am only going to include one link. http://www.ianproject.org/ Its kinda a info clearing house. They dont try and sell anything just gather research and share it. Click the community button and check out their forum. You can get any Autism specific question answered by someone who has access to information and ongoing studies. Also I would advise you to look into the Music Therapy. I have found it to be much more value added than the Speech. They probably both have there place though.

I hope this helps and I didn't come off as hard.

bssage

ps I have a crap load of links and stuff. If you need more lite reading just let me know.
 
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mom2many

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Jul 3, 2008
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I am gonna agree with Bssage on many, many of his points. My oldest, 20, had a speech delay (now remember this was 20 years ago) I think had he been born within the last few years he would have fallen in the spectrum disorder.

I know that you feel speech therapy isn't doing much, it took years to really have an effect on my oldest. He had little to no speech until he was 5, unless of course you consider his "special" language as verbal communication.

What I am saying is that more help never hurt anyone, not enough help can set a child back years. You will never regret any extra help, you may in the end regret not getting him enough.

Good luck!
 

ChrisNP

Junior Member
May 10, 2012
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Thanks for your lengthy reply.

bssage said:
IMO a two years ago he very well may not have. But with the expanded definition I believe he clearly falls under that umbrella. And if that is the case. You want the early intervention.
It's definitely a difficult situation. Certainly if there was a problem we would absolutely want the help in addressing/handling it. But the problem is when the diagnosis is ambiguous at best. Our experiences with the evaluations for EI make us extremely suspicious of the accuracy of evaluating what are, unquestionably, very subjective issues. As I mentioned, our son was evaluated as having significant fine motor skill impalement when that was absolutely not the case. It just strikes me as absurd to expect that a 2 year old will be able to demonstrate all these skills, to complete strangers, in 15 to 20 minutes time.

While I disagreed with parts of the assessment, I did think the help with speech could be valuable, so we went along with it for EI services. But now we're talking diagnosing him with a condition that is known to be incurable, and so the label will stick with him his entire life. And the more I read about Autism Spectrum, the more it strikes me as simply casting a bigger net, and the listed symptoms that are evaluated can be exceedingly subjective.

Of the one evaluator for ASD that was recommended as being very good, I asked if they could say, of the number of kids that are evaluated, how many are found to NOT have ASD, and the woman drew a blank... She was totally unprepared for that question, which I believe says something right there. If someone is evaluated, they're exceedingly likely to be found to suffer from the condition being evaluated. Combine that with the large net nature of ASD, and it causes me significant concern about the accuracy of any evaluation.

bssage said:
Old ways do not always = better.
That's certainly true, as is the converse - new ways are not always better either. What can not be argued, however, is that today, there is a tremendous amount of money tied up in the diagnosis and treatment of health related issues, and money <I>always</I> influences people's decisions. Using the physical/occupational therapy as an example, our son was clearly misdiagnosed, so why was that? Well, it's in the best interest of people working for social services to diagnose kids with a condition they treat. It keeps them in a job and helps justify their continued receipt of tax dollars. The OT would come once a week and run a brush on his legs and arms, hands and feet... but only clockwise... that was very important, never counterclockwise. Honestly, it was an absolute joke.

bssage said:
IMO I have never really been impressed with speech therapy
I have to agree with you there, and I don't want to take anything away from the therapist who's been working with our son, she's clearly dedicated and I'm sure just trying to help. On the other hand, her suggestion on having him tested for ASD has come after a few weeks of somewhat frustrating sessions, and seems to be an admission that she's out of ideas. And that's fine, god knows she's tried, but her being out of ideas and/or simply not making a connection with our son does not automatically = autism. To suggest it does is to say her, and her specific approach is 100% effective in treating delayed speech, and so if she hasn't succeeded, that in itself indicates the existence of a more serious condition.

My wife and I are still discussing how to handle everything, and I certainly understand the thought that it's better to play it safe and get the help. But there's 2 sides to every coin, and as I mentioned earlier, there could be a serious downside to having him diagnosed with a condition known to be incurable.
 

bssage

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Oct 20, 2008
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Chris. I wanted to address your concerns with the "Label" My kneejerk reaction was its a sticks and stones kind of thing. But it did not take much inward thought to know I was incorrect. I, And I would assume many people have struggled with this issue. For me I was not as hard as it will be for you. But it was still difficult. The difference was that we had a very clear and urgent need. (another post, another time) The impression I get from your post however is that this is something that wont be a lifelong issue and is temporary.

So I did a little research. What I took away from that is not fact. Its just my impression from what I have read of other peoples work.

The first thing I took away was that for the diagnosed there was a significant boost in self esteem. The reason attributed to this is that they now have a name. They can say I am different because x. Whereas the undiagnosed do not know or understand why they are different.

The second thing was that yes people who have been labeled are treated differently. Test scores were lowered and expectations changed when trial participants had been given information indicating special needs. When that information was not given the group graded higher and responded more favorably than the other group.

But none of the research if felt was very good and didn't really get what I was looking for to give you the response I think you deserve. I have not given up but have been unable to find any really good research.

I did post this to the staff at IAN and this is their response.http://www.iancommunity.org/forum/posts/list/478.page

My opinion. I am really not sure at this point. I dont think we really had much of a choice. We needed the resources and assistance that came with the lable. Does not mean I like it. But I think it was necessary.

If I find anymore significant info I will post. But I did a pretty deep dive and would be surprised if I come up with something new.
 
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Mom2all

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My son didn't speak until he was a little older than 2.. (Correction, he didn't speak to me) I'd listen to him talk to his sister at night in their room from outside the door) He just didn't feel the need to chat it up I guess. Then one fine day.. he asked me for a cup of juice.. and he's not stop talking sense. I still don't have a clue why he wouldn't speak at all to anyone but his sister until then but Adam has always done his own thing in his own time. Perhaps soon, your little one will shock you too!