Daughter's hot and cold personality...

[sottilare]

Hey there,
New to the site because I don't have a lot of parent friends and I need some advice.

Some quick background on me: My girlfriend got pregnant when she and I were 16... she ended up having the baby, leaving her in my care, and moving away. She and I have spoken maybe three times after that.. basically, she is not in my life or my daughter's. My daughter is now 15 years old, an upcoming sophomore in high school.

The problem:
My daughter (Ashley) has always been a hot and cold type of person, even as a small child. She would be nice and mean. Shy and outgoing. Calm and hyper. Never an in-between type.
Now I am noticing that she is acting even more extreme. One day she will be completely affectionate and helpful and sweet, and I will say one thing "wrong" and she will lash out at me, cursing, not responding to ANYTHING I say, sometimes even acting violent. I try to stay patient, especially since I know she's a teenager, but sometimes I can't handle it. I'm a single dad, there is no female presence in the house, which I know affects her... but I don't know what to do about that.

There is no punishment that seems to work. I've taken away her phone, her Internet, her allowance, grounded her, yelled at her, reasoned with her... everything is just whatever to her. If she's grounded with no phone or laptop she sits in her room and reads and does homework and studies all day.... how can I fight against that?

The main problem I have is the tone in her voice, her "attitude" I guess. I try to not let it get to me but sometimes it's just ridiculous. And when we argue about something, she almost always curses at me, which I just can't stand. Maybe this is the wrong place to admit here but I've gotten physical with her twice over the summer because of that, once by grabbing her wrist and once by raising my hand (but not actually hitting)... and it replays in my head again and again because I feel guilty about it...

What can I do about this? When Ashley is in a good mood, she's amazing. But I often feel like I tiptoe around her so I won't make her mad. I wonder if I've spoiled her or if she is manipulating me.

Any advice?

 

[mom2many]

Have you had her evaluated? Those type of emotions are not normal teenage behavior. Yes, teens can be moody but what you described is not just hot and cold, it's extreme highs and lows. Big difference.

 

[sottilare]

She has never actually been to therapy though I have suspected for a long time that she may be a borderline personality... but of course, I have no right to diagnose her. It's hard to think about having her evaluated or anything like that. I just thought that for now I'd try to handle it by myself. Is that ignorant of me?

 

[MomoJA]

I agree with M2M. Her behaviors sound extreme. It's not ignorant for you to want to handle things, but it is probably mistaken.

If it is a hormonal inbalance, that can be handled with medication or even without medication in some cases. I know people are hesitant to put their children on meds, and I don't know how I would accept doing so. But I sort of think of meds as something like glasses. They make things easier, and no one would expect their child to struggle through without them.

The medications for these sorts of things are not like they used to be. It's not a choice of being drugged numb or living with your issue.

 

[sottilare]

How do I know if I myself am not just short-fused or if Ashley genuinely has some kind of emotional problem?

Like I said before, she's always tended to be this way (which is why I thought more recently that she might have BPD) but then again, that could just be her, you know?

As much as I hate to admit it, do you all think the fact that I had her so young is a major factor in all this? She has never had a stable mother figure in her life, but as far as I know she has never vocalized anything about that issue. Is that a legitimate concern that I should be having?

I'm just at a loss these days really.

 

[mom2many]

Your age had nothing to do with it, nor does not having her mom..those would be excuses. Look what harm will come from talking to a therapist? None, the good that could come from it would be a world of difference in her life and yours.

Gonna get a little personal here with my story of my oldest...

When my oldest turned 17 there were things that were off, he already had some learning disabilities but these were things that were within normal but not normal, if that makes sense.
So I pushed it aside, then my other kids started to notice, there were highs and lows but again not extreme. Then the school called me cause they had noticed some things that were off but again nothing that was overally alarming. Then one day he started asking questions that made no sense, things like are you really mom and googling his name and looking at missing childrens reports. It took months to get it figured out but he is Bi-Polar with mania, his meds are night and day. I almost have my son back, could have just kept shrugging it off but the truth is the only one being hurt was him.

Have you talked to her about it? Has she been able to explain what it feels like when she looses control?

 

[sottilare]

This is what makes it hard.... because when she is being nice and sweet, it seems like everything is absolutely fine. She is charming and loveable and reminds me of when she was a young child. And she doesn't have any issues at school, she is actually excelling, honor roll and all that, so there is nothing to suggest that she actually has a problem.

