College Dorm Fear...

[willow26]

My son doesn’t fear it, I do. Anyone else have experience with this, especially regarding Auraria (Denver) campus dorms? The lease both kid & parent have to sign to get in has provisions basically saying you’re responsible for the acts of everyone who lives there.

Parts of the lease, word for word (emphasis added)

“Maintenance, Alterations, and Repairs

You are responsible for, and will take good care of, the Premises and the furniture in the Premises and Common Areas. You are required to repay Landlord, within ten (10) days after Landlord sends you an invoice, for the cost of all repairs made necessary by you or your guests or the negligent or careless use of the Premises or any part of the Apartment Community, including, without limitation, damages from waste water stoppages cause by foreign or improper objects in lines serving your bathroom; damage to furniture; appliances, doors, windows, or screens; damage from windows or doors left open and repairs or replacements to security devices necessitated by misuse or damage from you or your guests (this includes damages that may have been made to the Apartment Community by other residents of the Apartment Community if Landlord cannot determine who was responsible for damages).”

and

“DEFAULT

You are in default of this lease if:

Any illegal drugs or illegal drug paraphernelia are found in the Premises (whether or not Landlord can establish possession, Landlord may refer any violation to the police);” (the Premises under definitions includes Common Areas that all residents have access to) (does this mean if they find drugs in the laundry room they could default anyone?)

There’s a rule about smoking where they can default you if there’s “evidence” of (anyone) smoking.

Not paying the unfair fee wouldn’t really be an option. They can charge fees for repairs and that payment is due in 10 days; they would take part of the next rent payment as the fee and consider the rent partially unpaid. If the tenant defaults the rent for the entire lease period goes from the “discounted rate” to the “market rate” ($130/mo more) immediately and they withhold meal plan until that is paid. Taking the landlord to court would need to occur after the fees are paid to protect the resident in case he loses.

There are 2,095 dorm beds for Auraria in 3 separate complexes. I would like to start a parents group for parents of kids in those dorms. I don't know how I would find the other parents.

Maybe there’s reason for concern, maybe not. After all, in order to make a profit they have to please at least some of the residents, to get them to come back. But I feel like if the parents band together we’ll have some power. There are some reviews online on apartment ratings and yelp complaining about unfair fines and charges, but not that many.

So the question is, are they really fining kids unfairly or are there so few
gripes because only a few troublemakers were targeted? Do all dorms make you sign something like this or is college-owned student housing more fair? How can I find other parents of kids in the dorms to team up and share our experiences?

 

[singledad]

Obviously they expect student to t take responsibility and hold their peers accountable. Sounds like a good system to me.

Also, I seriously doubt they'd just randomly fined everyone. I'll bet those rules are just to avoid students getting away with saying "that isn't mine and you can't prove that it is"

I wouldn't worry to much if I were you.

 

[akmom]

University housing is generally exempt from the landlord/tenant laws of that state. So I wouldn't be surprised if they had stricter rules. When I was in college, there were a lot of disputed charges among the residents. I myself disputed a charge and they reversed it (preexisting damage). I do not know how many were actually "unfair" or even how many disputed charges were reversed. I know that a lot of people automatically dispute everything. I also know that there was a lot of outrageous behavior going on among teens who were living away from their parents for the first time. They kind of had to take a heavy-handed approach or the place would be completely uninhabitable. I did not go to college in Colorado, but I imagine the situation is similar among all states.

Can your son rack up enormous charges by simply living with slobs? Probably not. If one of the roommates was doing serious damage, would the others know and report him? Probably. Might your son be charged for small expenses that weren't necessarily his fault? It's possible. And handling that himself will be one of his first real-life experiences with adulthood. Resist the urge to rob him of that.

College - specifically dorm life - is designed for young adults experiencing independence for the first time. Whatever happens is almost certainly going to be manageable. Therefore a "parent group" (a.k.a. helicopter parent group) seems unfitting. Do you really want to deprive young adults of their independence in order to bully a landlord out of some small charges? I don't think so, and I don't think such an idea would be very welcome on campus at all.

