Telling your kids less than flattering things about yourself....

[singledad]

This is something that I've been thinking about for a long time, and something I will have to make my mind up about sooner rather than later, I think.

I concerns telling my daughter about my history. At this stage, she doesn't know that I've been anything other than her rather boring daddy. I can't count on her never finding out - since it really isn't a secret. My brother's kids have known all their lives that I have a history with substance abuse. There wasn't much chance of hiding it, especially from the eldest, since I only got clean after he was born. My brother and his wife have often used my history as a lesson in why exactly they should stay away from drugs.

My daughter is, thus far, blissfully unaware. Only yesterday, we went over the "you only take medicine if you really are sick, because if you're not sick taking medicine is bad for you" lesson again. Somewhere in there is an opportunity to tell her, but I just don't know how...

Something in me thinks she's too young, but then, as I've said - my brother's kids always knew. So what is "too young" really? I can't help but think that the longer I postpone it, the harder it will be.

What I do know, is that I don't want her to find out from someone else. Especially the fact that my addiction has also earned me a criminal record a few months of jail time.

I don't really know how to formulate the question in here. I need advice. I don't like keeping secrets from my daughter. I just don't know how to admit to that little girl who thinks I can do no wrong, that I can, and have, really screwed up badly in the past...

 

[Xero]

Wow, you know I guess I'm surprised that your brother's kids are just fully aware of your personal past information like that. That doesn't seem normal to me when I think about it, but it's hard to really judge when I'm not in your shoes. All I can tell you is my own experiences to give you something to go off of, I suppose. I personally don't think a 6 year old needs to know stuff like that. I don't necessarily think it will HURT her, I just don't see the benefit of it.

I didn't find out until I was an adult that my mom did a ton of coke in college, and in her words "but crack was my favorite" lmao. I was like wow mom, wow. See, I don't really know how that information would have registered in my mind if she had told me when I was 6 lol. I don't see how it would have benefited me. I also am not offended that she "kept it from me" until I was an adult. I really don't care. My best friend didn't find out until she was like 22 that her parents have been smoking pot her whole life (and still currently do it) lol. She was surprised, but certainly not mad and was also able to laugh it off. I'm not sure how she would have felt about it as a kid, but she wasn't offended they didn't tell her either. I am pretty sure I know of at least a couple of other people that found out similar things about their parents once they were late teens/adults.

My DH was into some bad stuff as a teenager too, but the thought of telling our kids hasn't even crossed our minds. I don't really feel like it's "kid" information, but that's just me maybe.

 

[singledad]

Wow, you know I guess I'm surprised that your brother's kids are just fully aware of your personal past information like that. That doesn't seem normal to me when I think about it, but it's hard to really judge when I'm not in your shoes.

I don't know if it's normal, really. You have to understand - I only got clean a few months after the oldest was born, and getting clean involved going away (those few months in jail, and then rehab etc) and only coming back when he was around 3 years old and his sister a baby - and then I lived with my brother and his wife for a while until I got a job and saved up enough to get my own place. Back then, it was a big deal, and I guess none of us paid much attention to not talking about it in front of him. So he knew, inevitably. And thereafter no one really treated it as a secret. It seemed kinda pointless. It's not a big deal anymore - it's not like every talks about it all the time. It just is what it is, KWIM?

(btw - they're considerably older than my DD - 18, 16 and 12).

My DH was into some bad stuff as a teenager too, but the thought of telling our kids hasn't even crossed our minds. I don't really feel like it's "kid" information, but that's just me maybe.

No, it doesn't seem like kid information, which is why I haven't told her yet. I feels like it would somehow spoil her Innocence, if that makes any sense.

But she will find out, sooner or later. Even though it's not a big-deal-being-discussed-all-the-time thing, it's not an unmentionable secret in my family either. Especially since I have to deal with some non-trivial health problems as a result of my misadventures. My brother's kids talk to me about it - they ask me questions about stuff they get exposed to and things they hear about drugs at school, and I do my best to give them the knowledge they need - that I never had.

I like what you say about not being upset when you found out, like it wouldn't be a big deal to just let her find out when she does and deal with it then. It would certainly be easier than telling her outright. I guess what I really want to avoid is her suffering some big shock/disappointment and feeling like I lied and hid things from her...

