2nd grader: Retelling problems...

[kpalania]

Hi folks,
My son who is a second grader has been having issues with story retelling since his first grade. He reads very well and very fast, and has been doing that for a while, and his spellings are excellent (for long words as well) and was confirmed to be at 4th grade level for speed/spelling even when he was just in his 1st grade. But, however, his retelling has been quite poor. If you ask him questions about the story, he would do quite okay but he is not able to retell the story without help with all the necessary details and in a sequence. Naturally, this leads to poor DRA scores.

We speak multiple languages at home and english is not our primary language. He definitely lacks fluency in english and we have a feeling that could be one problem because of which he is not able to retell the story completely and accurately. He does better in non-fiction books than fiction. For instance, books about chicken and them transforming to something else (total child fiction books) doesn't bode well with him as he doesn't believe it can happen and keeps questioning it sometimes.

We are tired of complaints from his school about DRA scores and his not being able to retell, etc.

What can we do? And what are the repercussions of failing the DRA in grade 2? Say, he does not retell at level 24 or 26 that they expect, and is only doing 10 or so, for example.

 

[musicmom]

I honestly have never heard of this.
The language issue and being bi-lingual could be something to look at. There are others on this board that would know me.
All I can suggest is start working with him. Are you using him as a interpreter at home? He may be getting really confused. Since I've never heard of this I really don't have any good advice.

 

[EHB]

I hate it when school's complain, but give you no resources to assist your child to overcome the issue. I would start with the school. Tell them that you have heard them and ask them what they suggest you do about it. They are the educators, after all, and they have access to the resources in the community that you might need.

Whatever you do, don't let the school tell you that it is your parenting at fault here. That's a way to put the educational responsibility back on you and that is certainly not why we send our kids to school. If we were willing to assume the total educational responsibility ourselves, we would all be home schooling our kids (and I have had to do this with a special needs child who's needs were not being met in traditional school where the school kept telling me there was nothing they could do till I had a diagnosis).

One other thing I have noticed and that is that a couple of my kids took at least until the last semester at school to grasp a concept that was being taught. Not all children get the concept in the first or even the second semester, but they do have an uncanny knack for catching up by the third or fourth semester. It might just be that his early scores are reflecting his beginning of the year deficits which will right themselves by the end of the year. All children have their own approach to learning. Teachers only have one approach to learning. There's usually a disconnect for a while.

As for story retelling, try to determine if your child is a visual, auditory or kinesthetic learner. This may help you tailor your prompts for his retelling. If he is visual, a review of some pictures related to the story may help. If he's auditory, reading the first sentence of the relevant paragraph to him may be helpful and if he is kinesthetic, perhaps giving him some playdough to make into items of what he remembers about the story.

Finally, he might be able to read at 4th grade level, but he may not understand at that level. It might be more helpful to shift back to higher level 2nd grade books and see how he does. I'd still give him the 4th grade level books to read at home, but ask that the school give him 2nd grade books for his assignments.

 

[kpalania]

Thanks EHB. Yes, you are right. He can read higher grade level books but cannot comprehend them. Just reads them quickly without understanding and that is essentially the problem as it looks like he is reading second grade level books in the same way as well. He can read any book but cannot retell most books, even books that are below his expected second grade level.

He seems to do a shade better in non-fiction books than fiction but the problem is still there. He writes very well (has a very pretty handwriting), and does a decent job in tests (multiple choice questions) at school.

We do believe that he would improve as time goes with his retelling skills and language fluency which are clearly lacking now but the school complaints are getting tiresome as they do a DRA test now and them and tell us he did badly.

While we are okay to wait for him to improve, I am worried that the school may or may not, or don't even know how that works. Can they detain him in second grade at the end of the year if he does not pass the DRA? That would be really disappointing and frustrating for him as he would definitely not like it. Nor would be.

 

[musicmom]

I gave this site on another post but you could use it here as well. It will allow you to hear your son read outloud and get an idea as to what words he's not getting.
www.leeschools.net
Go to "for students"
click on "study tools"
You can go under the words and the phonograms and get an idea as to what he's not understanding and then work with him. You have a while before schools out. YOu can have him understanding in no time.