But then we get into a minor argument and she will shut down on me. First, she will cuss me out and then when I finally end up yelling back (which almost always happens) she shuts herself up and doesn't respond to me at all.

I always ask her if she's having any problems or wants to talk about anything, but I can only have a conversation with her when she's in a happy mood and then she'll always say no I'm totally fine.

I know that going to therapy would be the safest bet but there is a financial issue with that. I don't have health insurance and what I do make won't be enough to get her what she needs, if it is something like bipolar or depression.

I guess what I'm asking is is there a way to get through to her without getting her mad. And when she gets into these angry rages what is the best way to calm her down, but in a way that she will actually respond to me.

 

[singledad]

I'm coming to this a bit lat, but I want to add my 2c.

She has never actually been to therapy though I have suspected for a long time that she may be a borderline personality... but of course, I have no right to diagnose her. It's hard to think about having her evaluated or anything like that. I just thought that for now I'd try to handle it by myself. Is that ignorant of me?

Maybe not ignorant - human. Its hard to face something like that. Fact is, if she does have bpd, you won't be able to handle it by yourself, period. Bpd is much more than just moodiness. Its a very real and very difficult disorder, and those who have it need a lot of intensive therapy to enable them to live normal, happy lives. Trying to handle it on your own will not do either of you any favours.

I know that going to therapy would be the safest bet but there is a financial issue with that. I don't have health insurance and what I do make won't be enough to get her what she needs, if it is something like bipolar or depression.

I'm sorry, but here I have to be a bit critical. If you suspected that she had diabetes or cancer, you would find the money to have her treated somewhere. Mental illness is no different. And if you think that bibolar / bpd isn't lethal - consider that 10% of bpd sufferers end up commiting suicide, and for bipolar the percentage is even higher - something like 1 in 4... (And that's excluding those who die as a result of the self-destructive tendencies of bpd sufferes, like drog overdoses, car accidents, etc.

She needs to be evaluated by a professional, and if she is diagnosed, she needs to be treated. Find the money - sell something, borrow it, get her into a state-funded programme - just find out what is wrong, and get her help!

I guess what I'm asking is is there a way to get through to her without getting her mad. And when she gets into these angry rages what is the best way to calm her down, but in a way that she will actually respond to me.

Get hold of the book "stop walking on eggshells by... I forgot who, but google it. It won't really help her - it'll help you.

 

[Father_0f_7]

Get hold of the book "stop walking on eggshells by... I forgot who

Paul T. Mason and Randi Kreger

 

[parentastic]

Fact is, if she does have bpd, you won't be able to handle it by yourself, period. Bpd is much more than just moodiness. Its a very real and very difficult disorder, and those who have it need a lot of intensive therapy to enable them to live normal, happy lives. Trying to handle it on your own will not do either of you any favours.

Dear Sottilare, I have to agree wholeheartedly with singledad on this. The description you gave does not allow us to make any true diagnosis - only a competent psychologist or even a psychiatrist has the proper training to diagnose mental illness such as bipolar disorder or borderline personality disorder.
However, on the off chance that this is truly the case, you cannot handle this on your own. So if you suspect that your child might suffer from one of these problem, please do not delay and make sure to have her assess by a professional.

The book referred to you by singledad and father-of-7 is excellent. Read it, and if you feel yourself matching the description in the book, it might really help you.

This being said, yes, there are ways to get through to her, especially if she is not suffering from a pathological mental illness but is caught in a loop through the dynamic she has with you.

The main problem I have is the tone in her voice, her "attitude" I guess. I try to not let it get to me but sometimes it's just ridiculous.

Could you provide some examples?

And when we argue about something, she almost always curses at me, which I just can't stand.

How do you usually react when she does this?

But the first step is really to have her assessed. Otherwise, I might suggest a lot of things here and end up being all wrong if she indeed suffers from this.

Nicolas
Family Life Educator

 

[sottilare]

I'm sorry, but here I have to be a bit critical. If you suspected that she had diabetes or cancer, you would find the money to have her treated somewhere. Mental illness is no different. And if you think that bibolar / bpd isn't lethal - consider that 10% of bpd sufferers end up commiting suicide, and for bipolar the percentage is even higher - something like 1 in 4... (And that's excluding those who die as a result of the self-destructive tendencies of bpd sufferes, like drog overdoses, car accidents, etc.

