9/11 Conspirasy Theory...
- Thread starter hwnorth
- Start date
jtee - so do you feel that the official explanation is one of truth?
maybe one could explain so many sick people in NY that were around or dealt with ground zero... yet officials said the air was safe ...
do any of you know any or much of the information besides what was handed out in the media ?
maybe one could explain so many sick people in NY that were around or dealt with ground zero... yet officials said the air was safe ...
do any of you know any or much of the information besides what was handed out in the media ?
This is a quote from the link Ari ...Ari2 said:
Why Did It Collapse?
Tim Wilkinson, Lecturer in Civil Engineering
<I>(This is an initial suggestion, originally written on Sept 11 2001 (with some minor subsequent changes) on one possible reason for failure, and should not be regarded as official advice.)</I>
So the day the towers collapsed, without any investigation into the matter, no analyzing of materials or any studying of material... a University in Australia publishes a report on what MAY have happened... "<I>one possible reason for failure, and should not be regarded as official advice"
Yet its felt that this is credible information, even though the disclaimer at the start states otherwise?
</I>
In all honesty, I think the talk of "should not be regarded as official advice" is boilerplate CYA info and nothing more ("boilerplate" being standardized language that uses legal term(s) of art; and "CYA" being that hallowed legal tradition of "Cover Your ...", which pretty much is Strategy #1 for reducing any legal entanglements). It is a disclaimer to avoid any liability for someone so boneheaded as to read it and extrapolate what happened when a passenger jet collided with the uniquely designed Twin Towers to their single-family home. The U of Australia is putting forth a theory, and this language emphasizes the theoretical nature of the article. I'm sure it made the General Counsel's office at the university very happy.hwnorth said:
I don't believe there was a conspired effort by the commission to create a report they knew would contain false information in effort to keep the public from knowing the truth (Ie it planned mission to attack ourselves or something else). There very well could have been comprises made as a result of politics, so I don't necessarily believe the report is the truth as if there no room for questioning the finer details.hwnorth said:
In my last post, what I was basically saying i sthat somehow, some way, the truth always wins, even it takes 100 years or more. So you if you are correct in your suspensions, I am saying sooner or later you will be poven right. Experts in various Fields will also question the same things and the report will fall apart. If the report if essentially correct, it will continue to hold up because what is in it is the essentially true/acturate.
<FONT font="sans-serif"><SIZE size="100"><FONT font="Verdana"><I>Have any of you ever heard of Operation Northwoods </I>?
Google it ... its Strikingly familiar
</SIZE>Ari - I get your point re legalities .. but this was written the day of the incident. There is no way of justification without evidence. Just as there can be no diagnosis without an exam... exact same thing.
Please explain to me how a 747 cant hit the pentagon and leave a "hole" .. but no marks where engines or wings are .. and no aircraft debris to any degree.
jtee - I dont accept the truth will surface "some day".
Lets just say for shits and giggles that this was an all out conspiracy (not what Im saying... but lets go there) ... In the meantime ... the USA has invaded and brought other countries with it ... it has destroyed homes and families both in the middle east ... as well as the soldiers that have died .. and the families destroyed. In many cases the soldiers that die are the lucky ones as they dont have to deal with aftermath.
So 10 years from now we discover this ... as it surfaces ... was it worth NOT asking the questions and destroying so many lives? .. What if this war wages on and one of your children are over there? what about how it will affect them? The 19 names of suspected hijackers released by the FBI don't point to Afghanistan. They come from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, United Arab Emirates; all across the middle east without a focus in any one region.
the commission HAS been shown to contain false information already in more than once case.
There was a class action suit launched against the EPA
""It was proved that five of the names included in the FBI list had nothing to do with what happened," Al-Faisal told the Arabic Press in Washington after meeting with U.S. President George W. Bush at the White House. A sixth identified hijacker is also reported to still be alive in Tunisia, while a 7th named man died two years ago!"
another problem lies with the described actions of the hijackers themselves. We are being told on the one hand that these men were such fanatical devotees of their faith that they willingly crashed the jets they were flying into buildings. Yet on the other hand, we are being told that these same men spent the night before their planned visit to Allah drinking in strip bars, committing not just one, but two mortal sins which would keep them out of Paradise no matter what else they did. Truly devout Muslims would spend the day before a suicide attack fasting and praying.
