12 year old... hygiene......

[kassierossiter]

ok so my sd will be 12 in 3 days... i cannot get her to take care of herself... her father cant either for that matter...

1. she will not shower unless specifically told to do it
2. wont brush teeth unless specifically told to do it
3. wont brush her hair unless specifically told to do it
4. wont wear a bra unless specifically told to do it
5. wont put on deodorant unless specifically told to do it..

now we have been working on all of these issues for a year and a half. it was explained to her when she came to live with us that she is expected to care for herself in these ways... we have understood this is new for her and been very understanding... now NOTHING has changed.

we have tried the "leave her to be nasty and realize for herself" approach... i did not say anything to her for 10 days... she didnt even change her clothes durring that time let alone shower or brush her hair or anything else.

*note: this was a couple weeks ago we tried this tactic ... while she was home and had no where to go (i couldnt let her do this and go to school or anywhere... lol) she also has very long very curly hair so it looks BAD when not brushed everyday...*

we have tried letting it go and mentioning the issue to a select couple of people hoping their comments would work.... things like my sister taking note and when noticing she hadnt changed clothes and her hair looked nasty on top of body odor as sd was trying to give her a hug my sister bluntly asked her when she showered ect last and politely told her that she needs to do those things because honestly she smells... :embarrassed:

now these are extreme tactics... they were the last resorts... after trying the consequences methods first...

she also will not wear a bra... which if she is wearing a tshirt around the house wouldnt be a huge deal... but she not only tries to go out in public without one but to school as well and also EVERYDAY comes out of her room in a tanktop that is slightly too large or lower cut shirt made to have an undershirt worn with it and no bra so she is hanging out inappropriately... everyday she is told to either change to a tshirt or put a bra on and unless you stand there and watch her she still doesnt do it... you can get busy with something else and an hour later or whatever she has yet to change!

hubby and i are at the end of our patience with this situation!!!

she sees that her little brother (age 9) takes care of himself... no he might not shower every single day without prompting... but will make sure he is showered etc at least every other day unless told otherwise.... he is starting to figure it out.... but she is not...

any thoughts?

 

[sbattisti]

Hmm, my first thought would be to sit down and try to understand WHY she doesn't do these things? That might help understand how you could change it.

My second thought would be, what are the ramifications if she doesn't do these things? I'm not big into the punishment/reward stuff, but in a case as drastic as this, I might be inclined to go there. For example, does she spend time on the computer? Video games? Etc.? Seems to me to be reasonable to simply say, "No personal hygiene, no computer time," for example.

Just some thoughts. Another idea would be counseling of some kind...

Good luck!

 

[Hartz75]

Ouch that is a tough one. I agree there needs to be some form of punishment for her not doig what she is told.

I do wonder why she does not want to take care either? Does she have friends?

 

[IADad]

at first, I kind of laughed at the counseling suggestion, but seriously, is there a reason she wants to go against society, or does she have low self-esteem already? ... there may be something there...

 

[kassierossiter]

If she has low self esteem she sure hides it well.... She is very sure of herself..... To the point of letting her clothes slide into unappropriate places I almost wonder if she is TRYING to show her body!

She does have a few friends and I know one of them has said things to her about the way she takes care of herself and it doesn't seem to matter to her......

We have gone the punishment route... Proly gunna have to go back to that just a little changed up....

 

[Xero]

It is problematic that she doesn't do these things on her own. :/ I would probably pin it on laziness or just a lack of realization of how important it is. I think all you can really do is stay on top of it, always make her do it because its important to make sure our kids stay clean and looking appropriate even if they should be doing it themselves at that age. If it were me, when I saw her without a bra or wearing a shirt inappropriately I would send her to her room to change and explain why I did it. If I knew she needed a shower, I would always tell her to go do it and remind her that she needs to be clean and why its important (talk about infections, embarassment, germs, etc.) every time you tell her if you can. Always ask her if she brushed her teeth, and if she didn't have her go do it and remind her why that's also important (bad breath, embarassment, gingivitis, cavities, staining etc). Same thing with deoderant.

