So what DOES count as cheating?...

[Teresa]

Humor is fine when your partner is secure. There are some nights when Kutter is ready to go and I'm just not. And he'll joke and say something like "well I'll just have to go find somebody that will then!" and I'll say "well then go ahead!" because we both know that he wouldn't. And that is funny. But it's not funny when she probably really does expect you to go looking elsewhere. And the fact that she expects that probably makes her feel even worse because sex isn't good with her right now. Which makes it even harder to have good sex! It's a vicious cycle.

I agree that humor is good for the average person but right now your wife is not the average person, she's a depressed person and probably won't find much of anything funny.

Exactly!! DH and I will joke about my "boyfriend" and his "girlfriend," but we know that if the other person isn't feeling particularly loveable or loved, that's a joke we do NOT make. And with a person who sounds like they are clinically depressed and in need of professional intervention, it would be even worse.

 

[kflying]

I have learned a lot from you conversation . I found a very interesting dating site recently.Singleparentloving-Where single parents feel at home! I think I should share it with you all. Maybe you would like it.

 

[evilbrent]

would you PLEASE stop spamming your dumbarse website at this good website??!!

 

[Trina]

she basically let me rape her the other day. Well, it was about 4 weeks ago now...

so - here's me trying to 'make love' to her, and I thought, "She's being even more unresponsive than I thought possible."... turns out, the whole time, she was lying there in the dark with her eyes closed trying not to cry - waiting for me to finish.

I didn't COERCE her into this: all _I_ did was say "I'm going to go brush my teeth then wait for you in the bed." Then I brushed my teeth, went to bed and started reading my book - HOPING she'd follow but not getting my hopes up in you know what I mean. Then she followed. Turned out the lights. Took off her pants. Got into the bed. Said "ok, come on then". I climbed on top, did my thing, and then that was that. I didn't find out until it was finished that she'd only done it because she thought "I deserve sex".

I felt dirty - unclean.

I don't like my wife's way of meeting me halfway.

she wrote me a letter that includes "I hate being touched let alone having sex with you. I'm so disgusting that it feels like you only come to me because you need a hole. You deserve sex but I don't feel that I can give it to you."

This is not a personal attack. It's my female POV, in hopes that it will help your marriage. Was there no cuddling or foreplay? You climbed on top and "did your thing". I apologize for being so frank, but no wonder she feels like a hole. I'm also bothered by the fact that you didn't realize how upset she was during the act. Sure, it was dark, but since she was so unresponsive, that should have been a big clue. Why did you continue? Looks like both of you have issues to discuss and work out together. Communication is key.

 

[meow_173]

she basically let me rape her the other day. Well, it was about 4 weeks ago now...

so - here's me trying to 'make love' to her, and I thought, "She's being even more unresponsive than I thought possible."... turns out, the whole time, she was lying there in the dark with her eyes closed trying not to cry - waiting for me to finish.

I didn't COERCE her into this: all _I_ did was say "I'm going to go brush my teeth then wait for you in the bed." Then I brushed my teeth, went to bed and started reading my book - HOPING she'd follow but not getting my hopes up in you know what I mean. Then she followed. Turned out the lights. Took off her pants. Got into the bed. Said "ok, come on then". I climbed on top, did my thing, and then that was that. I didn't find out until it was finished that she'd only done it because she thought "I deserve sex".

I felt dirty - unclean.

I don't like my wife's way of meeting me halfway.

she wrote me a letter that includes "I hate being touched let alone having sex with you. I'm so disgusting that it feels like you only come to me because you need a hole. You deserve sex but I don't feel that I can give it to you."

Wow...i'm so sorry.....Its not fair for you to be so unhappy in your relationship.......

 

[FooserX]

so are you going to get a divorce, Evil, or what?

(or cheat I guess)

 

[Amber]

Amber - as far as cybersex goes: do you allow your husband to hug his female friends? Don't you draw a line between mere gratification and actual intercourse?

I think that the word 'cheat' means different things to different people because every relationship is a different game with different rules. I actually don't want outsiders pointing their nose into my business - telling me what is and is not ok for my relationship: that reeks of Moral Majority.

I swear I'm not trying to tell you what is and isn't ok. Just merely telling you my opinion.

As for my husband hugging his female friends, nope, I don't mind at all. HOWEVER, that is ONLY because hands do not wander, mouths are not used, and genitals are not shown/used. Also, because it's a friendly hug, not a "hey, I wanna get in yer pants" kinna hug.

I also am a believer that different people have different views of cheating. In my relationship, anything that is sexually related and does not involve me is cheating. That includes cyber sex, looking at pornography alone, phone bone, kissing, whatever. I see no need for my husband to seek these circumstances with anyone other than me. However, we have a very healthy sex life.

But I do know people who do not mind if their partner looks at pornography while sexually gratifying themselves. It's not for me and my husband, but I certainly can't condemn someone for it.

 

[HappyMomma]

Amber... you said ''phone bone'! That cracked me up, thank you.

 

[evilbrent]

so are you going to get a divorce, Evil, or what?

(or cheat I guess)

happily - [almost] everything is ok again. the last few days have been like a breath of fresh air - I feel like she's back again.

