Just another post looking for advise. While I've read many discussions here, I've not really participated in them so in a way I feel bad asking for help especially on some issues I feel are very complex but I just really need some others perspective to help me hopefully make the best choice for my family.
I really hate to put this out right off or even have to bring it up at all but it's going to help anyone reading understand better... I'm gay, my husband and I each have a biological son. Both are 9 and live with their biological mothers but visit several times a year. We also have five adopted adopted children. Four boys and a girl, youngest is not quite 2, oldest is 11. All five have lived with us since early 2011, a couple since late 2010. All were adopted from the US foster system and all have varying degrees of emotional and developmental issues. Three have extreme PTSD and attachment issues. All but one suffers with the results of their mothers drinking/using drugs while pregnant though a couple seem more severely effected. One child had a heart transplant last fall and we are dealing with complications of that at this time. Another was so severely abused he is near deaf and blind and can't breathe through his nose or eat on his own.
I'm not complaining about my children. We brought all of them into our home with a true understanding of their issues, needs and likely healing outcomes. We hold on to hope, we do everything within our power to ensure they have the best opportunities to heal and grow. I don't for a second regret bringing them into our life though I often wonder if things are ever going to be "ok" for them and if everything we do is enough though I don't know what more we could do..But I'm not really looking for advise about them, I'm just trying to give a little background before going into what I'm really looking for advice on.
In January of this year, my younger brother Matt chose to end his life, leaving behind my niece 11, and my two nephews 8 and 6.
Matt and I were raised in the Mormon church. After years of personal conflict and what I now consider abuse, I left the church in my early 20's. My family and the church leaders said I wasn't believing or praying enough if I still had homosexual desires. I went to therapy and camps to "cure" myself many times. It came down to accepting myself as I was. My family nor church could never do that, so I made a difficult choice to leave both behind. I went through rough times over it but I got myself together, went to therapy to recover from the scars of that, found the ability to find worth and love for myself. I made a life, with my husband who had a very similar strict religious upbringing in the Baptist church.
We've worked hard to overcome the past pain of our religious upbringings which taught us to hate and be disgusted by our very selves. Both our families have never been able to accept much less tolerate us or treat us in a very civil way. When we adopted the kids, we cut my entire family (minus Matt) out of our lives. They felt our adopted children would be better off with murderers, we couldn't keep that type of negativity in lives at such a difficult time and it was honestly something long overdue.
Fast forward to when my brother Matt ended his life this Jan. Matt's first wife had passed away a few years back, he was about to marry for a second time. He ended his life because he was in fact also attracted to men, didn't want to continue to live a lie, had seen the actions/feelings expressed by family towards me over the years and felt he couldn't live his faith, have the love of his family and be gay. I had no idea he was gay or feeling this way... I'm still working through my feelings over why he didn't come to me but that's another thing, I'm trying to get to the point here.
My brother was very clear in his intentions for his children. He did not want them to be raised by anyone in the family other than myself. He did not want them to grow up hating who he was, which our family would have no doubt taught them to do and are still in fact trying to do.
After much consideration, with the support of my husband, I became the guardian of my niece and two nephews in Feb. We are remodeling our home to accommodate eight, sometimes ten children. We are trying to understand "terms" to relate to each other within the family: are the kids cousins, siblings, our children? It's very trying especially with all we deal with with our other children but we are holding on somehow managing to get all eight of the kids to school/counseling/therapy/medical services and stick to a routine that benefits all the kids. We've worked out moving my niece and nephews across the country and at first allowed them contact with my family (their grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins).
I was trying to do what was best for my niece and nephews by setting aside the ill feelings and differences with my family to allow them contact as their grieving and transitioning to a new home/state/school. But my family has never wanted anything to do with our adopted kids so it's been a messy situation. In the end, after a spring break visit, where my family proved they couldn't put the children's best interest first and act in an adult way, we decided we had to cut that contact for everyone minus letters/emails that are seen by us first.
Now finally to where I really need some advise. My niece and nephew were being raised very strictly in the Mormon church. At 11, my niece has already been baptized a member of the church since she was 8. My 8 year old nephew was due for his baptism about a week after his father's death but it obviously did not happen and only has recently come up again.
My husband and I have been taking our adopted/bio children to a welcoming church. Our bio kids mother's have made this an issue in the past and we've gone to court with each mother over such issues. We've held many discussions about forcing beliefs and religion upon them as we don't want them to be harmed in ways we were. In a way I feel it's silly we don't have the wisdom to readily and comfortably deal with what we are facing.