 

[cybele]

We have crossed this bridge with the older ones. Dita and Azriel know most things, they know about the drinking, drug use and prostitution, Sunny knows bits and pieces but not the full story, which she will know, preferably sooner rather than later, that girl is almost like a carbon copy of my personality, which really bothers me, especially as she is now into her teenage years. Lux and Sash really know nothing. Lux because she doesn't do anything that warrants these conversations, she's such a goody-two-shoes (not that I am complaining, but I really do think it would do her a bit of good if she would act out once in a while) and Sash because the biggest issue we face with him is "Don't touch that, it's dead/venomous/not a toy oh for crying out loud don't put it on your pocket".

On the topic of innocence, I think innocence is a good think when they're little, but a very bad thing as a teenager, I'm not saying that I want my teens to participate in certain activities, but I think knowledge is power and I want them to make educated decisions, rather than naïve ones, and if they do screw up, and I expect them to because everyone screws up, I want them to not fear coming to me for help because they think I won't get it or I will judge them for it, and so far it hasn't backfired.

That said, I think if you really want to say something and it is relevant to the situation then you can word it in a way that is age appropriate, such as on the topic of taking medicines not intended for you "When I was a lot younger I took something that I wasn't meant to take and it made me very sick, you know how (some negative effect she knows about) well, that is what happened, that is why it is important to only take medicine given to you by a doctor". Then when she is older you can elaborate on it more.

 

[akmom]

I read a study not too long ago concluding that it's best not to divulge these things to your children. I'm going to have to find it so you can read it yourself and make of it what you will. This one specifically examined marijuana use, and that parents who used it in the past send a stronger anti-drug message when they avoid confessing it.

I have a six-year-old and we have actually discussed the physiology of addiction at a first-grade level. Why do people do drugs? What is the harm? Why do they keep doing it if it's bad for them? Why can't they just stop?

Those are questions I had as a kid, and I only got answers like "they're stupid," or "they're evil," or "they thought it was cool." It was an unsatifsying answer to me, and though I never tried anything personally, I can understand how answers like that might not deter experimentation.

So I just told her that these things make people feel good, but the more you do it, the less it works. And then you have to have it just to feel normal. And people who stop doing it feel sad and in pain until they do it again. Then it stops working and they have to take more and more just to feel normal. So they get stuck doing it, because their body is addicted. That means they feel sad and have a lot of pain if they stop. So it's really hard, and they have to quit for a long, long time before it stops hurting.

The example I used was smoking, because it's something she has actually witnessed. But I also explained that there are worse addictions, that impair judgment, and I used drunk driving as an example. I didn't list off the different controlled substances there are, but she's aware that there are more than nicotine and alcohol, and that they're worse.

I never mentioned any family members' past addictions because I don't want her to lose respect for them. I didn't see any merit in divulging those things, and I didn't want to dilute the message by showing her how someone "good" like Grandma smoked, or someone "good" like Great Grandpa and Great Aunt used to be drunks. It might make these things seem not so bad to her after all, since obviously she has never seen the dark side of these people. And I don't want to paint that picture for her. I can paint that picture for her <I>without</I> putting a familiar face on it. And if she finds out later... we'll put it in perspective then. I found out things about my parents that contradicted the values they taught me, and I wasn't devastated.

 

[akmom]

Here's the article I referenced: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/22/telling-kids-about-past-drug-use_n_2740952.html[/URL]

 

[TabascoNatalie]

Depends on if the use was recreational/experimentation or abuse/addiction. In first case, i agree that this truth should be kept secret, second case -- you can be honest and share your experiences as an example of what it did to you.

As for a child of her age, it is enough to explain that illegal substances can make you very very ill

 

[singledad]

&lt;r&gt;Thanks Cybele and AKmom, that was really helpful!&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;br/&gt;
Tabasco - I wish I could say it was recreational, but it was pretty hard-core abuse/addiction that lasted 10 years and 4 ODs... Honestly, I don't know how I survived it. The fact that I'm still alive is what convinces me that there is a God out there, somewhere. &lt;br/&gt;

&lt;QUOTE author="TabascoNatalie;141477"&gt;&lt;s&gt;

&lt;/s&gt;As for a child of her age, it is enough to explain that illegal substances can make you very very ill &lt;E&gt;&lt;/E&gt;&lt;e&gt;

&lt;/e&gt;&lt;/QUOTE&gt;
And a few legal ones, if not treated with loads of respect &lt;E&gt;&lt;/E&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;br/&gt;
akmom – thanks for that study. I have read it, but I have yet to make up my mind whether it really applies to me. It seems to be more aimed at the type of person who smoked pot a few times, and perhaps experimented with some other things here and there, and then went on to become healthy and successful people. I can only wish I fell into that category.&lt;br/&gt;

