20 yr old no longer communicates - a bit long......

[dad_of_son]

Hi Everyone,

I used to come here a lot for my son a while ago. Now I'm back with a story about our 20 yr old daughter. Recently she doesn't communicate with us anymore. I haven't seen her all day today (she lives at home with us) and not since 1pm yesterday after she said she's treated like crap. Here's what's been happening and I'd like to get some feedback on what you think. Daughter has stayed out of trouble. As far as I know she doesn't drink, has told us of times when someone has given her a drink, doesn't smoke. Really hasn't given us anything to worry about. She goes to community college as a sophomore, freshman year was at a university, lived on campus and hated it said everyone partied too much and always talked about sex. We let her use our 3rd vehicle to get to/from school and for work. She pays gas, we pay insurance and up keep. Now the problem spots. She keeps the vehicle a mess. Her bedroom is a mess, sometimes dirty plates/dishes. Normally I wouldn't care about the bedroom, but there is a 2nd bed in there and if we have family come to visit, we want them to use the 2nd bed. Wife is more upset about the bedroom mess than I am. We wanted to use the vehicle yesterday that she uses because it seats more than our other vehicles - we had a planned outing, but unexpected number to transport. I needed to clean the mess at the last minute. Daughter was fuming mad - but I can only guess why. Here is a big spin on it. My wife had asked daughter's ex-bf to spend the night since our outing was early in the morning. The ex-bf is friends - if you want to call it that - with our 15 yr old son - 10 yr diff. The break-up was bad - the ex-bf had said indirect bad things about my wife and daughter - basically that she is going to ruin her life with the people she hangs out with. OK - so, ex-bf was there at the vehicle when I was going to clean it out. Not sure why daughter got fuming mad - she won't communicate. Later that day (which was yesterday) I sent her a text msg stating she needs to have the vehicle cleaned out by 9pm the following night otherwise mom & dad will do it. Its 11pm - no sign of her - she might be cleaning it at her current bf's house - but I don't know. She usually is home around midnight. My wife thinks I'm to soft with our daughter - she thinks we need to make it less easy so that she'll be more likely to move out. I'm concerned she'll move out on a hasty decision.

Any comments?

 

[Xero]

Well... first of all, and I know this is off-topic, but it really affects our forum as its not the busiest place. Please be careful about how old a topic is before posting in it. Several seriously old topics are now at the top of the list because you posted in them, and it is against the rules
( http://www.parentingforums.org/f17/rules-guidelines-read-before-posting-7179.html[/URL] )
to post in a thread that has a last post dated thirty days or older. Not the biggest deal ever, just thought I'd fill ya in. Otherwise, welcome to the forum!!

About your daughter - Honestly, for now I wouldn't be worried about her. She is 20 years old, and as you said, doesn't get into trouble. If she's out for a long time without telling you where, I doubt she's doing anything wrong, she's just upset and needs time to cool off. She is an adult so try not to get worked up about that.

To be perfectly honest with you, I would be completely enraged if my ex-boyfriend who had caused me a lot of stress and grief in the past (particularly with a bad break up, including harsh feelings that probably still hurt to think about) was invited to a family trip and especially to spend the night in my own home!! I don't care if my little brother thinks he's friends with him (I'm sorry, but come on there's a TEN YEAR DIFFERENCE?? Guy needs to grow up). I know this sounds mean, but that just seems very thoughtless and uncaring to me. I know my mom would never agree to me inviting her cheating ex-husband with us on a family trip that she might be around for, I mean come on. I couldn't even imagine her reaction to me suggesting he spend the night in the same place as her. Lets look at each other as equals here. Should it really play a part in your decisions that she is just your child, rather than another respected adult with important feelings? That is a terribly uncomfortable situation for you guys to put her in without considering how she might feel. You would never stand for it, if it were you. So I can see why she is so upset with you. Plus, you kind of displayed her embarassingly dirty car off to the guy on top of all that (of course, her own fault for being dirty, but you yourself said that the idea of taking her car was unexpected, and that is not her fault, because I can almost bet any money had she known ahead of time all this would happen, she'd have had it sparkling haha). I'm getting mad just thinking about somebody doing that to me, but maybe I'm just weird I don't know. Maybe if you would have gone to her saying "Hey, we need to use your car, it needs to be clean, so if you don't want us in there, can you go clean it out so we can use it?" no need to show the whole world her messy car. I totally agree, she SHOULD keep it cleaner! Don't get me wrong!! But hey, you should see my car lol. It could use a good cleaning hahaha. The only thing that I am trying to point out there, is that its not a very big deal that her car is dirty. Things could be much worse, let me tell ya.

