Aggression/Fighting/Spite/Back talking...

[Sheila]

Hi moms/dads!

I am a mom to a 4 year old boy and have a situation happening. I would like to get an opinion of other parents out there and advice.

I have a sister who also has a 4 year old daughter. We have been very close our whole lives, great relationship, we live less than a mile away from each other and have been raising our kids together since day one. Our kids are very close, but with VERY different personalities and being raised with two VERY different parenting styles. Which is where a problem arises. This is why I would like other people's opinion, to make sure I am not being biased.

My son has a very big heart, but shows his feelings only when he feels it is necessary. You can't buy him with chocolates and toys. Loves his aunt and cousin more than anything in the world. But I discipline him very strictly (time outs, take toys away, etc) whenever he is acting out or fighting. My sister on the other hand has never done that. Her daughter, since they began walking on their own, has been pushing him, taking his toys from him and running away, teasing him, etc. My sister never prevents it. Once my son has had enough and hits her, she screams bloody Mary, and of course my son gets punished. She does not. I've tried to tell her that they need to be treated equally, but she always gives into her daughter. This child, my niece, is exceptionally smart. She does everything in spite of what she is told and knows how to play people as if she was 20 yrs old. If i bring her over, I can overhear her threatening my son that she will go home if he doesn't give her what she wants, which is when he begins to cry like crazy. He falls for it every time. If I tell her she will be taken home for misbehaving, she runs to the door, puts her shoes on and tell my son it is his fault and she wants to go home. Again, he is left crying. At other times, she can be very sweet, caring, brings him sweets, etc. I just don't believe she's sincere.

Tonight my son begged me to bring her to our house for a sleepover. They got into a fight over a toy and she bit him really hard. I put her in time out, she began biting the door. When he saw that, he hit her. He got put in timeout as well. As hes crying, she's looking at him and telling him she wants to go home knowing very well that he wants her here, causing him to cry even harder. After a few minutes, they've calmed down and I asked her to apologize first. She wouldn't. So he apologizes instead. She still wont'. She attempts to go into the playroom and gets put back into timeout until she apologizes, when she realizes this will release her from timeout, she apologizes. My naive child runs to her, hugs her and cries in her arms "I want you, don't go home". She taps him on the back like a pro and carries on.

Tonight, my heart was broken. I am concerned of how naive my son is, and I am concerned how emotionless and conniving she is. My other family members have told me to let him hit her back when she hits him, but if I do that I am teaching him that hitting is OK and I don't want him to think that. Even our parents are concerned with her behavior towards him and are sad because of him always being the disciplined one even when it's not his fault. How do I tell this to my sister? I've been upset before, but she takes it to another level causing issues in the family, not wanting to admit her daughter's mistakes. I know she sees it, but can't bring herself to do anything about it. She's a great mom, extremely devoted, but gives into her children too much.

Is her daughter's behavior normal for a 4 year old? How do I teach my son to not be affected by her behavior so heavily? Please help.

 

[cybele]

Her behaviour sounds pretty normal to me, she has figured out how to get her own way, and it works, so she's going to use it.
Your son's behaviour is also normal, he wants his way but hasn't found out how to get it, so he gets upset.

Both normal. Just different.

Your son is 4, so he will be off to school within a year or so, right? Well he is going to encounter lots of different kids who have all been raised differently, and that doesn't change how he is expected to behave.

I wouldn't put too much thought into how your sister raises her daughter, that's her choice, it could be her success or her downfall, time will tell, but there is nothing you can do there, so it's not worth the effort.

In your situation I would probably focus on getting my child to understand that every child has their own parent who is in charge, and sometimes some mummys and daddys do things differently, however, this is how we do things and this is what I expect of you.

As for the unfair discipline, don't discipline him when its not his fault, I'm confused as to why you do? If it is something he would normally receive a time out or whatever for, then it is something you would do regardless of whether his cousin is disciplined or not, and if he questions it, you can explain that Aunty so-and-so chooses to do something different, but these are the rules in our family and these are the consequences in our family.

Oh, and if it were me, there would be no more sleepovers until she gets over the running to the door pretending to leave for a reaction thing, because I wouldn't tolerate that in my house and I'm getting the idea that it's not something you would tolerate either. You can certainly let her know that because she acts that way is why there is no more, either up front, or you can put on a "Well you always say you want to go home so maybe you're not ready for sleepovers just yet, and that's okay, but until you are ready and aren't always wanting to go home, we might have a break from them" act. Either way, she hears the point that it's her actions in your home that have stopped her from doing something fun.

 

[artmom]

Considering it is no just you, I would have a family meeting about this with your sister. Just make sure to leave the kids out of the ring.

Empathy needs to be taught to your niece. She is, for some reason, manipulating your son. I think you should dig a bit deeper. Maybe there is something underlying your sister hasn't noticed yet, that could be contributing to her daughters behaviour.

Once this has been established it's important to be supportive and work with your sister as a family.

 

[Orlando Marquez]

Your son seems to have developed his primary skills of moral judgment and moral behavior sooner than your niece. Yes, there is absolutely a difference. Especially in men.

Females from a very young age are raised to be much more comfortable with thier emotions than men. Females are more keen in thier ability to use emotions to get what they want and to produce progress by doing so. We see this all the time, young girls make thier fathers melt with just a smile or playful giggle even after prolonged periods of stressing him out. A woman's power to seduce begins before she can even say a word. Your niece seems to be able to manipulate your son, as well as her own mother. Keep in mind though, you can only provide direction to your son and no one else, but your house rules apply to all.