Yes, I guess I haven't really thought of that way, but I am just afraid that there is nothing wrong with her and I'm just overreacting and being paranoid. I'm always afraid that I am treating her too fragily or being too overprotecting, and taking her to therapy would make her feel like there is something wrong with her, when she is just being a normal teenager. Does that make sense? And so far, I don't think I've seen her do anything "bad" like drugs or skipping school... so like I said, I really can't tell if she's just being mean to me because she's irritable or if there is a real problem.

That being said, thank you for the book recommendation, I think I'll look into that first.

Could you provide some examples?


How do you usually react when she does this?

For example, I'll ask her to put away the laundry because it's been sitting in the dryer for a whole week and she'll snap back, I'm not retarded, I'll DO IT. So I ask her if she can't speak more nicely to me, I didn't say anything offensive or mean to you. And then she'll roll her eyes and say, then stop being annoying.

Or in more extreme cases, she'll outright curse at me with something like "I'm so f-ing tired of you." My reaction, at least when I'm trying to be patient, will be to say, you cannot speak to me that way, I don't curse at you so don't curse at me, and she will get more in my face about it and say "I don't give a f- what you say." Other times, when I get really mad at her, I do end up yelling at her and that's when she completely shuts down, has no expression on her face, and says nothing.

And when her mood has passed she will act "normal" again, but she will never apologize for her actions. If I try to bring it up, she only changes the subject.

Is this just how teens act? Maybe this is getting too personal but I would have never thought to act this way with my own parents because they would have hurt me physically for it. That was a major influence on how I parented Ashley because I have never hit her or spanked her, and never thought to ever do so, until recently because that is literally how much she exasperates me and pushes my buttons. I still would never do it, but I'm just saying that's how far she takes it sometimes.

 

[parentastic]

For example, I'll ask her to put away the laundry because it's been sitting in the dryer for a whole week and she'll snap back, I'm not retarded, I'll DO IT. So I ask her if she can't speak more nicely to me, I didn't say anything offensive or mean to you. And then she'll roll her eyes and say, then stop being annoying.

So far, that sounds just like some typical rebellious teenager attitude.
How active listening could be applied to the above dialogue:
"Aww... you feel I am treating you as if you are retarded when I ask you to put away the laundry?" (rephrasing, trying to capture the core of what she said)
Or: "You feel I don't trust you...?" (trying to capture what is under her words)
and then after:
"You feel I am always on your case...?" (trying to respond to the "stop being annoying", is that what she might be feeling?)
This can open the door for her to really tell you what is going on.

Or in more extreme cases, she'll outright curse at me with something like "I'm so f-ing tired of you." My reaction, at least when I'm trying to be patient, will be to say, you cannot speak to me that way, I don't curse at you so don't curse at me, and she will get more in my face about it and say "I don't give a f- what you say."

Again, that does sound fairly typical of a strained relationship between a parent and a teenager, not bdp or anything particular.
To use active listening on the above situation, try to focus on her emotion instead of focusing on the bad words she is using. When you point to her that she is using offensive words, you put the focus on you and you make it a lecture.. which is why you get the "I don't give a f- what you say".

Instead, listen to her. Active listening could sound like:
"Ouch! You really seem to be fed-up of me right now."
You can address your issues (such as how it's not cool to be addressed with name calling and curses) AFTER you have truly listened to her.

Other times, when I get really mad at her, I do end up yelling at her

Children learn most of their behavior from their parents. If you end up yelling, even if you do it only in extreme cases, then that's where she is modelling her own yelling. I am not saying this as a blame at all - it happens to any parent at some point - I am just saying that it is precisely because you lose your temper that she didn't quite learned to take control of her own emotions.

and that's when she completely shuts down, has no expression on her face, and says nothing.

Which is another classic defense mechanism, very typical of adolescence and a strained parent-child relationship. So far, I don't see anything in there that is worrisome of a mental health problem (unless you have other, more violent and/or frequent episodes). Not that there is no problem there - certainly, there are many thing you can do to improve the situation, by working on the relationship itself and changing the dynamic, but that sounds to me in the realm of "fairly typical".

And when her mood has passed she will act "normal" again, but she will never apologize for her actions.

Did you ever apologized for your own actions that lead to this situation?
You can't expect her to apologize if you don't start modeling it too.

If I try to bring it up, she only changes the subject.

If you start by apologizing first, she might also agree not to change the subject. It's worth a try. But it has to be sincere.

