So what DOES count as cheating?...

evilbrent

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Sep 4, 2007
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So I've got this business trip to China coming up. It's very exciting - I haven't had a passport since I was 7. I'm going to basically oversee the tooling trials for a product that I've designed.

Some of the guys were joking today that when you're there they take you to the baths for a massage, and there's two choices: "massage" or "massage with happy ending".

I jokingly asked the question "So, when you're overseas it doesn't count as cheating right?" and I honestly couldn't tell if they agreed with me. One woman said she was at a sales meeting in Bali and of the 13 men at the meeting 11 of them cheated on their partner. They even took her for drinks one night AT the brothel.

(Before I go further, let me just be clear - I do NOT intend to have sex or even 'happy ending's. I'm not like that. I AM just joshing around here. I'll be wearing my wedding ring.)

Ok, so I'm going through a 'dry patch' right now. (Ie, my depressed wife doesn't want me going near her this year, but otherwise we're ok.)
I started a little joke with her - "Should I get a massage with a happy ending?" and she basically refused to answer. I mean how hard is that? The answer is NO! right? Well. That's what I thought. I grilled her, and it turns out that she doesn't want me to, but she doesn't feel like she's got a right to say something like that because she's not 'holding up her end of the bargain'. Her words.

Anyway, I thought it was an interesting topic: what counts as cheating?

(I did not have sexual relations with that woman).

What happens on the road stays on the road right? ;)
 

Amber

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Feb 8, 2008
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evilbrent said:
What happens on the road stays on the road right? ;)

Not in my book.

I couldn't imagine going without sex, so I can't really put myself in your shoes. I can imagine I'd be tempted. However, I still feel like it's cheating. Jack jokes around, says it's not cheating if it's in a different zip code (what a goober), but I firmly believe that when you married that person, you agreed and swore to be with strictly that one person, no matter what.

Personally, if I were your wife, I'd rather you left and divorced me instead of cheat while we were married. To me, to be cheated on is ones of the biggest betrayals.
 

musicmom

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Dec 4, 2007
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I think you have to be honest with yourself. It would be cheating if you are getting any sexual gratification at all. A regular massage would be ok. I see nothing wrong with needing or wanting the touch of a woman. Without sounding tacky, your wife will not even lay there for ya? Want me to call and talk to her for you? I have to pm you something evil that you will find funny.
 

Dadu2004

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May 16, 2008
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Yikes, you're treading on shaky ground there my friend. Once you cross that line, you can't take it back. How would you feel if you cheated?
 

fallon

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Jul 19, 2007
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I should have stayed out of ths thread...Ryan's on the road a lot but I believe he would say it was still cheating
 

ljmahr

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Oct 16, 2007
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Cheating is cheating. Like one poster said, it is the biggest betrayal. How would you feel if it was the other way around?
 

FooserX

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Jul 11, 2007
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I'm probably 80/20.

Obviously cheating is wrong, and it's a betrayal of trust.

That said...life is meant to be lived.
 

HappyMomma

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Mar 7, 2008
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meow_173 said:
I personally would die of the guilt.
I'm with Meow on that one. The guilt isn't worth whatever short term gratification.

IMO, cheating is defined by each individual relationship, it depends on what a couple is comfortable with. If a person is doing something that they feel they need to hide from their SO... very likely cheating.
 

hwnorth

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Mar 13, 2008
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Evil ... Im pretty liberal in many aspects .. but I look at it this way ... anything that your partner would be opposed to ... or anything that you would oppose your parter doing
 

evilbrent

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I think it comes down to trust.

I have a friend who used to have an open-ish relationship with his girlfriend. As far as I know, now that they're living together, it's much less open than it used to be - but for a while there the rule was basically that they could each be with whoever they wanted but THEY were the couple. As long as it's just sex - do whatever makes you feel ok was their rule.

When they met SHE was in a relationship with HIS ex-girlfriend, and then he become BOTH of their boyfriends (as in, they'd all share the same bed) and then eventually the ex kinda became the real ex-ex... and now it's just the two of them and I love them both to bits. So you can see where they come from.