Google it ... its Strikingly familiar
</SIZE>Ari - I get your point re legalities .. but this was written the day of the incident. There is no way of justification without evidence. Just as there can be no diagnosis without an exam... exact same thing.
Please explain to me how a 747 cant hit the pentagon and leave a "hole" .. but no marks where engines or wings are .. and no aircraft debris to any degree.
jtee - I dont accept the truth will surface "some day".
Lets just say for shits and giggles that this was an all out conspiracy (not what Im saying... but lets go there) ... In the meantime ... the USA has invaded and brought other countries with it ... it has destroyed homes and families both in the middle east ... as well as the soldiers that have died .. and the families destroyed. In many cases the soldiers that die are the lucky ones as they dont have to deal with aftermath.
So 10 years from now we discover this ... as it surfaces ... was it worth NOT asking the questions and destroying so many lives? .. What if this war wages on and one of your children are over there? what about how it will affect them? The 19 names of suspected hijackers released by the FBI don't point to Afghanistan. They come from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, United Arab Emirates; all across the middle east without a focus in any one region.
the commission HAS been shown to contain false information already in more than once case.
There was a class action suit launched against the EPA
""It was proved that five of the names included in the FBI list had nothing to do with what happened," Al-Faisal told the Arabic Press in Washington after meeting with U.S. President George W. Bush at the White House. A sixth identified hijacker is also reported to still be alive in Tunisia, while a 7th named man died two years ago!"
another problem lies with the described actions of the hijackers themselves. We are being told on the one hand that these men were such fanatical devotees of their faith that they willingly crashed the jets they were flying into buildings. Yet on the other hand, we are being told that these same men spent the night before their planned visit to Allah drinking in strip bars, committing not just one, but two mortal sins which would keep them out of Paradise no matter what else they did. Truly devout Muslims would spend the day before a suicide attack fasting and praying.
If you were Bush and about to lose all your oil and your familys name go down the crapper what would you do? Hmmm maybe find a way to use your power to turn America against your now enemy? Pay a few martyrs, cut a deal with the guy who designed the twin towers who was wanting rid of them anyway so he would more then triple his money.
Bush is the hero, America is at war, Bin Laden is wanted and we get reminded of 9/11 every year.
If Bush flew Bin Laden family out, don't you think he got Bin Laden out too?
Bush is caught lying saying he SAW the first plan hit, the first plan was not on camera for him to see it at that time. Later he announced he he was in a classroom with children when it hit. Nice allibi.
I think it was planned with innocent people. Phone calls were not released and voices sound pre-planned when leaving messages and were very calm on the plan. Oh by the way. Phone calls could NOT be made from that altitude. It was after 9/11 that airliners installed high tech devices so that cell phones could work. A month after.
Funny how the white house never got hit and that plan shot down but made a hero out of a guy. The pilot only says "the plane is down" not "crashed"
I believe it was all inside.
Bush is the hero, America is at war, Bin Laden is wanted and we get reminded of 9/11 every year.
If Bush flew Bin Laden family out, don't you think he got Bin Laden out too?
Bush is caught lying saying he SAW the first plan hit, the first plan was not on camera for him to see it at that time. Later he announced he he was in a classroom with children when it hit. Nice allibi.
I think it was planned with innocent people. Phone calls were not released and voices sound pre-planned when leaving messages and were very calm on the plan. Oh by the way. Phone calls could NOT be made from that altitude. It was after 9/11 that airliners installed high tech devices so that cell phones could work. A month after.
Funny how the white house never got hit and that plan shot down but made a hero out of a guy. The pilot only says "the plane is down" not "crashed"
I believe it was all inside.
<I>Have any of you ever heard of Operation Northwoods </I>?[/SIZE]</SIZE>
<SIZE size="100">Google it ... its Strikingly familiar </SIZE>
[/FONT]Ari - I get your point re legalities .. but this was written the day of the incident. There is no way of justification without evidence. Just as there can be no diagnosis without an exam... exact same thing.
Please explain to me how a 747 cant hit the pentagon and leave a "hole" .. but no marks where engines or wings are .. and no aircraft debris to any degree.
jtee - I dont accept the truth will surface "some day".