&lt;QUOTE author="Cybele"&gt;&lt;s&gt;

&lt;/s&gt;that girl is almost like a carbon copy of my personality, which really bothers me, especially as she is now into her teenage years&lt;e&gt;

&lt;/e&gt;&lt;/QUOTE&gt;
I feel your pain! Steffi is a lot like me too – impatient, impulsive, always have to overdo everything she does. Seriously – that girl does not understand the concept of “enough”, and she isn't afraid to try anything. I have no idea how she hasn't broken a limb yet. It certainly isn't because she’s careful! (She’s gives me a heart-attack at least once a week!)&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;br/&gt;
The thing is, I can totally see her trying drugs, and not stopping at smoking pot once or twice... and my life can really be a very effective cautionary tale. Knowing the consequences I've had to face has certainly deterred my brother’s kids from experimenting. I know that at least the oldest two have been offered drugs – they both told me, separately, about the kids at school who use and all the misinformation that is being spread among their peers. See – this is the kind of openness I want to also foster with my own daughter.&lt;br/&gt;

&lt;QUOTE author="Cybele"&gt;&lt;s&gt;

&lt;/s&gt;knowledge is power and I want them to make educated decisions, rather than naive ones, and if they do screw up, and I expect them to because everyone screws up, I want them to not fear coming to me for help because they think I won't get it or I will judge them for it, and so far it hasn't backfired.&lt;e&gt;

&lt;/e&gt;&lt;/QUOTE&gt;
Exactly. For now, she’s six. Six year olds should be innocent. But when they reach their teens, innocence becomes naivety, and that is dangerous. Like akmom, no one taught me about drugs – we were simply told it was “wrong” and we shouldn't do it. To me, at 13 and looking for trouble, that seemed like an excellent reason to do as much of it as possible, as often as possible. &lt;E&gt;&lt;/E&gt;. As I've said above - I want to create a space where I can talk to her freely and with the authority of experience, but without the fear of being seen as a hypocrite. Obviously, I don't intend to go into every tiny detail. That simply isn't necessary. &lt;br/&gt;
&lt;br/&gt;
These days kids get exposed to drugs as early as 9/10, so I don't have too many years left in which to give her some knowledge.&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;br/&gt;
Cybele - if you don't mind me asking - how did you open the subject with Dita and Azriel?&lt;br/&gt;

&lt;QUOTE author="akmom"&gt;&lt;s&gt;

&lt;/s&gt;I never mentioned any family members' past addictions because I don't want her to lose respect for them.&lt;e&gt;

&lt;/e&gt;&lt;/QUOTE&gt;
I understand that, and it does worry me. On the other hand – my brothers kids have all the respect for me that I could wish for. I guess it has a lot to do with the fact that they were never taught that addicts are stupid, or bad people or losers or anything like that. They understand that addicts are simply ordinary people who made bad decisions in circumstances they don’t understand, and now they are stuck. I also don’t think it is healthy for something like that to become this big, unmentionable family secret. That is not conducive towards creating an environment where kids feel they can talk to their parents about anything.&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;br/&gt;
I love your description of addiction, though. Spot on, and very much age-appropriate for a six-year-old. I think I might borrow it when the opportunity presents itself &lt;E&gt;&lt;/E&gt;.&lt;/r&gt;

 

[cybele]

It would really bother me if my children lacked respect for someone based on past addiction or mistakes of their youth. I would consider that a massive failure on my part.

SD, it came up in a very round-about way. I generally like my kids to (unknown to them) open up the conversation and run with it. In this particular case, the topic came up very conveniently when we were watching Law and Order SVU, there was a prostitute and the police were trying to convince her to start a new life and you know, pretty much what features in every second episode, Azriel made the comment "What are the chances of a hooker living a normal life though?" and Ash and I just looked at each other and Ash said to me "I don't know, you live a relatively normal life now, don't you?" and it just went from there. Turns out that for once, listening to your mother was more interesting than the television. I think it was a very important thing for them to know, especially Azriel, as much as I will always love him, he is a judgemental snob, he has these ridiculously high standards for people that he doesn't actually fulfil himself, so this was a massive shock to him because he idolises his father and he pretty much just drilled him "How could you sleep with someone who had that many sexual partners?" "How could you marry her and feel okay with that?" and so on, which are all very fair questions and I have to give credit to my husband, he answered them really well.

