To fight or not to fight....

[bssage]

This is just something that has been bouncing around in the vast emptiness of my head for the last week or two. What caused it to get popped in there: was a local story about some parents suing the school because her daughter got in a fight on the school property. It did not really amount to much as far as law suits go. I think she won 2000 or somewhere along those lines.

The post: or my issue is if we dont learn when to: or not to: fight in GS or HS then we do we learn this lesson? Or is the answer to that question never?

For the record I am completely against bullying. I think schools have made great improvements in this area. So I am in no way advocating losing ground on the bullying front.

It just occurs to me that Grade school and High school is when I learned a lot of valuable lessons about fighting. That I can take a normal hit to the head. And that I cant take a normal hit to the nose. That there are things worth fighting over. And things that are not. That you have to be realistic about when to stand and when to run. That punishment for fighting is meted out without regard for the reason of the fight. The fight is punished not the motivation.

I wonder aloud if it makes sense to involve the law (which currently happens locally) for each combatant and each fight with assault charges that could limit a person's opportunities for education and jobs. I.E. If Cole got in a fight to stop someone from picking on his sister. Would it be fair to limit his opportunities to apply at certain education institutions?

Also one side effect of most the fight I had. Was an understanding with the other combatant. Normally I would developed good long lasting friendships with the people I had gotten in a fight with. Bonds were formed.

And the last question: Are we raising a generation who will be afraid to fight. Afraid to stand there ground for what they believe in? Who will become victims as a result of this fear? Is this what we want?

I know it potentially grey's the area of preventing bullying. And that is really what keeps me on the fence. I think bullying has historically been a very major problem. It has been ignored. And sometimes encouraged with disastrous results.

But I am not sure were are not inadvertently creating an even larger issue. You know the old saying "The path to hell is paved with good intentions"

 

[cybele]

I umm and ahh over this one and I don't think I have a definite stance.

I have only had once experience with my kids fighting, and it was Sunny, and the school let her off with pretty much no punishment (which I was NOT okay with) because she was fighting with a boy (and she beat him up, she came out of it with a few scratches, he was bruised up pretty badly) and they had this little freak out about the "poor sweet innocent girl" when in reality she threw the first punch (not to mention, the vast majority of punches).

From what I understood of the fight, this boy saw Sunny's friend slide something discreetly from her bag to her pocket, and he snatched it out of her pocket, realised that it was a tampon and went on a teasing spree. So Sunny beat him up.

I was mortified that she resulted to violence, because it goes against everything her father and I have ever taught her, but I was proud of her for sticking up for her friend, who was being humiliated and very secretly I was quite impressed that she had the strength knock down a boy almost twice her size.

I try to teach my kids to fight with their intelligence. For the most they are pretty good at this. I don't think that physical violence is ever the answer (or that one needs to know where they can take a hit) and I don't think there is a direct correlation between throwing a punch and standing up for what you believe in, in fact, I believe that fighting hinders that, it makes your cause less believable.

I do believe that assault charges for small children is a little over the top though. I think with teenagers you do need to assess it on a case-by-case scenario.

 

[bssage]

I was quite impressed that she had the strength knock down a boy almost twice her size.

I had snapped a girls training bra that I was flirting in a very misguided way. I said I was sorry and allowed her to take a free shot. That was the second mistake I made that day. She rang my freaking bell so hard it was unreal. Then I had to pretend not to cry in the circle of girls that came to see the "free shot" The lesson? Free shots are for idiots. And girls dont like boy's who snap their training bra's.

I try to teach my kids to fight with their intelligence.

And I completely agree with this. But at the same time. I dont want my boy to run and hide because he is afraid of getting hit. And more than that. I want him to step up to the plate if someone is being bullied or picked on. And more than that, I want him to make sure no harm comes to his sister.

Now before you all jump on my butt for an apparent double standard. Chloe has special circumstances (she would never see it coming). Without those I would take a similar approach with her.

 

[mom2many]

I think there is a difference between bullying and defending oneself.

My kids know better then to throw the first swing, but if someone throws a swing at them...they have my blessing to do what they need to do to close it out. Not take it overboard though.