As for drugs... no, the landlord cannot "default" declare them in possession of drugs. That is a criminal matter and such a charge would have to come from the DA, with the same burden of proof and standard of evidence we all enjoy. Can he call the cops and authorize entry if he suspects drug use? Yes, but that is the least of your worries.

 

[willow26]

Thanks for your replies. Singledad, I hope you're right. I just wish that what everyone thinks that means, is what it actually said in the lease. Why say in the lease you can charge one person for another's damage without evidence if you plan to never do that?

Akmom, it does make me feel better to hear that your student housing had disputed charges too, that this isn't a phenomenon that is just at this facility. It does worry me that online complaints on apartmentratings and google for the two other complexes do not complain about charges, but about other things, which makes me think this complex is worse for that.

I did end up getting him a single due to my concerns and his preference.

I don't know that any of the charges would be small. The first offense for rule breaking is $50, I guess that's not too bad, then it goes to $100, $200, and $300. The "evidence of smoking" charge is $250 any time.

I wish these rules could promote independence and experience with adulthood, but unfortunately, I just don't see how that's possible. Some of the kids might have jobs, but most don't. The wait for work study on campus is years. Remember the parent has to sign as guarantor. Having a jobless kid not pay the fine would result in the following: parent's credit tanked; rent increased by $130 a month for the whole lease so if you're six months in that's a $780 immediate charge; meal plan cancelled until whole thing paid; possible eviction unless whole thing paid and subsequent inability to rent anywhere in that state. That's like teaching someone that falling hurts by watching them jump off a cliff. And obviously charging the parents doesn't teach the kid a thing. How is that helpful exactly?

Now if they implemented actual consequences that were ongoing and affected the kids personally that would make much more sense. Like they have amenities and group activities, maybe they could restrict them from them for a period of time. They could have contests and say, you can't participate this month because you did yadda-yadda. Maybe if the kid doesn't have the $ for the fine they could work it off! That would be super.

Oh, as far as the legal aspect, no, defaulting on a rental lease is not criminal. It's two different things. According to the lease, you are in default if you or your guest violates any of the rules or regulations or violates any law "whether or not an arrest or conviction occurs." Remember the default is an automatic rent increase of $130 a month for the entire lease term.

 

[willow26]

I guess there are some positive things too that need to be balanced. For one, being a dorm he has no kitchen no need to cook or do dishes, and all bills are included. For another, when I went in to finalize his lease I discovered they have a pet dog--for the whole community. Beautiful dog too, a rescue. I hope he meets other students and has a good time. That's not something he would be able to do in a regular apartment. It's only 10 months, he can move out if it turns out to be a disaster.

Here are the online complaints that made me nervous in the first place. The other two buildings do not have complaints like this, their complaints are only about drugs/alcohol, management, maintenence, etc.

"They hit you with rediculous fines any chance they get. "

"As a parent we were elated to move out daughter in, it looked like a great place. [...]. They treat your child like crap and will back down when your standing in front of them. It looks like a great place, but it is not the environment you want for your child. We ended up moving our daughter to Fort Collins and she loves every bit of the community and the college life."

"The management tried to make me pay for a kids broken door because I was 'there when it happened'. The staff will try and fine you for every little thing you can."

"Owners who are out to gouge residents. "

" they will bully you if they don't like you."

"there are things to consider before signing their 10 page contract. "

"They take your money and ask any old resident (not some ca or ra) and they will agree with me that you will be ripped off. "

"all about making $$$. so, expect to be fined at least once."

"The people here only want your money. "

" management will fine you for every little thing you do wrong to make up for lost profit. Watch out, you will spend more money to live at the Regency than any other student housing around Denver."

 

[TabascoNatalie]

Student accomodation can be pretty much a rip-off. Have you considered private tenancy, as an alternative to dorm?