I imagine she will eventually get tired of you bugging her, and either way she will fall into habbit and take over doing it herself. And trust me, I can guarantee that its probably just her age and personality type. My sister was the same way, and once she turned I think about 16 she was suddenly obsessed with personal hygeine etc. I'm sure its just a phase. She'll eventually realize how important it is and she'll want to keep up with it. Just stay consistent.

 

[AmyBelle]

Im going to ignore problem number 4 because im very anti-bra and no way would I EVER encourage my daughters to wear one, and my money will never ever purchase one of those vile things for them

As for the others, id take the focus away from her appearance, and put it onto her health. See if you can find some information on hygeine, in the long haul, whether her hair looks pretty or not is irrelevant, if there are forgeoin objects getting matted in there because she wont wash or comb it, then its a problem.
Id even try to get a doctor to give her a chat on the importance of hygeine, especially now that she's getting older and will be more prone to infections such as thrush or uti's.

 

[Jordy]

you wouldn't buy your daughters a bra even if they were size 10 with DD breasts??? that seems lie it would end in pain for them wouldn't it amy?? i in no way claim to be an expert in bra's (or woman for that matter) but i thought they were a useful or they wouldn't have been invented

 

[Jeremy+3]

Bra's are just there to make your boobs look 'nice' e.g. bigger than they really are, it's appearance thing, not a function thing, unless you have a specially designed bra for fibrocystic disease.

 

[Jeremy+3]

1. she will not shower unless specifically told to do it
Why doesn't she like washing? Unless you know exactly why she doesn't want to, you can't really turn the washing thing around. We are self cleaning beings, so we don't actually need to wash, it doesn't have any physical benefits, just societies new norm. Just remember when you make her shower, make sure she knows not to use soap/shower gel on her lady parts, otherwise she may get thrush.
My brother isn't a fan of the shower, at 33 he always mildly smells, he knows he smells, but he doesn't care, so he doesn't bother.

2. wont brush teeth unless specifically told to do it
Does she have gum disease or anything? Until I was about 14 I would do absolutely anything to avoid brushing my teeth, standard tooth pastes irritate my mouth, but we didn't figure it out until I had prescribed tooth paste when I had my brace. What does your dentist say about her teeth? How often is she going to the hygienist?

3. wont brush her hair unless specifically told to do it
That wouldn't bother me, you choose your own appearance, as long as they aren't naked in public I'm not fussed. Although you could consider the nickname worzel gummidge.

4. wont wear a bra unless specifically told to do it
She doesn't need to wear a bra.

5. wont put on deodorant unless specifically told to do it..
I've never worn deodorant, and I don't stink, I'm not being biased either!

A lot of people have a smelly stage, especially when they are in the beginnings of puberty, while it is a bit annoying and offensive to your nose it is normal, so don't worry too much.

 

[sbattisti]

I really do suspect that this phase will ultimately run its course naturally (most likely when a boy tells her she stinks, or when kids start teasing her).

For that reason alone, I'm very torn about the punishment route, because it seems like that is only going to make her dig her heels in further. I think I like what Xero said: without being confrontational, whenever she fails to do things on her own, just force her to do them immediately. Don't get angry, don't yell, just matter-of-factly tell her she has to go take a shower/change her clothes/whatever, even if it means interrupting something else.

You could also subtly design incentives, too. For example, explain that because she is so resistant to taking care of these things on her own, she will need to wake up 30 minutes earlier each day, or start getting ready for bed 30 minutes earlier each day, because it's taking that additional time to convince her to do these things.

Oh, and one other thing, not to derail the conversation, but:

We are self cleaning beings, so we don't actually need to wash, it doesn't have any physical benefits, just societies new norm.

