Herpes...

[sbattisti]

Here's an interesting one. I'm 40 and single. Been in the dating scene, and of course, practicing safe sex.

I started seeing a woman recently. Had maybe three dates. We made out a bit, no sex, but was clearly headed in that direction. So, she disclosed to me that she has herpes - HSV-1, to be precise.

I had to make a decision about whether this was a deal-killer or not. HSV-1 is EXTREMELY prevalent. Some estimates say that 70% of the adult U.S. population are carriers. It's basically the virus that causes cold sores. HSV-2 is genital herpes. HSV-1 is extremely contagious, often even through a simple kiss on the cheek, if the virus is "shedding," so it's possible you catch it through a simple kiss on the cheek with Aunt Bess.

To complicate matters further, apparently, each of the two types has a "site of preference" - HSV-1 in the mouth and HSV-II in the genitals - but each can "land" somewhere different. In her case, she has HSV-1 on her genitals. When the virus isn't in its site of preference, it's much weaker, generally speaking.

Anyway, I told her it was a deal-breaker for me, but I feel like a complete heel, for basically bowing to a social stigma, over something that I could just as easily catch from my grandma or something.

I guess, if I were head over heels for this woman, I may have considered further, but I had doubts from the beginning, and this was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back.

Thoughts?

Steve

 

[Jeremy+3]

It's only HSV-1, if you ruled people out who had it you would rule out most of the worlds population!

 

[ElliottCarasDad]

Yeah, odds are when you find the "one", she is gonna lie and say she doesn't have it. At least this one was upfront.

 

[Xero]

I think the only deal breaker for me would be that it is on "that" area haha. I honestly don't understand how you can have herpes 1 there, and not call it herpes 2 lol but I guess I just don't know enough about that. I have heard that herpes 1 can land on other parts of the body than the mouth, don't get me wrong, but I was under the understanding that on the genitals was 2.

Anyway, if I hadn't read on and I only saw that she had herpes 1 (which to my mind, would only be on the mouth) then I would tell you its no big deal at all. I have herpes 1, you know the one that causes cold sores on the lips. I have had it since I was a child, I was given a kiss by a careless family friend when I was about five and had the virus ever since. At this age, many years later, I only ever get a cold sore maybe once a year and it only ever lasts about a week, two maximum.

With that in mind, I'd like to remind everyone that I have had a couple of boyfriends and then my husband for five years throughout my life and also my 3 year old that I have kissed on the lips every day. I also have and do kiss my mom on the lips whenever I see her. I have never in my life given anyone herpes 1, and I'll tell you why. Because I am educated about it, and considerate enough to be extremely, rediculously careful. When I am starting to get one, I KNOW and I don't put my mouth near anybody at any time until it is 100% healed. NO EXCEPTIONS. I do NOT touch my mouth, and even still I wash my hands SEVERAL times a day when I have one. NO one is allowed to sip off of anything I am drinking out of, NO one is allowed to eat off of anything I am eating off of. I can not risk giving my child that virus, you know? And of course no one else.

If you meet a person that has this virus and does not take these precautions, then that is a deal breaker. Just having the virus to me is not, but that is only on the mouth. I would be confused if someone had it on their privates, and I think its hard to tell which virus it is first of all and second of all I think its too hard to tell if there is a breakout or not. Its a little bit more hidden down there rather than in plain view on the lips, and you would always have to trust her judgement on when was a good or bad time. I would just be too nervous. So I don't blame you there. I'm just saying that if a person is responsible, the kind you get on your mouth can be totally harmless.

 

[Jeremy+3]

HSV-1 is quite common on the genitals Xero, whether you have it on your mouth or another part of you as you said are contagious when you have an outbreak, but you are also contagious 5% of the time when you have no signs what so ever of an out break, sometimes it is called viral shedding.

But where ever you get HSV-1 it can still sometimes have bad effects (like most things), in some cases it can be in the eye which can cause blindness(it moves there on its own accord, you don't need to touch a sore and then your eye), and in others it can effect your brain, but the chances are very small.

Xero did you know as you already have HSV-1 on your mouth you cannot catch it anywhere else on your body, it also gives you some protection against HSV-2.

HSV-1 and HSV-2 are totally different virus's (only share 50% of the same DNA), it doesn't matter where they occur, you can also get HSV-2 on your mouth. However there are fewer complications associated with HSV-2, it cannot cause blindness, brain infection and it isn't as risky during child birth compared to HSV-1. HSV-2 is far far milder which means most people that have it never have any symptoms, so most women only find out when they are pregnant or having a smear test, but HSV-2 can show more out breaks in those who suffer symptoms.