 

[willow26]

[sigh of relief] thank you, Natalie. I know there are other people out there who had this experience!

It's a little complicated. He has several options. He is getting four scholarships this year. They are non-renewing so we don't know what the financial situation will be next year.

Market rate apartments are out of the question where we live. According to one site, average studio rent is $901, according to another, $1012. Not including utilities or bills. There are quite a few large areas that are pretty dangerous. I know we're not New York or Chicago but there are serious gang problems here. In many neighborhoods shots are common. His rent at the dorm including all utilities internet and phone is $675, so that's like paying $545 for an apartment.

On the other hand, there's federally subsidized housing and low income housing. This may seem like a no brainer but there are cons to it. There's the fact that there are no other students around and the whole issue of food, buying it, preparing it, cleaning up after it. There won't be as much socializing opportunity. When I went to college on the same mostly commuter campus of 40,000 students I didn't really make any friends, I don't drink, and everyone else was like, go to class, go to work, go home.

Low income housing wouldn't be much cheaper this year because they do charge 1/3 of all scholarships & grants above tuition as rent when they calculate your rent. So he'll have the dorm experience this year, we'll see how it goes, and we'll see if he gets scholarships next year or wants to stay. If he makes some friends that's good, maybe it was worth it.

Teaching kids by fining parents... okay, I guess the punishment will be that they can't live in the dorm the next year. But that effectively eliminates a lot of low class students who are relying solely on financial aid from the dorm option. I'm veering off into a federal-education-policy discussion so I'll stop now...

 

[akmom]

Where I went to college, dorm rates were far lower than anything you could find in the surrounding community. And I believe there is a great benefit to living on campus. There's no commute, the environment is conducive to learning, and you're surrounded by other students. It really gives you a chance to focus entirely on academics. I truly think it's the best option for most freshmen.

Remember that no one goes online to write positive reviews. They only go on there if there is something to complain about! And frankly the comments you quoted are very vague. Specific grievances garner more concern in my mind.

That said, I think that when you are helping with your child's educational expenses, there is an understanding between you and the child. It's not the university's or landlord's responsibility to protect you from that liability. As parents, we are automatically responsible for our minors, so schools try to deliver consequences to the children and not their parents. When they're adults, you are entering that arrangement voluntarily. Presumably you are investing in your child because you trust them. So if they betray that trust, the expectation is that you will work it out with them one-on-one, instead of involving the landlord.

For example, you might demand that he pay the $50 fine himself. He can do that by getting a summer job or a part-time job off campus. (I recommend the former until he is well-established as a student and knows what kind of schedule he can handle.) It's a good idea for college students to work anyway, and contribute at least a portion of their earnings toward school. Then they have a personal stake in their finances. Statistically, students who pay for their own education are more likely to graduate. So don't feel like you are being unsupportive by asking him to take on some of the responsibility.

Restricting amenities, group activities or contests seems a little juvenile for that age group. I don't think it would have much effect. Would you be deterred if someone threatened to exclude you from a contest for certain behavior? I think not. Remember, he's an adult too.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

Will he have a bedroom to himself or will he have to share?

 

[willow26]

Natalie I decided to get him a single in order to alleviate any concerns with sharing a room. It's a room and a bathroom.

akmom, I'm glad you feel dorms are helpful, as I said we're paying a bit more than he would in low-income housing so I hope it's worth it. Fining a parent does not teach kids anything by itself, it then leaves it up to the parent to handle the situation as they see fit with their kid. I taught my son you don't sign a contract unless you are able and intend to fulfill it. I intend to fulfill my end of this contract and he knows that.

It was never my concern in the original post that he would break any rules or need to be taught anything or that anyone would need to be taught anything. I do trust him. My concern is about this particular management being unprofessional in multiple ways such as fining kids for things they did not do, or as one parent reviewer put it, treating them "like crap."

