don't read this if you have a weak stomach....

[mom2many]

TN...my son already has a severe learning disability, it borders on autistic, but it isn't, I am not always so sure, but he has had years and years of testing. Schisophrenia was our first thought, and even now the doc isn't one hundred perecent sure it's bi-polar and not schiso, so this is a day by day thing with him.

 

[Cop2be]

Wow...just wow...I wish I hadn't read that at all. That was horrible.
I can't beleive these mothers get off by pleading insanity. I think they should all be given the death penalty, what those women have done deserves it.

 

[16th ave.]

here's the follow-up..seems some warning signs Were Missed.
Warning signs missed in baby dismemberment case - Yahoo! News

after reading the article, there appears to be some things that may have sabotaged this woman and her kids' lives from the very beginning. and raises alot more questions.

 

[Xero]

but: where is the comfort if or when they are found to be mentally ill?

I said fate, not judgement. I'm talking about hell. It doesn't matter what the judge decides where those women are eventually going to end up.

 

[Dadu2004]

I said fate, not judgement. I'm talking about hell. It doesn't matter what the judge decides where those women are eventually going to end up.

Definately a matter of opinion, but I happen to agree.

 

[Xero]

Yeah, you're right haha it is a questionable and personal opinion and everyone here is entitled to disagree with me should they feel differently.

 

[Skyburning]

That follow-up article is sad. I'm sure her sister is carrying around a lot of guilt.

 

[16th ave.]

That's awful.. well you know, both of those mothers have a terrible fate ahead of them and I can take comfort in that.

ok, so a mentally ill person who committed a heinous crime. didn't know what they were doing because they are mentally ill. mentally ill person's fate is that that they will be going to hell.

you can take comfort in that?.
that's like saying because someone is born with 3 legs, is purple or blue or green, has half a heart and so on, things they couldn't change then they will be going to hell too. a mentally ill person committed a crime, something that was bound to happen if/when family members stopped paying attention to what was going on with this person, especially this person's immediate family has stopped keeping an eye out. just b/c someone that severly sick has become an adult--i don't think it should mean that their immediate family should stop keeping an eye out..
so to me that's just wrong. if a person in their right mind would have committed such a heinous crime<----then i could understand taking comfort in their fate of going to hell. but i just can't understand how someone could take comfort in an extremely mentally ill person's fate like that.:nah:

but hey to be able to commit these kinds of things a person would really have to be mentally ill anyway. soooo......

 

[Xero]

16th ave, I stated very clearly that it was a matter of opinion, and I am not going to put your opinion down, but I don't think its necessary to react so drastically to mine.

She ate a baby's BRAIN.

I'm not talking about people being born different, I'm talking about people being responsible for their actions. There is a huge difference there.

So are YOU saying that a pedophile (which by the way, pedophilia is a mental illness, proven by cat scans of the brain and a diagnosis as something you are BORN WITH) should be able to rape kids and still get pitty? Because it wasn't his fault, he couldn't control it?? You don't think the guy that rapes a toddler until she's torn apart and dead deserves to go to hell? This is opinion, but you need to know that there is a huge difference between the examples you listed and what we are talking about.

Mentally ill people aren't going to hell (and hell is an opinion as well, so this entire conversation is opinionated) but the people who hurt other people and do wrong disgusting things like raping kids and eating baby brains, REGUARDLESS of their mental state, in my OPINION, belong in hell.

So please don't generalize my comments like that, as in "all mentally ill people deserve to go to hell" and then trying to compare that to things people are born with that they can't change, because that was not what I was referring to nor do I think like that. I apologize for any confusion, however.

But if you take pitty in pedophiles, and mentally ill murderers, and things like that, that is entirely up to you. The way I see it (PERSONALLY), no matter what your mind looks like or how you were born, there is nothing in this world that makes it okay to maul an infant or slit your children's throats. I am a little confused as to how that could possibly offend you.

So after explanation, in honest answer to your question, yes, as a matter of fact, I can take comfort in knowing that mentally ill rapists and murderers will end up where they belong when the time comes.

 

[Rosa]

As someone who has spent her entire career working with patients with severe mental health problems, I do find your post very ignorant and offensive xero. People with psychosis, which this mother had, cannot distinguish between hallucinations and compulsions and 'normal' behavior. We had hundreds of women on our unit who appeared perfectly normal mentally, then suddenly they would grab the nearest item, sometimes another patient, nurser or furniture and try to rip it to pieces, then they stop suddenly and carry on with their day. You have to have cctv in mental health hospitals, not for safety, but to show patients what they are doing, it is very rare for a patient with psychosis to have recollection of their actions unless they find evidence in front of them, such as an injured person or torn clothes.