As for the dirty room... yeah, that does sound annoying. I don't think its a big deal, and really what I've learned by watching my five younger siblings grow and being forced to do the majority of the work of raising them is that, out of all the other things life hands out to you, cleaning your room is one of the least important things. As long as its not down right repulsive haha I wouldn't get too worked up. Food and plates being in there, that's gross and I personally wouldn't tolerate it, as my mom raised us with a strict no food in the bedrooms rule. Matter of fact, we were ONLY allowed to eat in the kitchen. But it was very important that food not get taken into the bedroom, because who knows what will happen to it next. That also contributes to pests, so it was always a big nono for us. You could always try putting that rule into affect, there's really no reason she should need to eat in her room. You have a kitchen (I would assume) for that.

And if you decide that you can't deal with the car or bedroom being messy, or any of her other behavior, or just her presence as an adult in general, that is understandable and my only advice in that matter is for you to either ask her to pay rent (and pay for her own car) in order for her to live and drive as she pleases (to an extent of course) if she's going to be that way, OR you need to start giving her a stronger push into the real world, to get her own place. As she's getting older, she is going to be harder to control, and that's only natural as she is becoming more and more of an adult. If you cannot handle accepting that your child will be making her own decisions and no longer following your parental guidance, and the fact that you are no longer (for the most part, to a reasonable extent of course) in control, then its completely within your rights and also perfectly acceptable for you to insist that she get out on her own.

On a last note, as far as her not communicating with you right now, just give it a couple more days, and maybe leave her a couple of gentle voicemails, and let her get back to you on her own. It's just a couple of days out of your life, that's how I try to look at it. Wait a couple of days, give her a little time, and I bet you any money she'll get back to you and you guys will probably have a lot of talking to do because I think more than anything this was just a big misunderstanding. I know I said all that would make me mad (and it would) but I also don't think maybe that you thought about it, and she probably didn't think about it from your point of view, so figure it that way and you'll probably feel better about everything and when she figures that out she'll probably feel a little better too.

This is all just my honest, not holding back, opinion!! Please forgive me if it sounds like I'm being too forward. Either way, good luck with your daughter!

 

[dad_of_son]

Xero,

I appreciate you replying to my topic. I admit, I did not read the rules. Usually forum rules state not to post anything negative about other users, don't use profanity or other offensive words. Don't post anything obscene... Things I don't do - so I figured I'm safe. Obviously not with older posts.

You are not being too forward - I'm looking for honest feedback. I know I'm not the perfect parent (or husband).

Funny how things get interpreted. I mentioned my daughter not being around simply to indicate the current status - however, I realize that it needs comparison to her usual behavior. Anyway, point being she is upset, it just saddens me to have it this way. I don't blame her, and I agree with what you said with everything but the car. I was against the ex-bf spending the night - and had said that to my wife - but she went ahead and told him to spend the night anyway. I also agree about the 10 yr age difference. The ex-bf should be making plans to be on his own - he is still living at home with his parents. I'm surprised how much time he spends with my son, and my son's friends of close age.

I feel I'm in a difficult position - trying to do what is fair with my daughter, and trying to be a united front with my wife. My wife thinks I'm being too easy on my daughter. You are right, the messy room is no big deal - except for the food. She doesn't cause any worries either. She is very quiet when she gets in, usually around midnight - I rarely, if ever, hear her. I think the messy car can be a safety issue. She could get distracted, or something could roll under the brake or gas pedal and get in the way.

We'll see what happens next. I didn't go check the car to see if she cleaned it out or not.

 

[IADad]

As for the mess, I think there are a lot of details missing, is it really really messy or sort of messy (i.e. does she know and agree that it's messy or does she think you're too anal about the cleanliness?) What about the communication, have standards and expectations been addressed previously. Has she been told, or asked to clean the car...a lot of difference can be made deepending on tone and wording...

If she feels she's being treated like crap, maybe it's time for a talk about how difficult it is for adults to live with each other , that these things are give and take...

It seems (and this is just my view from the outside based on what you've shared) that she has a pretty sheltered view of the world. Was she really surpised that college students drank partied and talked about sex? And she really couldn't deal with that?