Lets just say for shits and giggles that this was an all out conspiracy (not what Im saying... but lets go there) ... In the meantime ... the USA has invaded and brought other countries with it ... it has destroyed homes and families both in the middle east ... as well as the soldiers that have died .. and the families destroyed. In many cases the soldiers that die are the lucky ones as they dont have to deal with aftermath.
So 10 years from now we discover this ... as it surfaces ... was it worth NOT asking the questions and destroying so many lives? .. What if this war wages on and one of your children are over there? what about how it will affect them? The 19 names of suspected hijackers released by the FBI don't point to Afghanistan. They come from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, United Arab Emirates; all across the middle east without a focus in any one region.
the commission HAS been shown to contain false information already in more than once case.
There was a class action suit launched against the EPA
""It was proved that five of the names included in the FBI list had nothing to do with what happened," Al-Faisal told the Arabic Press in Washington after meeting with U.S. President George W. Bush at the White House. A sixth identified hijacker is also reported to still be alive in Tunisia, while a 7th named man died two years ago!"
another problem lies with the described actions of the hijackers themselves. We are being told on the one hand that these men were such fanatical devotees of their faith that they willingly crashed the jets they were flying into buildings. Yet on the other hand, we are being told that these same men spent the night before their planned visit to Allah drinking in strip bars, committing not just one, but two mortal sins which would keep them out of Paradise no matter what else they did. Truly devout Muslims would spend the day before a suicide attack fasting and praying.[/quote]Actually air craft debris was found.
<YOUTUBE id="YVDdjLQkUV8" url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8&feature=related">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8&feature=related</YOUTUBE>
Proof of debris at sitehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K89coc88Hrs&feature=related
<SIZE size="100">Google it ... its Strikingly familiar </SIZE>
[/FONT]Ari - I get your point re legalities .. but this was written the day of the incident. There is no way of justification without evidence. Just as there can be no diagnosis without an exam... exact same thing.
Please explain to me how a 747 cant hit the pentagon and leave a "hole" .. but no marks where engines or wings are .. and no aircraft debris to any degree.
jtee - I dont accept the truth will surface "some day".
Lets just say for shits and giggles that this was an all out conspiracy (not what Im saying... but lets go there) ... In the meantime ... the USA has invaded and brought other countries with it ... it has destroyed homes and families both in the middle east ... as well as the soldiers that have died .. and the families destroyed. In many cases the soldiers that die are the lucky ones as they dont have to deal with aftermath.
So 10 years from now we discover this ... as it surfaces ... was it worth NOT asking the questions and destroying so many lives? .. What if this war wages on and one of your children are over there? what about how it will affect them? The 19 names of suspected hijackers released by the FBI don't point to Afghanistan. They come from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, United Arab Emirates; all across the middle east without a focus in any one region.
the commission HAS been shown to contain false information already in more than once case.
There was a class action suit launched against the EPA
""It was proved that five of the names included in the FBI list had nothing to do with what happened," Al-Faisal told the Arabic Press in Washington after meeting with U.S. President George W. Bush at the White House. A sixth identified hijacker is also reported to still be alive in Tunisia, while a 7th named man died two years ago!"
another problem lies with the described actions of the hijackers themselves. We are being told on the one hand that these men were such fanatical devotees of their faith that they willingly crashed the jets they were flying into buildings. Yet on the other hand, we are being told that these same men spent the night before their planned visit to Allah drinking in strip bars, committing not just one, but two mortal sins which would keep them out of Paradise no matter what else they did. Truly devout Muslims would spend the day before a suicide attack fasting and praying.[/quote]Actually air craft debris was found.
<YOUTUBE id="YVDdjLQkUV8" url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8&feature=related">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8&feature=related</YOUTUBE>
Proof of debris at sitehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K89coc88Hrs&feature=related
interesting ... contrary to anything Ive seen on either sides of the story ... but interesting non the less
Have you found any information on why the FBI confiscated videos from the gas station and only one video has been released from the Pentagon ...??
Have you found any information on why the FBI confiscated videos from the gas station and only one video has been released from the Pentagon ...??
Don't get me wrong, it is worth asking questions to get to the truth as quickly as possible for the reasons you have stated.hwnorth said:
Part of the reason why I some find it funny that 911 could be a massive conspiracy is because reaction that has happen since 911 has been a disaster. How could the same brilliant minds pull off a great conspiracy, yet bumble everything starting the day after. To me how things were handle afterwords, give us insight into how 911 could have happened in the first place.