I think it has done Azriel a world of good in hindsight, it has not effected our relationship at all, the change I have seen though is in his expectations of others, especially girls. His girlfriend, who is a lovely young lady, isn't quite the brightest crayon in the box, Lux (my other little intellectual snob, I don't know how I ended up with two of them) calls her "Brittany" (from Glee) but he has gotten to a point where he looks past that and values her for more than a perfect girl that he can show off.

As for the study, I honestly feel like I need to take that with a grain of salt, it is referring to casual marijuana use rather than actual addiction, which are worlds apart. It does also mention in the article that there are several other recent studies that contradict it. So really, you take what you think works for you.

 

[mom2many]

I can only speak from experience.

I have always approached these types of things, as they happen. I don't go out of my way to air all of the dirty laundry, but I also don't lie to them when they ask.

All of my kids know of my brother placed for adoption, he has 'friended' them on FB, including the younger, but only the older know it was because my siblings were in foster care and my mom had a drug problem. At some point they'll (the younger) will ask the right questions and get the right answers.

I do it on a need to know bases, not all things are needed to be known at a young age.

 

[singledad]

Thank again

mom2many - I hear you on not everything needing to be known at a young age. In fact, I don't think it serves a purpose to go into the finest, sordid details at any age.

I think I will follow cybele's advice from her first reply, and perhaps mention in an appropriate context that my current health problems are due to me taking things I shouldn't have taken when I was young. And I'll try to be ready to give more information if and when the opportunity presents itself.

I also read that article again, and it is definitely more aimed at people who experimented/dabbled. That is a very different scenario. I don't think I really need to worry about "normalizing" drug use.

 

[akmom]

Your story of moving in with your brother's family and recovering kind of reminds me of the movie <I>Things We Lost in the Fire</I>. When she is older, it might serve as an illustration of what you went through. It is not really a movie about recovering from addiction specifically - it's more about death of a family member and the grief process - but I think it's still a good character study on a recovering addict.

 

[singledad]

Things we lost in the fire... Mmm, I have to resort to IMDB to refresh my memory about it, but you’re right – it is a reasonable, even if somewhat overly melodramatic, character study of a recovering heroin addict. It certainly manages to bring home the message that addicts aren’t bad people – they’re just people who got themselves in trouble with bad decisions...

I'll keep it at the back of my mind, thanks.

 

[parentastic]

Something in me thinks she's too young, but then, as I've said - my brother's kids always knew. So what is "too young" really? I can't help but think that the longer I postpone it, the harder it will be. What I do know, is that I don't want her to find out from someone else. Especially the fact that my addiction has also earned me a criminal record a few months of jail time.

Hi SD, sorry if I am about to repeat what someone might have said already - the thread is quite old and I haven't read all the responses.

First, I'd say that the golden rule of healthy relationship is authenticity. So depending on the situation, I would avoid any direct lie or any response or choice that would lead her to think you purposely hid your past to her.

On the flip side, I do believe that children see their parents as incredible beings that can do no wrong and that it's actually quite good that they see you that way, at least when they are young and do not yet have the full cognitive capacity to see the nuances. I.e., if the alternative to "my dad is a hero" can only be "my dad is a bad guy" because their brain isn't yet ready to understand all the subtle differences, then i'd be careful.
At 6 years old, she is old enough for some of those nuances. But the fall she will take to realize her dad is not perfect is still going to be hard, depending on the context of how and when she learns, and from whom. If she interacts with your brother's kid (especially the 12 years old, as they may still play together since they don't have that big of an age gap) you have to be careful of a typical kid fight ending up with "my dad is better than yours" and the 12 years old using that knowledge to win the argument.

The 3rd thing that comes to mind are situations were kids ask sex related questions. The rule of thumb is that if they are old enough to ask the question, they are old enough to receive an honest and genuine answer that is all true, but with only enough details for them to understand the answer <I>at their own level</I>.
So I believe the same principle could be applied. Her age, the level and detail of her questions (if any) or of the given situation can determine the depth of the information you may want to give her, while never being untrue or unauthentic.

I also think that whatever you tell her, it would be easier if it's said casually and as the occasion arise over small details of everyday situations - rather than a big scary coming out from dad out of nowhere with no context. The more you make a big fuss out of it, the more she will see it as bad.
Perhaps the real story here is how people change and what matter is who they are now. And that can be a great thing to remove pressure so she knows even if she does something wrong, you can still be loved and make amends and change.

All in all, not an easy topic...