I don't need her to be Lara Croft - Tomb Raider 24 hours a day, I'm not like that. But it is good that she's present when we're in the same room.

Cheating was never on the table. Divorce looks a long way off now.

At least, right now it does. I'm aware that these things come in cycles, that the cycles are getting worse each time, and that I'm getting less ok with it each time.

 

[evilbrent]

I swear I'm not trying to tell you what is and isn't ok. Just merely telling you my opinion.

oh, yeah yeah. Sorry. What I was trying to say was "I'm not here trying to get you guy's permission to cheat or anything - I'm just conducting a poll." There's one person here who doesn't think that 'happy ending' massages are cheating and plenty that think cybersex is obviously cheating.

I haven't had anyone come out in support of the Saudi practice of assuming that being alone in a car with a non-related man is the same as adultery...

looking at pornography alone,

huh? really? so, looking at porn together is ok? which is fine by the way, more power to you. Isn't that kind of the same thing though - using other people's nakedness / sexuality to visualise and fantasise about? sexualising people who aren't you?

and by 'looking at porn alone' do you mean that it would upset you to come out at 3am to find your husband on the pc... that's fair... or that if you went away for 3 weeks and you found out that one night in the second week he'd bought a playboy on the way home from work? there's porn use and then there's porn use IYKWIM...

But I do know people who do not mind if their partner looks at pornography while sexually gratifying themselves. It's not for me and my husband, but I certainly can't condemn someone for it.[/quote]

 

[evilbrent]

This is not a personal attack. It's my female POV, in hopes that it will help your marriage. Was there no cuddling or foreplay? You climbed on top and "did your thing". I apologize for being so frank, but no wonder she feels like a hole. I'm also bothered by the fact that you didn't realize how upset she was during the act. Sure, it was dark, but since she was so unresponsive, that should have been a big clue. Why did you continue? Looks like both of you have issues to discuss and work out together. Communication is key.

often-times she's not interested in kissing or cuddling. she's still 'interested' those times... come on, stop stalling, let's get going...

why did I continue? Sometimes when it's like that I do stop. guess i didn't notice that time. I was kinda preoccupied.

 

[musicmom]

So buy some play boys and put them under the sink and have a hay day in the shower. Problem solved.

 

[evilbrent]

:-D

uh uh.

There's a drought :-D

Anyway, I share a bath with the kids - there's just something about the presence of bath toys and squealing kids that doesn't do it for me :-D

 

[jtee]

Good to hear that things have gotten better for you Brent. Based on what you posted over time, it sound like that unless your wife is able to find the right kind of treatment that works for her, you will be experiencing this again and again. A very good buddy of mine battled this for 20 years, and is wife's mood swings did start to stabilize in her early 40s. For him, it was 20 years of hell, 50% of the time.

 

[jgomez65]

Please don't forget the post the phone number and address of the massage place, just in case I need to go to China
LOL

 

[Amber]

I haven't had anyone come out in support of the Saudi practice of assuming that being alone in a car with a non-related man is the same as adultery...

I'm iffy on this one actually. I will not ride alone with a male in the car unless it is my family member. Nor will I go to my husband's male family members or his male friend's houses alone. I don't want to take the risk of "guess who showed up at so-and-so's house and they were alone for hours...wonder what they were doing." I don't think it's cheating to ride alone with them, I just don't want to put myself in a postition where it might happen or might be gossiped about, ya know?

As for pornography together...we don't. I don't find anything wrong with it for other couples, if that's what they're into, but not for me. I don't need to visualize someone else, and I would hope my husband doesn't, either, with me sitting right beside him.

And for pornography if I was on a 3 week vacation...I dunno, honestly. I'd never be away from him long enough that he would need to resort to masturbation. BUT, in all honesty, men are men, just as women are women, and I don't think I would want him going that long without some kind of release. I don't like the idea of it, but couldnt fault him for it.

 

[Amber]

Amber... you said ''phone bone'! That cracked me up, thank you.

Heh. I do occasionally let a funny slip out.

 

[Mindy]

I have kind of a stupid question...

I have often heard people say "If you really loved me, you wouldn't have cheated" and to a degree, I agree

But I just don't think it automatically shows you don't love someone. I have never cheated on someone or been cheated on, but I know of people who did cheat, and I still do believe they love their partner (obviously there are problems but still)

What do you guys think?

Do you believe in that saying "If he would ever cheat under any circumstances, he never really loved me to begin with?"

 

[HappyMomma]

I have kind of a stupid question...

I have often heard people say "If you really loved me, you wouldn't have cheated" and to a degree, I agree

But I just don't think it automatically shows you don't love someone. I have never cheated on someone or been cheated on, but I know of people who did cheat, and I still do believe they love their partner (obviously there are problems but still)

What do you guys think?

Do you believe in that saying "If he would ever cheat under any circumstances, he never really loved me to begin with?"

I don't think so.

I think the statement "If you RESPECTED me, you wouldn't have cheated" is more appropriate.

 

[Mindy]

I agree.

And the reason I think it doesn't mean they don't love the person, is because humans are flawed Flawed and weak y'all