I personally am under no illusions that mere terrorists were behind the 9/11 attacks. it wasn't passenger planes. it wasn't the force of the the plane blowing up which weakened the structure.
come on, people, it's not THAT hard to believe that a highly efficient military unit exists in the world that can pull this shit off - there's not THAT many people that need to keep the secret. How many people knew they were going to drop H-bombs on Japan? Under a dozen.
it's also not THAT hard to believe that bad things can happen right under the nose of a compliant population - the Holocaust happened in perfectly quaint and picturesque villages.
The question is - WHY did they do it? WHY did they crash plaens and blame terrorists? WHY did they to such extreme lengths to create a climate of fear? WHY did they invade Iraq.
I will tell you my greatest fear. I'm an atheist, so I don't fear the Devil, the bogeyman, or the tooth fairy. But I believe that the US government, specifically the Bush family and their Saudi partners KNOW (knew) that we're out of oil, and that the end-game has begun. For the US to maintain its position in the world as the global society crashes and 4 billion people starve to death in the first year... when entire countries vanish... when wars are fought over food... when people begin to eat their seed-grain... then they need to A) be able to control the population and B) be in a position to sieze control of the last of the oil.
That's where the Patriot Act comes from. That's where Habeus Corpus went. That's why torture is ok again. That's why the US government now invades countries for their oil. That's why they're not encouraging - IMPLORING - the US people to abandon their oil-driven lifestyle.
The 9/11 attacks were the scariest thing to ever happen not for the reason that the bubble-myth of US Homeland Security was broken from the outside - but that it was broken from the INSIDE. And that makes America fundamentally broken. It is now no longer the land of the free, and it never will be again. And THAT, by itself, is not the biggest scary thing. The biggest scary thing is that there exists people who would WANT to do such a thing - and that they would have REASONS to do so.
You put the oil thing next to the fact that every word Al Gore said is completely true - and you have to face the fact that our children will be lucky to grow old, and that's the truth.
I _wish_ it had just been crazy turban-wearing Terrorists. It wasn't.
come on, people, it's not THAT hard to believe that a highly efficient military unit exists in the world that can pull this shit off - there's not THAT many people that need to keep the secret. How many people knew they were going to drop H-bombs on Japan? Under a dozen.
it's also not THAT hard to believe that bad things can happen right under the nose of a compliant population - the Holocaust happened in perfectly quaint and picturesque villages.
The question is - WHY did they do it? WHY did they crash plaens and blame terrorists? WHY did they to such extreme lengths to create a climate of fear? WHY did they invade Iraq.
I will tell you my greatest fear. I'm an atheist, so I don't fear the Devil, the bogeyman, or the tooth fairy. But I believe that the US government, specifically the Bush family and their Saudi partners KNOW (knew) that we're out of oil, and that the end-game has begun. For the US to maintain its position in the world as the global society crashes and 4 billion people starve to death in the first year... when entire countries vanish... when wars are fought over food... when people begin to eat their seed-grain... then they need to A) be able to control the population and B) be in a position to sieze control of the last of the oil.
That's where the Patriot Act comes from. That's where Habeus Corpus went. That's why torture is ok again. That's why the US government now invades countries for their oil. That's why they're not encouraging - IMPLORING - the US people to abandon their oil-driven lifestyle.
The 9/11 attacks were the scariest thing to ever happen not for the reason that the bubble-myth of US Homeland Security was broken from the outside - but that it was broken from the INSIDE. And that makes America fundamentally broken. It is now no longer the land of the free, and it never will be again. And THAT, by itself, is not the biggest scary thing. The biggest scary thing is that there exists people who would WANT to do such a thing - and that they would have REASONS to do so.
You put the oil thing next to the fact that every word Al Gore said is completely true - and you have to face the fact that our children will be lucky to grow old, and that's the truth.
I _wish_ it had just been crazy turban-wearing Terrorists. It wasn't.
Condeliza rice (sp) said we would have evidence from Bin Laden himself that he did in fact have something to do with 9/11. It's never happend.