 

[sbattisti]

That's the part that kind of freaks me out - the fact that the virus sheds even not during an outbreak.

I know it's a very common virus, depending on which numbers you believe. I also know that I could just as easily get it from a kiss on the cheek by mistake, or an unscrupulous lover.

At the same time, I *DON'T* have it right now, and I guess I wonder whether I want to risk that complication in my life. I mean, I SAW how hard and awkward it was for her to bring it up. I don't really want to be in that position myself in the future, if I can avoid it (which I have, to this point). I guess, if I really felt like "she was the one," then perhaps I would think about it a lot more. But as it is, she's just a nice girl I've been on a few dates with.

And not to freak you out, Xero, but of course you wouldn't know if your kids had it unless you've specifically had them tested. (I mean, if they had visible cold sores, that would be a giveaway, but even without that, they may have contracted it.)

*sigh*

 

[Xero]

That's not really true. Almost all cases of type 1 (which is the only one I'll refer to because I don't have to worry about type 2) are recognized by their initial outbreak. For instance, after I was exposed, the inside and outside of my mouth had a severe breakout of sores along with other symptoms. My sister was also exposed by a boyfriend when she was around 16 and she also went through the same initial breakout. That is the tell tale sign that you have been exposed to and gotten the virus. Very rarely do you get it and nothing happens at all, and even if it did it can NOT be 100% determined by a blood test. All they can do is try to test your blood for antibodies, and the test is not always accurate. The main test to tell you whether or not you have it is to test an active lesion, and that would never be necessary if one never appeared. If you never had symptoms, you may as well assume you do not have it because the likelihood of you contracting type 1 and not going through the initial outbreak, or ever a cold sore at all is extremely small. And if you NEVER had any symptoms (no sores), there's no way to tell for sure if you even have it in the first place so it doesn't even matter.

The "Asymptomatic viral shedding" you are referring to (because the word shedding by itself actually is referring to the appearance of a sore, and other viewable active symptoms) applies mostly to type 2, and it only happens a few days out of an entire year. Its also mainly contracted through mucous membranes etc, and very very unlikely to be contracted with skin to skin contact. So unless I am coming in contact with my son in a nasty way, he has basically slim to no chance of ever getting this from me when I am not showing symptoms. Now I do have sex with and make out with my husband, so there is plenty of that contact between us, and I wont deny the very SLIGHT possibility that he could get it even when I don't have symptoms, BUT its been a pretty clear 5 1/2 years so far.

Most of the time if people "have herpes and they don't know it" its because they have had sores and just didn't make the connection, not because they never had any symptoms at all. I would recognize the problem the moment I saw it if any of my family members contracted it. If they never showed any symptoms, then there's never any reason to worry.

And see, what you are saying by suggesting you could "have the virus and never know!" is that you could be having sex with anyone in the world that has never had a single symptom, and you have the same risk of getting the virus you are so worried about from people who have no idea that they have it (and therefor would never "warn" you). That right there just makes things a little too crazy I think lol. You may as well assume everyone has it at that rate, since there is no accurate way to blood test for it.

So don't worry. I'm not freaked out.

 

[Xero]

HSV-1 is quite common on the genitals Xero, whether you have it on your mouth or another part of you as you said are contagious when you have an outbreak, but you are also contagious 5% of the time when you have no signs what so ever of an out break, sometimes it is called viral shedding.

But where ever you get HSV-1 it can still sometimes have bad effects (like most things), in some cases it can be in the eye which can cause blindness(it moves there on its own accord, you don't need to touch a sore and then your eye), and in others it can effect your brain, but the chances are very small.

Xero did you know as you already have HSV-1 on your mouth you cannot catch it anywhere else on your body, it also gives you some protection against HSV-2.

HSV-1 and HSV-2 are totally different virus's (only share 50% of the same DNA), it doesn't matter where they occur, you can also get HSV-2 on your mouth. However there are fewer complications associated with HSV-2, it cannot cause blindness, brain infection and it isn't as risky during child birth compared to HSV-1. HSV-2 is far far milder which means most people that have it never have any symptoms, so most women only find out when they are pregnant or having a smear test, but HSV-2 can show more out breaks in those who suffer symptoms.

Oh I forgot to mention, thanks for the info. Its good to know I wont get it anywhere else, though I haven't been too worried after its already been like 18 years since I've had it lol. Interesting to know that it CAN get to other places though. And yeah, I realize type 2 can be a little more elusive, but I don't think the same thing generally applies to type 1 at least when it is in its most common area, the mouth. Between the intial outbreak, and the obvious recurring cold sores, its not a very secretive virus. I just say this, because I know so many people that have it. We all have the same story, you know?