Me. I've been married for coming on 10 years now. That's not my game. Seriously, I'm a monogamist.

Can I just say one thing? I'm started to feel 'cheated on' now. Honestly. This disinterest in me is really upsetting - I KNOW that it's her problem, that it's just that she doesn't want to have sex, it's just that it's ME that she doesn't want to touch. I thought. I dunno. I thought we had a deal. I thought we were on the same page.

It occurred to me last night that a sexual relationship is like a joke that only the two of you are in on... as if you're the <I>only two in the WHOLE WORLD</I> who are doing the naughty/exciting things that you're doing together.

For me, at least, this feels already like a breach of trust, she's stopped playing the game with me and I can't handle that - even though, like I said, I know WHY.

----

Anyway, back on topic. PPV huh? (business trip remember - I doubt that'll go down too well on the expense report :-D )

One person said that any level of gratification is unacceptable... is porn, then, acceptable? It can be gratifying. Is fantasizing? What about cyber-sex with random strangers in chat rooms?

In my situation, say, why should a person who does not want any part in my gratification at any level have a say in whether or not I find some other way to meet my needs? Am I just to be held hostage to her because of some promise I thought we'd made together a decade ago? I guess this is one of those 'can't break it if it's already broken' kinda things...

----

anyway, like I said, I'm not GOING to, just wondering.

My reasons for not doing that are: 1) I would never be ok with exploiting a woman for sex 2) I do actually still love my wife in that way, even if she doesn't return the feeling right now 3) yes, I do take the marriage commitment seriously. (but not necessarily in that order)
 

FooserX

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What's the harm in casual cybersex?

There you go...good option there. You're interacting with someone, so it's fun and spontaneous.
 

Amber

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FooserX said:
What's the harm in casual cybersex?

There you go...good option there. You're interacting with someone, so it's fun and spontaneous.

No way. Find a stuffed animal and talk to it while you do "your thing."

Any kind of touching, talking, stuff like that in a sexual manner to anyone other than your spouse is cheating.

However, I do understand where Brent is coming from. I'd feel the same way. It's either you make the decision to divorce or commit the ultimate betrayal.
 

FooserX

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Amber said:
Any kind of touching, talking, stuff like that in a sexual manner to anyone other than your spouse is cheating.

Whatever...as long as it's under control it's fine.

As long as my wife never told me she was cyberf@#king some guy, I wouldn't know and wouldn't care.

If it was the same guy, over and over...and they were calling each other...and things were spilling into real life...then it would be a problem.
 

Amber

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FooserX said:
As long as my wife never told me she was cyberf@#king some guy, I wouldn't know and wouldn't care.

If it was the same guy, over and over...and they were calling each other...and things were spilling into real life...then it would be a problem.

But that's the thing. For one, wouldn't you be extremely hurt if you found out your wife was telling another man how handsome he was, how much she wanted to be intimate with him and all the various things she could do to him and he to her? I mean, that stuff is personal, between a man and a wife.

And for two...you can bet yer butt it won't be just a single episode. You'll know everytime she logs onto Yahoo/MSN/AIM,ICQ, whatever her cyber-tool of choice, that she's gonna be whoring herself on the internet. It's just bound to happen. I know, it's happened to me before. Ex tried to tell me it was once....retard didn't realize that since I go to school for computer programming I know how to get deleted files back onto my computer.:rolleyes:
 

Lissa

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Sep 12, 2007
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I really don't see a difference between watching pornography and cybersex. Unfortunately, my husband doesn't feel the same way. He can look at gross pictures online and subscribe to Playboy, but cybersex is cheating.
 

Amber

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Lissa said:
I really don't see a difference between watching pornography and cybersex. Unfortunately, my husband doesn't feel the same way. He can look at gross pictures online and subscribe to Playboy, but cybersex is cheating.

I don't see a difference, either. However, people will justify porn because it's not a 'physical' interraction with another person, just the one person looking at sexual contents with the intent of self-gratification. Honestly, I'd rather my husband come ask me to strip before he looks at porn.