 

[Shari Nielsen]

Try having him read a passage and jot down a word or two after every couple of sentences that will remind him of the main point. Then let him use these words/phrases as he re-explains the story to you. As he gets better and better at this, he might only need to write a few words for each paragraph instead of every couple of sentences.

He needs to learn to make mental notes/images of what he is reading WHILE he is reading. Doing something like writing down a few words as he reads will train his brain to be an active instead of passive reader.

Also, start w/ small passages and have him retell you what happened. Give him longer and longer passages and see how long is too long. Pinpointing this might help him realize where his limit is and give him a goal to work towards.

 

[jenilouise]

Is he artistic? Perhaps a game like drawing pictures of the major parts of the story and putting them in order will help?

 

[kpalania]

We met with his school again and are so tired and vexed with their complaints. I tried to argue that he is doing okay in his quantitative tests (math, science, etc) but they dont seem to care. Their only repeated whining has to do with the retelling of stories as if that is the only thing that defines it all. Math, science, or written tests dont seem to matter, it is just the DRA.

So lost as to what we could do. He does better in retelling at home than at school for sure (at whatever level he is able to do at home, that is).

 

[Kaytee]

I don't get it. He passes his tests but they don't think he remembers it? I'm confused lol

 

[musicmom]

If that's all they complain about then they need to be reported to the superintendant. If they are getting that many complaints then something is wrong INSIDE the school, not with the children.

 

[kpalania]

ok, let me clarify. if they give him reading material, he studies at home, prepares for the test and takes it, he gets scores like this in Math/Science/History tests: 14/20, 19/28, 11/18, etc. So, not perfect, makes silly mistakes sometimes, doesnt know some answers, but I think not too bad (especially because they dont disclose class averages, we have no way to tell how other kids perform).

He reads at 4th grade level (just reading accuracy, speed, etc, not comprehending what he reads). His spellings are way about PAL requirements.

However, his english fluency is lacking. Makes grammatical mistakes, does not have the flow like or even close to a native english speaker (we are bi-lingual and though he does not speak our native language very well, he understands every bit of it). So, when he reads a story, he probably does not understand everything and does not retell the story either in sequence, or with all the details, or with a flow. Nor does he understand the moral of the story, etc. That is the problem and they keep coming back with that AS IF that is the most important aspect of schooling and nothing else really matters at all.

That is where we are lost.

 

[musicmom]

Ok....let me give you something to ponder.
In your language (spanish right?) you speak what is backwards to us. Don't you put the verbs before the nouns or something like that?
So my thought would be he is getting confused when doing it in English to remember the order we put things.
Sample: Jack runs, jack trips, jack stands up.
Now if you were to write that in a sentence in spanish wouldn't it be runs jack, trips jack, stands up jack?
I could be totally wrong here. It was just a thought.

What state are you in?

 

[kpalania]

..we live in VA.. no, not spanish.. south asian (indian) language..

 

[aliinnc]

Why not practice with him? Our gifted daughter had major trouble with writing to a prompt in third grade. So every night we sat at the dinner table and practiced prompts.

Maybe he could read a short passage every night and you could ask him leading questions to help him remember. Things like what happened, who, where, when, and why. The practice may help him realize he can do the same thing himself.

 

[kpalania]

Why not practice with him? Our gifted daughter had major trouble with writing to a prompt in third grade. So every night we sat at the dinner table and practiced prompts.

Maybe he could read a short passage every night and you could ask him leading questions to help him remember. Things like what happened, who, where, when, and why. The practice may help him realize he can do the same thing himself.

Makes a lot of sense. He is able to give us answers if we ask him questions (comprehension questions). So, we just need to repeatedly do that till he realizes the questions would almost always be the same so he should remember to retell those answers in sequence..

What does "writing to a prompt" mean?

 

[aliinnc]

Sorry, I've been sick, so I didn't reply earlier. A prompt is a question or statement that is supposed to 'prompt' a reply for writing. That was about the worst explanation I've ever seen.

For example, <I>There is a tree in my yard with a large hole in the trunk. One day Ilooked inside and found________.</I>

Or <I>Why do you like eating in the school cafeteria?</I>

Or <I>What is your funniest day ever?</I>

Then the kids have to write about it. Hope that explains it.