 

[fallon]

Rosa please mind your posts...I will not allow any member of this forum to called ignorant

 

[Xero]

Honestly, if my response offends anybody, I can delete it. I was trying to express my opinion, its just the way I feel. I could be right, I could be wrong. But the only person my opinion really matters to is myself, so its fine by me if its better off unsaid.

Rosa - I know about mental illness, and how things like that work, but I appreciate the facts anyway I suppose.

I want everybody to know that all I'm trying to say is that NO circumstances can justify the harm of an innocent person, and no diagnosis can make it "okay". I apologize if using the idea of fate was a little too strong or controversial for everybody. We really don't have to argue about it. I don't know why anyone would defend these actions. Its not worth it either way, I have my opinion and every one of you have yours and I respect that. Lets please just leave it at that. We don't need any offensive comments to be thrown around. Thank you.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

Xero -- mental illness is a touchy subject. it is easy to make wrong judgements.
as for crime committed by mentally ill people, it is not an excuse, but a responsibility of more people than just the offender. i mean, family and doctors as well.

 

[mom2many]

When I was younger I thought a lot like the way Zero did, but then the Andrea Yates thing happened and I started to wonder if it was so black and white, and as I said Ted happened and I learned first hand that in the throws of his disorder he has no clue what is real and what is in his head, his reality is so far off the mark, the things he said..I was seriously scared, for him and <U>of</U> him. So now I have a much greater compacity for compassion.

Should this mother go unpunished for what she did?.......NO, but does it have to be a jail cell, or would a mental insitution be better option? At least with a mental institution, she is put "away" but get's help. I keep thinking "what was going on in her head?" and how horrible what ever she was seeing had to be.

 

[16th ave.]

When I was younger I thought a lot like the way Zero did, but then the Andrea Yates thing happened and I started to wonder if it was so black and white, and as I said Ted happened and I learned first hand that in the throws of his disorder he has no clue what is real and what is in his head, his reality is so far off the mark, the things he said..I was seriously scared, for him and <U>of</U> him. So now I have a much greater compacity for compassion.

Should this mother go unpunished for what she did?.......NO, but does it have to be a jail cell, or would a mental insitution be better option? At least with a mental institution, she is put "away" but get's help. I keep thinking "what was going on in her head?" and how horrible what ever she was seeing had to be.

xero, you did nothing wrong in stating your opinion as did i. my intent in earlier posts was not to upset you or anyone but to simply point what mom2many has been able to say best.

once again i managed to screw up what i tried to say.
i apologize if i have up set you.

thank you mom2many.

 

[Xero]

That's fine, I honestly understand where Mom2Many is coming from and its not that I don't agree. I guess I've become bitter on the subject after how many hundreds and hundreds of sickening cases have been blamed on mental illness, whether the blame was right or wrong. That's really where my problem lies with this topic.

"What, you killed your kids?!?! Jail for you."

"Oh wait, actually... I'm crazy!!"

"Oh well in that case, you can go to the mental hospital until you feel better. You poor thing."

That's the kind of crap that bothers me.

16th ave, that's fine don't worry about it. Like I said, we are both entitled to our own opinion. Just things like -

" You can take comfort in that?!!??!"

Can be misconceived as a personal attack.

Otherwise, I am fine with accepting that sometimes people have to agree to disagree. I think we are both right in different ways.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

i'm wondering what is actually worse -- jail or mental hospital

 

[Dadu2004]

I feel the same way Xero does in this case. It's very easy to say "I'm crazy" or "Mentally Ill" in order to try and escape the punishment of jail to live in a golf-course resort of a mental hospital. In my opinion (I have no facts to back this up), I believe that most people that claim mental illness for their crimes are not mentally ill. They're using that claim to gain some advantage and compassion in the public eye.

You do the crime, you do the time. "Mentally Ill" or not.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

It's very easy to say "I'm crazy" or "Mentally Ill" in order to try and escape the punishment of jail to live in a golf-course resort of a mental hospital.

Do you believe that mental hospital is a resort?

 

[Dadu2004]

Many of them are. Not all, but a lot of them are big vacation homes with plenty of ammenities.