Higher Education...

[ColeTrickle]

It seems for a kid to get into college when they didn't earn the hope scholarship, the parents have to be poor to be eligible for financial assistance.

My son can't get enough student loans to attend college because my wife and I make too much money but they don't take into consideration that we both have large amounts of college debt ourselves and can't even think about being able to afford to pay for his tuition.

But I guess that's sort of a blessing considering my son is dumber than a sack of hammers. That's no joke either. I know many parents think their kids do no wrong and are the smartest things ever but I'm a realist and make no excuses for his lack of intelligence. Public education didn't prepare him for college (he never had to read or write a single thing in four years of high school) and he doesn't have the intelligence to understand what my wife or I explain to him about how tough college really is. So, now he's crying over not being able to afford college. I tell him he will have to work full time or attend the local technical college where he can get the hope grant to attend for free. It's basically high school any way so he should feel at home there.

 

[IADad]

For thos emissing out on part of the story, the Hope Grants in GA are different from the Hope Scholarship federal tax credits. Basically Georgia residents get money for school if they meet certain criteria (which he apparently did not.)

Seems like work and then back to school part time, might be the best route for him. Some employers, like Target, have excellent employee education assistance programs. Maybe some focus on what he wants to do (or what he doesn't want to do anymore, will motivate him to do what he needs to pass some classes and get an AA/AS.

If you want him to get loans, you could always take out subsidized loans, but it doesn't sound like you're in a position to stick your financial necks out for him like that.

 

[Xero]

Dumber than a sack of hammers...? Um.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

Does he actually know what he wants to study?
Actually -- maybe lucky that you can't afford it. If he isn't academic material, sooner or later he wouldn't be able to pull it of and money would be lost.

 

[ColeTrickle]

The wife is the real pusher when it comes to getting him into College but I think he would be better off going to a tech college since it would be free with the Hope Grant but I guess he'll have to flunk out of College before the wife will go for that idea.

The wife got everything worked out yesterday and at this point he's going to College. She worked out a loan from a family member for the last $700 that the student loans he already has wouldn't cover. I hate she did that but she's the one that is paying it back since it came from her family.

He wants to be a nurse or something in that field but realistically, he's not smart enough and it'll never happen. I know many parents would gasp at the thought of someone saying their kid is dumb but I call it the way I see it especially when it is true (of course you can't say that to the kid). The kid is not book smart, street smart, doesn't have a single bit of common since, and on top of all that is just lazy. He wouldn't have even been registered for College, gone to orientation, or signed up for classes had the wife not done everything for him. He was the stereotypical dumb athlete in high school and is pretty much like you see in the movies, it's really embarrassing.

Now I've talked or tried to talk to the wife about all those concerns about getting him into college and then when he flunks out he'll have to pay back the student loans but she believes going to college will change him. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[akmom]

With a supportive and encouraging parent like that, I'm surprised he isn't motivated or exceptional.

Or maybe he is, and he just has a critical father who is too jaded to see his potential, due to years of his own failures. I mean, if you haven't paid off your student loans by the time your children go to college, something clearly didn't go right. Just calling it like I see it!

My parents didn't pay for my college either, and made too much for me to qualify for need-based grants. I did get a few merit-based scholarships, but they only covered about 25% of the total cost. I earned the rest during the summers and also working 10 hours/week during the school year for last two years. It can be done. Go to an in-state university you can afford, and pay out of pocket. Those who pay for their own education are statistically more likely to finish their degrees.

 

[cybele]

Wow... are you my mother by any chance?

 

[TabascoNatalie]

Depends... sending children to higher education is sort of a fad within middle classes, regardless of their academic ability, just for the sake of assumed higher social status.

At 18 many kids are still pretty imature. Why can't he take a gap year and try something else?

 

[Xero]

With a supportive and encouraging parent like that, I'm surprised he isn't motivated or exceptional.

Or maybe he is, and he just has a critical father who is too jaded to see his potential, due to years of his own failures. I mean, if you haven't paid off your student loans by the time your children go to college, something clearly didn't go right. Just calling it like I see it!

Had both of those thoughts.

 

[cybele]

Depends... sending children to higher education is sort of a fad within middle classes, regardless of their academic ability, just for the sake of assumed higher social status.

I don't think it's so much a fad as the way the world is changing.