Its sad about the eye thing, I knew this girl in school who got it in her eye and it just looked terrible. She was so embarassed and it looked really painful. Creepy that it can get to your brain.

Its funny too I remember when I was in high school and while in Health class the teacher asked who in the class had ever had a cold sore, and more than half the class raised their hands. o__o It is insanely common.

 

[Jeremy+3]

Xero, any form of herpes can be passed just through skin to skin contact, it does not have to be a mucus membrane, but even if was exclusively a mucus membrane, then every time you kiss anyone, the moment you lick your lips you are placing the virus upon the outer lip. That is also why you cannot exclude things like HPV by using a condom, it will reduce your chance slightly, but not by much.

Taken from NHS direct
"Even if someone with genital herpes does not have any symptoms, it is possible for them to pass the condition on to a sexual partner."

"Most people with the herpes simplex virus (HSV) do not experience any symptoms of genital herpes when they are first infected and, as a result, they do not know they have the condition."

"As HSV survives within the nerves of your skin, the virus may still be present on your skin after you no longer have any symptoms. This means that there is still a chance you could pass it on to someone else."

We tend to call HSV-1 just HSV or just herpes and then HSV-2 we do call HSV-2. They give you aciclovir here to people with symptoms, it has nasty side effects though.

Herpes can be cute too though!

 

[Xero]

Xero, any form of herpes can be passed just through skin to skin contact, it does not have to be a mucus membrane, but even if was exclusively a mucus membrane, then every time you kiss anyone, the moment you lick your lips you are placing the virus upon the outer lip. That is also why you cannot exclude things like HPV by using a condom, it will reduce your chance slightly, but not by much.

Taken from NHS direct
"Even if someone with genital herpes does not have any symptoms, it is possible for them to pass the condition on to a sexual partner."

"Most people with the herpes simplex virus (HSV) do not experience any symptoms of genital herpes when they are first infected and, as a result, they do not know they have the condition."

"As HSV survives within the nerves of your skin, the virus may still be present on your skin after you no longer have any symptoms. This means that there is still a chance you could pass it on to someone else."

We tend to call HSV-1 just HSV or just herpes and then HSV-2 we do call HSV-2. They give you aciclovir here to people with symptoms, it has nasty side effects though.

Herpes can be cute too though!

I didn't say it couldn't be spread through skin to skin contact, I said it was a lot less likely, which it is. Skin is thicker and more resilient, and a lot less susceptable than mucous membranes. Its possible, but a lot less likely.

Most of the quotes there are about genital herpes, I'm still just talking about oral herpes. Genital herpes to me seems a lot more difficult to to prevent. I also don't know much about the symptoms and outbreaks of genital herpes because even if I knew someone who had it, they wouldn't express that kind of information to me I don't think haha, though I have read plenty. A lot of the info I read about herpes, whenever referring to the genital version, said that some people do not have initial breakouts and also might not notice symptoms right away. But EVENTUALLY, everyone knows if they have it or not.

And you say the moment you lick your lips, you put the virus onto your mouth. That is POSSIBLE, but also very rare. I read a study that says it has been found that people who have recently contracted type 1 can express the virus in saliva without having any active symptoms about 5% of the time. The rest of the time, your saliva is just as safe as anyone else's. Now, I of course don't like that there are ANY numbers at all, but the number is very small and not often at all, the chances of me spitting on someone I don't like at just the right moment are also slim to none haha. And those numbers were for people who recently contracted the virus. Imagine what the number would be for someone who has had the virus for almost 20 years.

I'm definitely not denying that it is possible to spread any kind of herpes even if no symptoms are showing. But I think that in my case (and a lot of oral herpes cases) chances are extremely slim, and that even if someone did contract it, you would eventually know, there is no living your life with the virus and never knowing, and there is no blood test that can verify if it lays dormant in your body.

And this isn't just stuff I've read about either, a lot of this information is all stuff that my doctor told me. I have had serious, in depth conversations with her about this. I'm sure you can imagine how terrible I would feel if I ever gave it to anyone, let alone my own family. I of course asked my doctor "how likely is it for me to give this to someone else? What if I don't have a cold sore? Can I still give it to someone else?" etc... My doctor was actually quite confident about how unlikely (although still possible) it is for me to spread it to anyone without an active cold sore. She gave me a lot of comforting information, but of course still cautioned me to be careful. I'm insanely careful when I have one, but honestly its something that other than one week out of the year I almost never think about and so far other than that time, it has never mattered. How many people do you think I've kissed or shared a drink with that I've known for years that still don't have the virus? I don't have to get into numbers, but that right there should be enough proof that I couldn't just walk around rubbing faces with everyone to give it away.