When my niece and nephews came to live with us, it was so soon after their father's death and everything to them was "new" so we opted to keep them close to something which may bring them comfort: their church. I found the closest one, explained their situation and my husband or myself has attended with them nearly every week. With everything going on with all the kids we just never discussed whether situation would be temporary or permanent or what. We just quietly attended with them, as we felt the church and it's members were bringing the kids some comfort and normalcy which they needed very much.
In the church, children are baptized at 8 years old, my eight year old nephew is now eagerly asking when he can be baptized. My husband and I aren't sure we want to allow this, but we also want to do what is best for the child, not us...
On one hand, it is something my nephew wants and the church has been a major part of his life, and to take that away from him/his siblings seems quite selfish. Especially when he/they have already experienced such loss and are dealing with so much change/stress on top of their grief.
On the other hand, I don't know if the church will ever fully welcome my niece or nephews... The members are already visibly uncomfortable with us being in their presence, some have gone so far as to tell us we don't belong there and the kids need to be given to a mother and father. If they do my nephews baptism (and I'm not sure they even will) were we to choose that, we don't know if letting them attend the church will put them in the presence of people putting ideas of hatred and hell about their father into their minds (or the impact it will have on them being comfortable being raised by us). Okay, actually <I>we know</I> it will place them around that and for this we are cautious and unsure about it. We don't want to expose them to those kind of beliefs and thoughts about their father/us but we want to do the best thing for them and the church is what they know, what they think they want. I know at 11, 8 and 6 they can't really know what they want in a church, especially when this is all they've been exposed to but they're already dealing with so much, I just want to do the right thing for them but I don't know what to do, at all!
A big part of me wants to keep them away from it at all costs. I fear if we allow them to attend and be members of this church, we'll have to deal with the church, it's members, and everything which I've let be a negative factor in my life for far too long. I know that's mostly the selfish part of me and I'm trying to put them first here and make the choice that in the end will be best for them.... At the same time, I kind of feel I have to consider my personal well being too, as selfish as it is, because if I am brought down by any of this involvement with the church, I'm afraid all of the kids will suffer if I'm not in the best place mentally/emotionally to be strong and care for them. And then there is the whole issue I've also had to think about what if one of these three kids are homosexual, and I'm putting them in the place of the same kind of pain and abuse I endured by letting them be members of this church?
I really hate to put this out right off or even have to bring it up at all but it's going to help anyone reading understand better... I'm gay, my husband and I each have a biological son. Both are 9 and live with their biological mothers but visit several times a year. We also have five adopted adopted children. Four boys and a girl, youngest is not quite 2, oldest is 11. All five have lived with us since early 2011, a couple since late 2010. All were adopted from the US foster system and all have varying degrees of emotional and developmental issues. Three have extreme PTSD and attachment issues. All but one suffers with the results of their mothers drinking/using drugs while pregnant though a couple seem more severely effected. One child had a heart transplant last fall and we are dealing with complications of that at this time. Another was so severely abused he is near deaf and blind and can't breathe through his nose or eat on his own.
I'm not complaining about my children. We brought all of them into our home with a true understanding of their issues, needs and likely healing outcomes. We hold on to hope, we do everything within our power to ensure they have the best opportunities to heal and grow. I don't for a second regret bringing them into our life though I often wonder if things are ever going to be "ok" for them and if everything we do is enough though I don't know what more we could do..But I'm not really looking for advise about them, I'm just trying to give a little background before going into what I'm really looking for advice on.
In January of this year, my younger brother Matt chose to end his life, leaving behind my niece 11, and my two nephews 8 and 6.
Matt and I were raised in the Mormon church. After years of personal conflict and what I now consider abuse, I left the church in my early 20's. My family and the church leaders said I wasn't believing or praying enough if I still had homosexual desires. I went to therapy and camps to "cure" myself many times. It came down to accepting myself as I was. My family nor church could never do that, so I made a difficult choice to leave both behind. I went through rough times over it but I got myself together, went to therapy to recover from the scars of that, found the ability to find worth and love for myself. I made a life, with my husband who had a very similar strict religious upbringing in the Baptist church.
We've worked hard to overcome the past pain of our religious upbringings which taught us to hate and be disgusted by our very selves. Both our families have never been able to accept much less tolerate us or treat us in a very civil way. When we adopted the kids, we cut my entire family (minus Matt) out of our lives. They felt our adopted children would be better off with murderers, we couldn't keep that type of negativity in lives at such a difficult time and it was honestly something long overdue.