When I started out as a florist I did an apprenticeship, but if you want to start out as a florist in Australia now, you need to have a minimum of a cert IV in floristy or you won't get hired, if you want to get into anything higher than your corner florist, you need a diploma, I have gone back to study more times than I can count in order to maintain my job because every few years new minimum requirements come out and in order to stay registered with the various bridal industry bodies that I am a member of I need to get these (often, pointless) qualifications, yes I have also progressed, but it was a progression that used to be possible without any qualifications whatsoever.

Many industries that used to be your 'bottom rank' style jobs now require minimum qualifications.

 

[ColeTrickle]

With a supportive and encouraging parent like that, I'm surprised he isn't motivated or exceptional.

You can be as supportive as possible but there comes a point in time where you see the kid just doesn't have a clue. You can't be more supportive than we have been as parents, more so from the wife but he's just less than average at best. I keep hoping he'll wake up one day and life will finally click but there doesn't seem to be any signs of that yet.

Or maybe he is, and he just has a critical father who is too jaded to see his potential, due to years of his own failures. I mean, if you haven't paid off your student loans by the time your children go to college, something clearly didn't go right. Just calling it like I see it!

Yes, a lot of things didn't go right in my life but I had ambition. I had the drive and determination to better myself where my son lacks any kind of well, anything. I had my son when I was 19 and worked full time as the wife attended college and then graduated college earning three degrees. I then went to college graduating earning two degrees.

Knowing how my life was at his age and knowing that I could do things like fill out paperwork for college, financial aid, and did my own taxes while seeing my son can barely figure out how to fill out a job application just blows my mind. I mean, I had to sit next to him while he completed all his job applications because they were too difficult. It's just sad and I have serious doubts about how he'll succeed in life.

 

[singledad]

Dumber that a sack of nails?

THE wife?

Wow. Aren’t you just the nicest, most caring and supportive family man this site has ever seen!

So your son isn’t academically inclined. First –that does not justify the level of disdain you show for him. You are right – most parents would gasp at what you say here. Not because you are willing to admit that he will never be an academic star, but at the fact that it is obvious from the language you use that you regard him with contempt. Academic ability isn't the only measure of a person's worth.

Now – what is he good at? Why can’t he let that guide his career choice?

 

[TabascoNatalie]

While I agree that some sort of qualification is necessary, it does not have to be an academic degree. what I meant about middle class fad, is just that there are people who can't accept their darling becoming a baker instead of a banker.

Vocational training certainly would be more appropriate for somebody who is not into academics.

 

[akmom]

I'm pretty put-off by the crummy attitude, but I can relate to the situation. My baby brother was like that. He wasn't "dumb as a sack of nails" by any means, but he did have a problem with getting his homework done, filling out applications, or applying for jobs on his own. One of my parents had to sit with him during the entire process or it just wouldn't happen. It's not that he lacked comprehension or ability - he actually scored quite well on tests - but somehow lacked the ability to apply it unsupervised. I can't explain it. My parents and sister and I found it so frustrating.

My mom was like your wife, in that she compensated for it by leaning over his shoulder and making sure he got stuff done that he had to do (like write essays and sign stuff) and she actually did the other stuff for him (like filling out the forms). It's hard to resist. I know I spent plenty of nights staying up late trying to help him get something sent in by the deadline, not understanding why he didn't just do it, when it was as simple as filling out a form. I guess the mentality is, if he just gets past this easy step, then he will have all these opportunities available for him! But the fact is, if he can't be bothered to initiate the easy parts himself (such as submitting an application correctly), then he isn't going to make much use of those "opportunities" either.

My brother dropped out of college twice, at my parents' expense. (Yes, they paid for his college, though not mine or my sister's, because they figured it was the only way he had a chance.) So... I think your wife's desperate attempts to get him into college will turn out just like you expect. If he isn't motivated at the application stage, he certainly won't be motivated to do the assignments.

That said, my brother is gainfully employed and takes pride in his job, and has been promoted twice. He does plan to go back to college and I actually think he will succeed if he does. He just wasn't ready back then. He needed to experience life as an adult, without everyone leaning over his shoulder doing for him whatever he wouldn't do himself.

 

[texasparent]

While I agree that some sort of qualification is necessary, it does not have to be an academic degree. what I meant about middle class fad, is just that there are people who can't accept their darling becoming a baker instead of a banker.

Vocational training certainly would be more appropriate for somebody who is not into academics.