When you compare the reviews of the 3 communities this is the one that repeatedly has those concerns about fining you rampantly and treating kids badly. This post is not about teaching or rule breaking, though I'm sure those things happen there, it's about this company potentially being shady or at best difficult to work with.

There's not really an answer unless you had a kid that lived there. I would like to hear if anyone had a bad experience with a private dorm or student housing yourself. I would like to hear people weigh in on whether it's worth it to live in a dorm, considering he does have another option after this year.

Sorry if I didn't express that well enough originally.

 

[akmom]

Why did you choose this particular dorm with the bad reviews? Does it have special features that the others don't? Is it cheaper?

I would think the risk of getting fined for others' behavior is pretty low if he has his own room and bathroom. That's kind of like an apartment! On the other hand, it might not promote socializing like a traditional dorm arrangement. I always had a roommate and communal bathroom facilities, and so I always had an automatic study partner, as well as some accountability in terms of keeping the room clean and not staying up all night. It seemed like the single occupants (of which there were only a few in the building) never came out of their rooms, and gamed or watched TV late into the night.

Where I live there is a wait list for subsidized housing... I never heard of it being an option for students. This was the case where I went to college as well. But even if there is that option, I would NOT recommend it. I know I'm treading in dangerous territory by saying this... and I don't mean to label everyone in subsidized housing with the same brush... but the demographics of that living situation might not create a great atmosphere for someone who wants to study. Having worked in subsidized housing briefly, this was my experience: 1/3 of them are decent families on the lower end of socioeconomic spectrum, 1/3 of them are significantly disabled, and 1/3 of them are chronic alcoholics/substance abusers. That creates a high percentage of neighborly issues, from people who are physically or mentally unable to maintain a clean place (think trash piled up by the doorway, roach infestations), to people who are frequently drunk/high and become nuisances. I'm sure some facilities are better and some are worse, but I just think you're more likely to find a good fit for a student in a facility for students.

 

[willow26]

Yeah, it is a bit cheaper. The others charge more $ for, instead of your own room and bathroom, a set of rooms that share a bathroom (like four rooms and two bathrooms). There are also kitchens in those units, which I don't think is necessarily a good thing when you're sharing them: think roach infestations!

I envisioned him getting along with a roommate as well but I never lived in a dorm. I was in subsidized housing while in college. My sister lived in a dorm, and she did not think he should have a roommate. She said she has seen grown men bully, because that's what people do when they are uncomfortable. I do think he would benefit from learning to live with someone else, but I had to weigh that against other factors. He wanted a single. I told him if he meets someone he gets along with, he can still choose to share a room with that person next year.

There is a wait list of 6 months for subsidized. It used to be available to all students but several years ago they changed the law. There are two kinds of housing. Straight section 8 will take students only if they 1) are independent same as they define you for financial aid or 2) parents have low income. I fall into the second category. The other type of housing is now LIHTC. LIHTC will not take any <U>single </U>student including high school!! So homeless disabled teens trying to finish high school aged 18-20 don't deserve housing? That's Congress for you.

He is already in a low income unit now. I agree with you on residents. He did make two friends and has had no issues with neighbors. He can always re-apply since he is leaving them on good terms.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

Here in UK, besides dorms, there is such category as student housing, basically a shared private house or flat, just different set of regulations. Anything like that in USA?

 

[willow26]

Interesting. What I'm talking about may be a combination of the two. For this particular campus which has 3 public schools and 40,000 students on one campus, the schools themselves do not own any housing but three private companies have taken it upon themselves to buy buildings, add a "dining hall" and make them into student housing. Student status is required to live there.

One of the three schools told all their freshman out of town students they must live in one of the three buildings. This cooperation between government and private business is probably illegal, so one of the other student buildings (the one my son is moving into) sued and now they're in federal court.

Any any rate, all the kids bills are included, meal plans are required, and even when multiple kids are in one room they are all billed separately so when one defaults on the rent the rest are not charged for it. That's the major difference from regular apartments.