Fast forward to when my brother Matt ended his life this Jan. Matt's first wife had passed away a few years back, he was about to marry for a second time. He ended his life because he was in fact also attracted to men, didn't want to continue to live a lie, had seen the actions/feelings expressed by family towards me over the years and felt he couldn't live his faith, have the love of his family and be gay. I had no idea he was gay or feeling this way... I'm still working through my feelings over why he didn't come to me but that's another thing, I'm trying to get to the point here.
My brother was very clear in his intentions for his children. He did not want them to be raised by anyone in the family other than myself. He did not want them to grow up hating who he was, which our family would have no doubt taught them to do and are still in fact trying to do.
After much consideration, with the support of my husband, I became the guardian of my niece and two nephews in Feb. We are remodeling our home to accommodate eight, sometimes ten children. We are trying to understand "terms" to relate to each other within the family: are the kids cousins, siblings, our children? It's very trying especially with all we deal with with our other children but we are holding on somehow managing to get all eight of the kids to school/counseling/therapy/medical services and stick to a routine that benefits all the kids. We've worked out moving my niece and nephews across the country and at first allowed them contact with my family (their grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins).
I was trying to do what was best for my niece and nephews by setting aside the ill feelings and differences with my family to allow them contact as their grieving and transitioning to a new home/state/school. But my family has never wanted anything to do with our adopted kids so it's been a messy situation. In the end, after a spring break visit, where my family proved they couldn't put the children's best interest first and act in an adult way, we decided we had to cut that contact for everyone minus letters/emails that are seen by us first.
Now finally to where I really need some advise. My niece and nephew were being raised very strictly in the Mormon church. At 11, my niece has already been baptized a member of the church since she was 8. My 8 year old nephew was due for his baptism about a week after his father's death but it obviously did not happen and only has recently come up again.
My husband and I have been taking our adopted/bio children to a welcoming church. Our bio kids mother's have made this an issue in the past and we've gone to court with each mother over such issues. We've held many discussions about forcing beliefs and religion upon them as we don't want them to be harmed in ways we were. In a way I feel it's silly we don't have the wisdom to readily and comfortably deal with what we are facing.
When my niece and nephews came to live with us, it was so soon after their father's death and everything to them was "new" so we opted to keep them close to something which may bring them comfort: their church. I found the closest one, explained their situation and my husband or myself has attended with them nearly every week. With everything going on with all the kids we just never discussed whether situation would be temporary or permanent or what. We just quietly attended with them, as we felt the church and it's members were bringing the kids some comfort and normalcy which they needed very much.
In the church, children are baptized at 8 years old, my eight year old nephew is now eagerly asking when he can be baptized. My husband and I aren't sure we want to allow this, but we also want to do what is best for the child, not us...
On one hand, it is something my nephew wants and the church has been a major part of his life, and to take that away from him/his siblings seems quite selfish. Especially when he/they have already experienced such loss and are dealing with so much change/stress on top of their grief.
On the other hand, I don't know if the church will ever fully welcome my niece or nephews... The members are already visibly uncomfortable with us being in their presence, some have gone so far as to tell us we don't belong there and the kids need to be given to a mother and father. If they do my nephews baptism (and I'm not sure they even will) were we to choose that, we don't know if letting them attend the church will put them in the presence of people putting ideas of hatred and hell about their father into their minds (or the impact it will have on them being comfortable being raised by us). Okay, actually <I>we know</I> it will place them around that and for this we are cautious and unsure about it. We don't want to expose them to those kind of beliefs and thoughts about their father/us but we want to do the best thing for them and the church is what they know, what they think they want. I know at 11, 8 and 6 they can't really know what they want in a church, especially when this is all they've been exposed to but they're already dealing with so much, I just want to do the right thing for them but I don't know what to do, at all!
A big part of me wants to keep them away from it at all costs. I fear if we allow them to attend and be members of this church, we'll have to deal with the church, it's members, and everything which I've let be a negative factor in my life for far too long. I know that's mostly the selfish part of me and I'm trying to put them first here and make the choice that in the end will be best for them.... At the same time, I kind of feel I have to consider my personal well being too, as selfish as it is, because if I am brought down by any of this involvement with the church, I'm afraid all of the kids will suffer if I'm not in the best place mentally/emotionally to be strong and care for them. And then there is the whole issue I've also had to think about what if one of these three kids are homosexual, and I'm putting them in the place of the same kind of pain and abuse I endured by letting them be members of this church?
) and in the circumstances they could never because they felt homosexuality destroyed the children's father and they had to know the truth immediately. They don't realize (or will never admit) their acts of "love" lead to his self destruction. Have to say my version of love is nothing like theirs, and I'm proud of that!