Agree! My husband has been passionate about flying since he was a small boy. After high school, he wanted to pursue this and his Father had the same attitude this Dad has and it really discouraged him. At this age, kids need to be supported by their parents. Point out his good attributes and help him enroll in a vocational school focusing on his interests. If he can excel there, it may give him the courage to tackle college. If not, he has the training necessary to keep him gainfully employed.

 

[ColeTrickle]

I'm pretty put-off by the crummy attitude, but I can relate to the situation. My baby brother was like that. He wasn't "dumb as a sack of nails" by any means, but he did have a problem with getting his homework done, filling out applications, or applying for jobs on his own. One of my parents had to sit with him during the entire process or it just wouldn't happen. It's not that he lacked comprehension or ability - he actually scored quite well on tests - but somehow lacked the ability to apply it unsupervised. I can't explain it. My parents and sister and I found it so frustrating.

My mom was like your wife, in that she compensated for it by leaning over his shoulder and making sure he got stuff done that he had to do (like write essays and sign stuff) and she actually did the other stuff for him (like filling out the forms). It's hard to resist. I know I spent plenty of nights staying up late trying to help him get something sent in by the deadline, not understanding why he didn't just do it, when it was as simple as filling out a form. I guess the mentality is, if he just gets past this easy step, then he will have all these opportunities available for him! But the fact is, if he can't be bothered to initiate the easy parts himself (such as submitting an application correctly), then he isn't going to make much use of those "opportunities" either.

My brother dropped out of college twice, at my parents' expense. (Yes, they paid for his college, though not mine or my sister's, because they figured it was the only way he had a chance.) So... I think your wife's desperate attempts to get him into college will turn out just like you expect. If he isn't motivated at the application stage, he certainly won't be motivated to do the assignments.

That said, my brother is gainfully employed and takes pride in his job, and has been promoted twice. He does plan to go back to college and I actually think he will succeed if he does. He just wasn't ready back then. He needed to experience life as an adult, without everyone leaning over his shoulder doing for him whatever he wouldn't do himself.

Yes, I do have a crummy attitude about how my son is, he's been this way ever since he was able to do things on his own. At times, it's like he's still 5yrs old. Although my attitude about him seems terrible, I'm not acting this way toward him, I'm only venting my frustration here.

You seem to know exactly what I'm dealing with because this is exactly how my son is. In addition to this he seems to do anything and everything half-assed no matter how simple something may be.

Now that he's about to start college, it's only a matter of time before we see if he'll sink or swim.

 

[singledad]

What is he good at?

 

[IADad]

AKMom, very interesting perspective. I'll apply your example to my son. My eldest is a smart kid and his skill is memorization, so it's frustrating when he does less than his potential because he failed to read directions fully, or failed to check his work, or missed seeing an entire set of questions, or put off doing something because he thought he had less to do. So, in short he has some tendencies to not approach the work of study very well. So, I've resisted riding rough-shod over him, making it my responsibility to see that his work gets done properly. I know he can do it because when it's a project he initiates himself he can be almost tenacious getting it accomplished. So, we try to get him to do the things he can do to hold himself accountable. Remind him to review and schedule, to make lists - he's phenominal with a list, he just doesn't often think of making his own list. I can forsee this kid doing great things, or being incredibly average and it seems all I can think of to do is to try to point him to ways to do things better himself. Then I get flack from a grandparent for "not letting him just be a kid." Sometimes it's tough to know what to do and what not to do.

To the OP - okay, I get your venting here, I'll trust you're the most supportive dad when you deal with him. So, you said he wants to be a nurse or some such. What about him getting a job somewhere in a hospital - NA's are often hired with minimal training or experience, cleaning staff, central sterilization (that's personally a scary story, that they actually hire people with simply high school diplomas and no particular certification to sterilize surgical instruments - so the only thing between me and a scalpel with a booger on it is their own sense of cleanliness, a few hours training, and already thin oversight.) but I digress. The point is to get him into the environment so maybe he can see what's available, see what he likes and doesn't like. You said he was a jock - what about being a trainer or a PT aide? Is there a sports medicine facility nearby?

If he's not going to be a "good student " anyway, then working some while he studies isn't a big deal, it may bven help him focus. I know I was more organized and disciplined when I worked while stufying than when I was just a student. Face it study doesn't take that many hours out of the day, it really doesn't.