They even have us believing that they are monitoring Bin Ladens video tapes for hidden messages. That's bull. Bin Laden is probably telling us "I had nothing to do with it, it's your president and you will pay" but we only see the "you will pay part"
The White House is going to slip up somehow. Why else would Bush give all those people money for their family and friends deaths???? Because he feels guilty. They won't investigate further.
They even have us believing that they are monitoring Bin Ladens video tapes for hidden messages. That's bull. Bin Laden is probably telling us "I had nothing to do with it, it's your president and you will pay" but we only see the "you will pay part"
The White House is going to slip up somehow. Why else would Bush give all those people money for their family and friends deaths???? Because he feels guilty. They won't investigate further.
evil brent ... get in line ... were next ... Canada has some of the largest oil reserves in the World. USA already wants and takes our water and power ....
<I><U>
Operation Northwoods</U> - a set of proposals on Cuba by the Joint Chiefs of Staff codenamed OPERATION NORTHWOODS. This document, titled “Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba” was provided by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13, 1962, as the key component of Northwoods. Written in response to a request from the Chief of the Cuba Project, Col. Edward Lansdale, the Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba. These proposals - part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose - included faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner, and concocting a “Remember the Maine” incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage.
</I>I think Evil brent hit it pretty bang on in his post...
So, the US government proposed a plan almost identical to 9/11, in 1962 ... yet that was just a coincidence ? a laughable coincidence ?
Im interested in knowing.. for those who say "oh no it was just terrorists" ... where you get your information and education on those facts that you believe.
<I><U>
Operation Northwoods</U> - a set of proposals on Cuba by the Joint Chiefs of Staff codenamed OPERATION NORTHWOODS. This document, titled “Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba” was provided by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13, 1962, as the key component of Northwoods. Written in response to a request from the Chief of the Cuba Project, Col. Edward Lansdale, the Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba. These proposals - part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose - included faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner, and concocting a “Remember the Maine” incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage.
</I>I think Evil brent hit it pretty bang on in his post...
So, the US government proposed a plan almost identical to 9/11, in 1962 ... yet that was just a coincidence ? a laughable coincidence ?
Im interested in knowing.. for those who say "oh no it was just terrorists" ... where you get your information and education on those facts that you believe.
Brent, that stuff keeps me awake at night and makes me fear for my children.
It adds up way too well, and I will sit for days and wonder, "If there is no food, and no gas (meaning no electricity eventually), how will I take care of my family?" Then I scramble to make it happen.
It adds up way too well, and I will sit for days and wonder, "If there is no food, and no gas (meaning no electricity eventually), how will I take care of my family?" Then I scramble to make it happen.
Now let me see if I understand you Brent. You believe about 4 elite efficiently trained US military units were given orders to go on a suicide mission either knowing why, or followed orders without question, to kill 1000s innocent americans citizens on US soil so oil men could control the world's oid reserves? Now that is a true conspiracy!!!!
For people who have similar beliefs, what do you think of the established checks and balances on any branch of the federal government? This includes 2-term limit on the presidency (McCain, Clinton, and Obama have all spoke out against torture; Clinton and Obama say they will withdraw from Iraq ASAP), the legal system, and Congress?evilbrent said:
There are several examples of federal courts ruling against the Bush administration in these matters. One of the most recent was in February of this year when the US Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit declined to reconsider an order requiring the government to produce nearly all the info it has on many of the Guantanamo detainees. This will allow for cases from 180 of the detaines challenging their detention to proceed. One pillars of the detainees' cases, of course, is the right to habeas corpus.
Another big legal move occurred last December when the US Supreme Court accepted two cases that will determine whether federal judges can prevent military officials from handing over US citizens to the Iraqis for criminal prosecution or punishment. The Bush administration did not want the Supreme Court to accept these cases as it maintains the US federal courts have no jurisdiction over the matter. This directly deals with habeas corpus as well.
Last summer, the US Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit clipped a big part of Bush's assertion of executive power with regard to terrorism. It held that the government can't declare civilians in this country "enemy combatants" and allow the military to hold them indefinitely.
There's many other examples, but this is already too long and legally geeked-out for nearly anyone to read (to those you have, have a large, caffeinated beverage on me, with my apologies).
If you believe it, do you think that this conspiracy or plan will continue past the Bush administration and do you think the US governmental system lacks the required checks and balances to push back?