I don't know that I'd make it intentionally "Harder" on your daughter to get her to move out, that seems sneaky and underhanded. She should want to be moving out, that's part of what being all grown up is about. There's a difference between living at home, to save expenses, be frugal and responsible and being shelterd and well, maybe too comffortable with how things have always been. Maybe you can help her dream, explore more.... intentionally driving a wedge between her and you doesn't seem like a good plan to me.


the ex-bf thing is strange, not a little odd, strange, really really strange. He shouldn't be making plans he's an adult, he should be living his life and hanging around with 15 yos is not in any way normal or healthy, I not only wouldn't be asking him to stay the night, I'd be changing the locks, getting restraining orders or moving (okay, I exagerate for affect)

 

[bssage]

15 and 25 that sounds creepy, very creepy. I cant imagine how that could be work out in your sons favor. I agree 110% with xero. And alot of adults have poor car cleaning habits (me). She may take better care if she footed the total cost and if the car is something she can take a little pride in.

just IMO

 

[fallon]

I have to say, I agree 100% with the things that have been said thus far

 

[dad_of_son]

Dirty dishes, fork(s) on the floor - can't see the floor - that's not good in my opinion - but there are some things not getting bent out of shape over.
As for the car, you can't sit in it without crunching something with your shoes. It could be a safety issue.

I think she was surprised as to the extent of the partying and drinking and sex related talk (activities??). Sheltered - maybe.
I'm not trying to make it harder, my wife is doing that. Wife thinks I'm too soft on her - which could be true.

As for the mess, I think there are a lot of details missing, is it really really messy or sort of messy (i.e. does she know and agree that it's messy or does she think you're too anal about the cleanliness?) What about the communication, have standards and expectations been addressed previously. Has she been told, or asked to clean the car...a lot of difference can be made deepending on tone and wording......

the ex-bf thing is strange, not a little odd, strange, really really strange. He shouldn't be making plans he's an adult, he should be living his life and hanging around with 15 yos is not in any way normal or healthy, I not only wouldn't be asking him to stay the night, I'd be changing the locks, getting restraining orders or moving (okay, I exagerate for affect)

 

[Aunt]

I agree with much said already
am a little surprised a kid would quit college because of the other kids "wild ways" surely there were some groups with like minded kids on campus? Could she have some problems with shyness or fitting in? She may want to talk to a counsellor there.
it sounds like everyone is getting on each other nerves. Maybe you can sit down together and come up with some basic house rules that you all agree on.
I would take the view that her room is her business & just shut the door, but the car is communal & has to be kept in a certain condition.
I would also have a frank conversation about the plan in general. How long is she looking to stay for? Just college years or after as well? maybe your wife is nervous that there is no time line. You want to do everything to help but not shelter to the point that she is scared of the world. It can be a fine line. Good luck

 

[16th ave.]

a question that came up is:
when did your dd's attitude start to change? was it out of the blue or a gradual change?

the car: i'd tell her to take care of it or she doesn't have the priviledge of using it since she's only footing the bill for her gas usage. there is also the dangers of something rolling under her feet at any given time and causeing a serious wreck and the fact that she shares the car with others. not everyone likes to get in a car that is full of trash everywhere or even junk in general all over the place in it.

her room: does she pay any bills at home such as room and board, etc.? if not then keep it clean or she can find somewhere else to lay her head. the bedroom door can't just be closed and left alone since the room it is also for guests when the spare bed is needed. plus the nastiness, esp. food does draw bugs, rats and more. on another note, you may need to come up with a different plan for guests so that your daughter can have the privacy she needs and deserves.

(that's just me. no nonsense and my way or the highway in my home as long i'm the one paying all the bills.)

i'm seeing the car and bedroom issues as responsibilities she has to keep up with.
the attitude change (depending on its occurance) could spell trouble. it might be that she's just growing up and learning who she is. but it could also mean that she has fallen prey to something such as depression, drugs, and fallen in with the wrong crowd.

the best thing i can come up with is for you and dw to sit down and have a serious, non threatening, to the point discussion with her about your expectations and her responsibilites and the consequences of her actions if she doesn't keep things taken care of.

the ex-bf: tell him he needs to find something else to do for a while. a 10 yr. age difference is not so bad if the kid he's friends with is being mentored for good reason. but the guy still needs to find interests other than being friends with a kid. the ex needs to basically get a life outside of the one he had with your dd.

 

[Corgi]

At this time, it's time to be tougher on her. She's already an adult. You need to talk to her about living independently because she needs to recognize that she shouldn't be treating you guys this way when you are providing so much for her right now. She just needs a taste of life on her own.

 

[Xero]

Corgi, please keep an eye on how old a thread is before you post in it. Make sure the last post date is no older than 30 days whenever you contemplate replying. Its basically just to keep the recent topics from being bumped to the bottom in favor of old, dead threads.

http://www.parentingforums.org/f17/rules-guidelines-read-before-posting-7179.html[/URL]

Thank you!!