Your niece appears to have a lack of discipline at this point. No worries at such a young age. Although a lack of discipline carries consequences for both sexes, the severity of consequences is greater for men who lack discipline than for women. Have plenty discussions with your son about rules in your house and let him know they are non-negotiable. Explain to your niece that specific rules apply under your roof as well. We all are subject to different rules, policies and procedures, and laws once we step outside of our homes and into the public domain and homes of others. It is a skill we need to develop early. Children need to be taught to act according to where they are. They will be faced with different rules out at school, at restaurants, at parks, department stores, movie theaters, the list is endless. The earlier they are brought to adjust to the terms under your roof, the faster you may see similiar behavior from both.

I do not physically discipline my nieces and nephews in my home but they do understand my household rules. If deviated, they do face punishment in the form of lessened desserts, time outs, play restrictions, television restrictions, and such. Here, I situate myself in a position where I can teach discipline without other parents intervening since it is the way my household operates. No adult goes into the home of others and establishes thier own rules.

Keep constant communication with you son as a parent and do not let any child deviate from your house rules.

Sent from my Winchester 1300 Defender

 

[akmom]

<FONT font="Verdana">Cybele makes a really good point about school. He is going to encounter kids of all personalities, kids who manipulate, kids who aggravate, kids who are bossy, kids who are pushovers, kids who still hit. And he will have to navigate these situations without you. It's easy to get hung up on how one person is treating your child, but ultimately the only productive thing you can do is teach your child how to handle it. Because there are few environments where all children get along harmoniously.

There is an older cartoon series called The Land Before Time, and it is so good at demonstrating how to be graceful when others are misbehaving or being unfair. The dinosaur characters are children, with the kind of conflicts children have, and rather than getting "justice" every time someone is wronged, they handle it with grace and maturity and move on. Such great examples. I used that series a lot when my daughter was navigating early friendships. We talked about what made Little Foot's approach so effective, specifically. You might try to locate the series.

As far as your son's and niece's relationship goes, it sounds more like sibling dynamics. And everyone handles that differently, but personally, I do not allow sibling rivalry in my house. It was a major source of frustration when I was growing up, and I didn’t want it for my kids, so I mediate every single conflict. The minute someone yells or cries, we stop everything, both kids get a chance to explain what happened (in front of each other, without interruption), explain what they want, and then summarize what the other person said they wanted. Then I ask them to come up with a solution. If they can’t, then I throw out suggestions for them to consider. Rarely, I decide the issue isn’t going away so I separate them and redirect them to other activities. I also don’t allow a give-in dynamic, where one child acquiesces to the other all the time, because I don’t want one getting manipulative and one developing a doormat personality. If their “solution” is invariably one-sided, we revisit whether both kids’ needs were met. Sometimes my daughter will recount conflicts at school that were resolved rather one-sidedly, and I do ask her if she thinks she was sensitive to the other person’s needs, and sometimes she admits she probably wasn’t (but was so thrilled at the moment she failed to perceive it).

Crying is a pet peeve of mine, so my kids don’t get to cry unless they’re mortally wounded (or think they are). If they’re crying, I send them to a separate room to collect themselves before we deal with anything. Call me biased, but when we were little, my sister used to cry loudly to get her way, because my mom always assumed the one crying was the one who was wronged. So she cried on cue to get her way. Now I associate crying with being manipulative. I’m sure some crying is genuine, but still, in my mind it serves no purpose so we keep it a private thing. The kind of manipulation your niece demonstrates need not be indulged either. She wants to go home? Fine, send her home. Don’t teach your son that he has to give in all the time. Call her on her bluff. Tell your sister that the kids seem tired and cranky today, so you’ll try again some other time. And follow through. If she’s counting on you to keep the kids for a certain amount of time, then redirect them to separate activities. Chances are, your niece is just as invested as your son in playing, but she has learned to pretend she is not. When this is exposed, they will learn that it is both their responsibilities to resolve conflict, not just your son’s.

As for hitting and biting, I don’t think that is age-appropriate any more. I would take a more hardline approach to that. (Such as, separating them for the rest of the day after any physical infraction.) I don’t remember my kids doing the hitting thing past the age of 3, but when my daughter started kindergarten, there were two students who still did. As far as I know, there are no hitters in my son’s kindergarten class this year. But that is still a year away from your son and niece, so maybe it’s normal.

 

[cybele]

There is an older cartoon series called The Land Before Time, and it is so good at demonstrating how to be graceful when others are misbehaving or being unfair. The dinosaur characters are children, with the kind of conflicts children have, and rather than getting "justice" every time someone is wronged, they handle it with grace and maturity and move on. Such great examples. I used that series a lot when my daughter was navigating early friendships. We talked about what made Little Foot's approach so effective, specifically. You might try to locate the series.

Off topic, but my oldest absolutely loved Cera. She did a perfect imitation of the "My father always said that flat heads had really small brains" scene. In hindsight that probably wasn't a good thing.

 

[artmom]

Off topic, but my oldest absolutely loved Cera. She did a perfect imitation of the "My father always said that flat heads had really small brains" scene. In hindsight that probably wasn't a good thing.

My daughter's favorite was Petri.

You can't always rely on movies and T.V. to help solve kids problems.

Pay attention to how the adults around her behave towards each other and what they say. Make yourself aware of any triggers or anything she may be learning this type of manipulation. She could have developed this a long time ago and the longer it continuous the harder it will be to change it.

I would have just taken the toy away and at the first meltdown, put them to bed, ignoring her cries to go home. Eventually, her pleading will get old and she will find it isn't working.