Huh? So all of those medical studies showing the benefits of washing hands in reducing the transmission of disease and so forth, it's all bunk? I'm really confused about that statement.

 

[Jordy]

i would assume having two large lumps of fat on your chest would cause some form of back pain especially in a small statured woman.. wouldn't anything holding them up and in place cause relief from this?

 

[Jeremy+3]

I really do suspect that this phase will ultimately run its course naturally (most likely when a boy tells her she stinks, or when kids start teasing her).

For that reason alone, I'm very torn about the punishment route, because it seems like that is only going to make her dig her heels in further. I think I like what Xero said: without being confrontational, whenever she fails to do things on her own, just force her to do them immediately. Don't get angry, don't yell, just matter-of-factly tell her she has to go take a shower/change her clothes/whatever, even if it means interrupting something else.

You could also subtly design incentives, too. For example, explain that because she is so resistant to taking care of these things on her own, she will need to wake up 30 minutes earlier each day, or start getting ready for bed 30 minutes earlier each day, because it's taking that additional time to convince her to do these things.

Oh, and one other thing, not to derail the conversation, but:



Huh? So all of those medical studies showing the benefits of washing hands in reducing the transmission of disease and so forth, it's all bunk? I'm really confused about that statement.

There is a difference between washing your hands and be a self cleaning animal, we are self cleaning because the bacteria on our body keeps us clean and moisturised, if we never wash our hair we never have greasy/smelly hair, we don't need to wash our genitals, they do that themselves, our ears and nose are self cleaning as well.

 

[IADad]

i would assume having two large lumps of fat on your chest

just because you son't like ice cream with chocolate sauce, doesn't mean you have to try to ruin it for the rest of us....

 

[Xero]

Bra's are just there to make your boobs look 'nice' e.g. bigger than they really are, it's appearance thing, not a function thing, unless you have a specially designed bra for fibrocystic disease.

Honestly I wear a bra even to bed because I am uncomfortable without one on. I mean maybe that's because I've always worn one so I'm too used to it, but that's what it is for me. I get REALLY uncomfortable without one, its kinda painful honestly. I don't want to be specific though, it will get totally perverted. Its not due to back pain though, my boobs just aren't that big. Enough about my boobs though, we've already had this bra conversation and its clearly a cultural thing. AmyBelle happens to live in an area of the world where bras are not a cultural norm, so its completely acceptable for her girls to go without them just like all the other girls around them. HOWEVER where I live and in many many parts of the world, bras are a social norm and it looks unacceptable when a girl with developed breasts goes around without one on. Mainly because you can see details through most shirts without a bra on. Its a social thing, and for a lot of people its a COMFORT thing. For most girls I know, its uncomfortable to go without one. Probably force of habbit, really. These things differ from place to place, and that's alright. But Jeremy, maybe where kassie lives, it IS important to wear a bra, so there's no need for you to really tell her matter-of-factly that her daughter "does not need to wear a bra".

1. she will not shower unless specifically told to do it
We are self cleaning beings, so we don't actually need to wash, it doesn't have any physical benefits, just societies new norm. Just remember when you make her shower, make sure she knows not to use soap/shower gel on her lady parts, otherwise she may get thrush.

I keep reading this over and over again and its making me feel kinda sick. Human beings have been using soap to wash themselves for hundreds of years, probably longer than that.

Soap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I wont copy paste the whole History section but you should read it. Its not any kind of new lol. Of all things that are new, soap is so not one of them. And private parts are a very important place to use soap!! Ugh I don't even want to think about the smells that would come off of a person who didn't use soap in that area. Yuck! D:

Everyone I know uses soap in that area, everyone. Everyday since we were born. Nobody gets thrush from washing with soap.

What you want to tell people, is not to use heavy scented soap on that area because it can be irritating.

Its so important to stay clean, and soap is a huge part of that, sometimes you say some things that just blow my mind Jeremy.