The picture... was cute. lol. Wrong, but cute.

 

[superman]

thats good she tld u. and i agree with ur choice. if ur not really into her in the first place or whatever, then ehhhh.

 

[Xero]

Here's some statistics on herpes too:

Herpes Statistics

About 80 percent of American adults have oral herpes (cold sores).

You'd be ruling out a loooooooooooot of people if that idea really upsets you.

An estimated 25 percent of American adults have genital herpes.

Kind of a lot of people there too. :S yikes. Still seems avoidable though.

 

[superman]

do stds do anything if left

 

[singledad]

I guess, if I were head over heels for this woman, I may have considered further, but I had doubts from the beginning, and this was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back.

Well, it sounds to me like you saw the end already, and the Herpes was a way to get out? If that is the case them so be it...

 

[stjohnjulie]

I was thinking the same thing as singledad.

I dated someone who had type 2 for years. I can tell you this...he always knew when an outbreak was coming and he just stayed away. I never contracted it from him. I was nuts over this guy, so even though he had type 2, it was not a deal breaker for me! I'm thinking if this girl is responsible enough to tell you about it, then she probably is in 'tune' enough with her body to know when an outbreak is coming on. She sounds like she is very responsible and wants to protect anyone she comes in contact with. I have to give her 'props' for telling you, I'm sure it's not really the thing one wants to bring up on a third date!

 

[sbattisti]

Ugh, this is so frustrating!

It's ironic, because I have this HUGE tendency to totally over-analyze relationships. And from the start of these dates, I could feel myself wanting to do that, and I told myself NOT to, to just enjoy going out on a few dates.

So, now this comes up, and it's back to over-analyzing.

The thing that really scares me the most about HSV, I guess, is the fact that the virus can shed <I>even when there are no symptoms at all</I>. So, she could be great about knowing when an outbreak is about to come, but I could still get HSV from her at some other time. In her case, it would be most likely through, um, oral sex.

It sounds cruel to me, but I'm just not invested enough in this relationship to want to risk that.

Ugh, I feel like such a creep.

 

[superman]

what man....how r you a creep? u totally have the right to be thinkin this...its ur health

 

[NancyM]

Quote: I started seeing a woman recently. Had maybe three dates. We made out a bit, no sex, but was clearly headed in that direction. So, she disclosed to me that she has herpes - HSV-1, to be precise.

I had to make a decision about whether this was a deal-killer or not. HSV-1 is EXTREMELY prevalent. Some estimates say that 70% of the adult U.S. population are carriers. It's basically the virus that causes cold sores. HSV-2 is genital herpes. HSV-1 is extremely contagious, often even through a simple kiss on the cheek, if the virus is "shedding," so it's possible you catch it through a simple kiss on the cheek with Aunt Bess."Unfquote"

I'm reading that you made out BEFORE she disclosed it to you. I'm not sure how honest she was if you two made out before she told you. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something but since HSV-1 is cold sores in the mouth, wouldn't that be dangerous to you if you were making out(I assume you were kissing) and didn't know about it?

It dosen't make her a bad person, I'm sure she wasn't having an outbreak but this shedding thing threw me for a loop because I didn't know that, and if it were me, I would have been freaked out!

 

[sbattisti]

I'm reading that you made out BEFORE she disclosed it to you. I'm not sure how honest she was if you two made out before she told you. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something but since HSV-1 is cold sores in the mouth, wouldn't that be dangerous to you if you were making out(I assume you were kissing) and didn't know about it?

That would be the case if she had oral HSV-1. But she has genital HSV-1, so no risk from kissing (I think, I hope).

It's a misconception that HSV-1 = oral, and HSV-2 = genital. Either one can be in either location. It's just that HSV-1 is most commonly cold sores, and HSV-2 is most commonly genital.

 

[Xero]

Ugh, I feel like such a creep.

You're not a creep! Really, if you didn't feel that "click" in the first place, I don't think it was a big deal that things had to end. You just went on a few dates with her, I hardly think you broke her heart. The only thing I would feel bad about is that she probably experiences that kind of rejection over it pretty often. I could see risking yourself with it over love, but if there was no love involved then no need to risk yourself. You might still feel kind of mean (I would) but you should still always put yourself first and there are plenty of other fish in the sea that don't have this problem.