When Ted was in school he had one good friend, he was well liked by everybody, but they didn't always know how to interact with him. this one friend probably wasn't the best choice, but he did love Ted and would do just about anything for him. so back to high school.

Ted and his friend weren't as close, but they did still interact and he still was Ted's protector. The friend had other friends and they weren't as comfortable with Ted. Not a huge deal cause Ted is a loner by nature.

Well said friends of "C" asked them to bring Ted over to them cause they wanted to ask him something. Thinking nothing of it C went and got Ted. When Ted got there one of the other boys said something and then out of nowhere punched Ted in the face. No provocation what so ever. C was shocked and did manage to push the kid off.

I get a call from the school saying Ted needs to be checked because in the process his face hit the concrete wall. He was fine other then some bruising and scratches. The boys involved were punished, not once did I think to press charges, and C did get into trouble but not anything to bad. I tried to stop that because even the other boys admitted he didn't know what was going to happen.

Fast forward a few months, and it's snowing. Ted get's s snowball and packs that puppy tight, he waits and when one of the other boys makes a comment to him (did not know they were still being jerky) Ted takes aim and fires...right in the face. It's like being hit with a rock.

He did not get into trouble, after some looking into they learned (and I) that these kids had kept up their crap. Ted is shy, and that is putting it nicely. His teachers goals every year was to see which teacher he would talk to first. It would usually take at least a semester before he would say anything to anyone. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kinda behind the scenes bet.

A week later all the boys were expelled, not C though.

There is some part to life about taking responsibility and doing what you need to do. Ted was not right, yet I understood why he did it. I think taking care of himself was huge for him.

 

[akmom]

The post: or my issue is if we dont learn when to: or not to: fight in GS or HS then we do we learn this lesson? Or is the answer to that question never?

I think that ideally, yes. It's never.

It just occurs to me that Grade school and High school is when I learned a lot of valuable lessons about fighting. That I can take a normal hit to the head. And that I cant take a normal hit to the nose.

Those are valuable lessons to learn if your adult life is going to constitute brawls. I think for most people that is not the case, and it is realistic to go your whole life without a violent altercation. I mean, I have no idea where I can take a punch. I'm almost 30, and have never needed to know.

And the last question: Are we raising a generation who will be afraid to fight. Afraid to stand there ground for what they believe in? Who will become victims as a result of this fear? Is this what we want?

I think the question is, does the average person need to be a skilled fighter? I doubt it. I think certain people need to be, and those people get trained for that (military, police, competitive boxers, etc). I doubt they got a whole lot of benefit from experiences on the playground, compared to their professional training. In terms of self-defense, there are more useful resources available for the average person (firearms, mace, Tazers, etc). So on a practical level, it's hard to imagine a situation in which you would need to physically defend yourself, but where it would be inappropriate to use weapons.

But on an ideological level, I can understand the desire to have certain skills in reserve. In that case, I think a self-defense course would be more useful than the occasional playground spat.

 

[singledad]

I think I actually agree with akmom.

When I was younger I wouldn't have - I also learned now to fight when I was kid, and for many years I was proud of how easily I could level just about anyone, even though I don't really look like the type. I even know how to get a knife out of an assailant's hands...

But the truth is, the only times I've had to use those skills were when I got myself into situations where I really had no business to be. You don't run into guys with knifes in corporate corridors

I think it is much more important to teach kids how to handle conflict without resorting to fighting. I remember how knowing that I can hold my own in a fight gave me some confidence, but I think knowing that I can handle any situation that I could run into (in places other than back-alleys) without loosing my dignity, would have given me a lot more confidence...

Some self-defense is always good, though. Here I agree with akmom again - self-defense classes are worth much more than school-ground brawls.

 

[cybele]

You don't run into guys with knifes in corporate corridors

You clearly don't work in the bridal industry :laugh: crazy knife-wielding brides to be screaming demands that don't make sense EVERYWHERE! (Okay, maybe they don't have knives, but they don't need them, they're scary enough without)

 

[singledad]

You clearly don't work in the bridal industry :laugh: crazy knife-wielding brides to be screaming demands that don't make sense EVERYWHERE! (Okay, maybe they don't have knives, but they don't need them, they're scary enough without)

LOL. Yup, I'm suddenly REALLY glad that I don't