 

[www777]

I also think that it is a phase and that you should just bite the bullet and tell her to shower/brush etc. Sooner or later she will become concious about her body and naturally try to make herself more approachable.

It would probably help you to understand better if you do sit her down in a conversation and enquire why she doesnt like cleaning herself. Maybe if you understand why then it will help you to know what direction to take.

 

[Jeremy+3]

Xero, did you know thrush is the main cause of soap in women/girls, you know those down below soaps, they don't actually clean anymore than water will, its kind of like how if a shower gel doesn't foam you don't feel clean, the foaming action of a down below soap makes you think you're clean, because that is what you're used to. Spermicide can do the same as well.
If you do use normal soap down there you are likely to smell, because it kills the bacteria that keeps you clean, hey, I watch embarrassing bodies too much, I just can't help it. The only place you should use normal soap is on your bum, as poo is fatty, but I always think, surely we're capable of wiping our backsides...

 

[Xero]

Omg o___o

First of all you said thrush causes soap lol usually I don't pick on typos but that one was funny.

But I gotta tell ya, the main cause of yeast infections is generally antibiotics, not soap.



"Yeast infections are caused by an overgrowth of the normal fungi that lives in the vaginal area. The most common fungi is <I>Canidida albicans.</I> Overgrowth of <I>Canidida</I> is often a result of recent use of antibiotics, or by wearing clothing such as nylon or lycra that traps moisture and heat. Other factors that often contribute to yeast infections include pregnancy, obesity, PMS, multiple sclerosis, and diabetes. Yeast infections are common among women infected by HIV and women who suffer from recurrent episodes of yeast infection should be tested for HIV infection. Other possible causes include the use of oral contraceptives, and consuming large amounts of sugars, starch, and yeasts. "

Vaginal Yeast Infections - Facts About Vaginal Yeast Infection


Soap might have a possibility of causing them, but only the ones that have too much fragrance or that have sugar in them. You have to be careful what you use, and you can't OVER wash. Its more like, if you had recurring yeast infection problems, then you might want to avoid using soap on that area.

Either way, I am so done talking about this... o___o

 

[TabascoNatalie]

maybe its time when other kids (especially BOYS) would say something to her.
I think it will go with age -- probably she doesn't see herself as a lady yet.
as for long curly hair -- maybe she would perfer shorter hair?

 

[kassierossiter]

wow... maybe i should have posted this in the debate section? :biggrin:

as far as teh bra thing goes... i live in the smack dab middle of the US and unfortunately socioty here sees girls without bras and the words "trashy" "slutty" "easy" etc come to mind and often out of their mouths.... i personally HATE to wear my over the shoulder boulder holder all the time... so i would LOVE to have teh people around here not give two hoots... but they do...

the whole "dont use soap we are self cleaning..." issue??

maybe that too is cultural? all i know is i have used soap (even on womanly parts) my whole life and never had an infection because of it... as far as she goes... when she came to live with us... she was very overweight... according to doctor she was even labled as obese. she hadnt been cleaning herself properly prior to comming to us and because of that she had infections all over her skin. rashes and discolored parts and a yeast infection so terribly bad it had gone under her skin and took 6 months of cream and soap and water scrubbing to clear it up...

funny that i just realized this, but maybe due to her living conditions prior to comming to us it has some how been ingrained into her that cleanlliness is over rated? hmmm....

the hair thing... she does want short hair and i have told her that once she shows me she can take care of herself we will get her hair cut anyway she would like.... we have had many sit down talks and even had the doctor talk to her about keeping clean and caring for herself... she has been told time and again that we are treating short hair as a privledge... she needs to earn it. im using this as a teaching tool. unfortunately it is not working for me! lol

the teeth brushing? she has bad teeth... dont know if its a "disease" or not but they are discolored and get that nasty stuff on them very easily... she has had multiple fillings as well...

so anyhow... ive found it quite interesting (though some a bit disturbing) to learn everyones views on self care....