Is this just how teens act? Maybe this is getting too personal but I would have never thought to act this way with my own parents because they would have hurt me physically for it. That was a major influence on how I parented Ashley because I have never hit her or spanked her, and never thought to ever do so, until recently because that is literally how much she exasperates me and pushes my buttons.

Not all teens act this way, no. And it is certainly not because of spanking. Let's put it this way: when children are spanked or physically hurt for acting bad, they may refrain from displaying this behavior, but they don't think less of their parents. The difference might be that she feels free to speak her mind, instead of hiding it - which is a good thing. The real problem is rather, why is she thinking that way in the first place? Why does she feels aggravated by your parenting?
You will know only when you start a real dialogue and you can only do that when you truly listen. Each time your daughter speaks harshly at you, there is an inner child inside her that is in pain. You've got to read past the nasty front and into her heart.

I hope this helps,

Nicolas
Family Life Educator

 

[singledad]

Yes, I guess I haven't really thought of that way, but I am just afraid that there is nothing wrong with her and I'm just overreacting and being paranoid. I'm always afraid that I am treating her too fragily or being too overprotecting, and taking her to therapy would make her feel like there is something wrong with her, when she is just being a normal teenager. Does that make sense? And so far, I don't think I've seen her do anything "bad" like drugs or skipping school... so like I said, I really can't tell if she's just being mean to me because she's irritable or if there is a real problem.

That being said, thank you for the book recommendation, I think I'll look into that first.

Don't wait. Rather be paranoid than let her struggle alone. The book is for you, not for her. As m2m said - having her evaluated can't do any harm. Not doing it, can cause her years and years of pain and suffering...

 

[oliko]

There is only one question here - puberty) Try not to overreact and help your girl pass this difficult period of her life

 

[Jillybean356]

I think that she's at the most emotional age of her life and that this is pretty normal and should only get better. But i dont have a teenager so I guess I wouldn't know. Hope things get better!!

 

[Christopher]

We went through something very similar with our teenage daughter. And, as another suggested it could be Bipolar Disorder. In our case it was. A word of warning, from what we experienced.
A person with BPD needs to be on medication to live a normal life in spite of the radical ups and downs. When they do not get treatment or stop following that treatment, there is a tendency to self-medicate.
This tendency led our daughter into drug addiction. Please understand, this was our experience and may not be yours. But it is a serious thing that needs very much to be attended to.

 

[sottilare]

Thank you all so much. I've been having some serious conversations with Ashley and I've learned much more than I could have ever imagined. I guess it only takes a little sensitivity and patience to get through to a child... though it's still difficult to hear when your child is experiencing something you can't "cure" by yourself.

Anyway, I think I'm going to look into some counseling sessions for her so she can at least talk it out when someone who isn't me (which I think maybe hard for her).

Another quick question: Should I get a female or male therapist? I asked her and she says she doesn't care but I'm not sure... I think she might be more comfortable talking to a male since she's never really talked to an adult female before... but maybe a female might be what she needs to open up more? What do you guys think?

 

[parentastic]

I've been having some serious conversations with Ashley and I've learned much more than I could have ever imagined. I guess it only takes a little sensitivity and patience to get through to a child...

Yes, most of the work I do with my parenting groups is really to lead you there: there is a lot of things going on if only we are ready to listen. Kudos to you for getting there!

Anyway, I think I'm going to look into some counseling sessions for her so she can at least talk it out when someone who isn't me (which I think maybe hard for her).

If you'd like acquire better skills at listening so you can help your daughter better when you are around, let me know and I can recommend some books for you to read.

Another quick question: Should I get a female or male therapist? I asked her and she says she doesn't care but I'm not sure... I think she might be more comfortable talking to a male since she's never really talked to an adult female before... but maybe a female might be what she needs to open up more? What do you guys think?

If it is related to abuse in her past, or something related to sexuality, there can be many reasons for which she might feel more at ease with either one or the other gender. Other than that, what REALLY matters is to be really careful WHO you pick as a counselor. There are a LOT of "psychotherapists" out there, with little real professional formation. You need to make sure you find a psychologist - not just a psychotherapist. Psychologists are screened by the American Psychological Association, while many other so called "professionals" aren't.

You can go here on the American Psychological Association to find a psychologist using your zip code for your area. There are also many other criteria, allowing you to find a psychologist that is specialized on children and on the sort of problem she needs helps with.

Good luck!
Nicolas, Family Life Educator