Incompetent Teachers – whos teaching your children ?...

[Shari Nielsen]

I agree that a LOT of teachers aren't up to par, especially a lot of the young ones. Unfortunately, the teacher training programs teach a lot of "perfect world" stuff and not practical stuff that the teachers actually need. As a result, they are in shock when they get out into the real classroom and on their own.

The Praxis tests are the tests which most states accept in order to grant certification. (It's interesting to see which states have the higher minimum scores needed to pass and which have the lowest standards!) Anyway, these tests don't evaluate how a teacher performs in the classroom, just that they know the content. So...teachers study the content for the test and may pass, but that doesn't translate into quality teaching.

Newer teachers need to be given an opportunity to try their hand in the classroom, get some experience, and be mentored by a quality, experienced teacher throughout the process. These teachers need to spend time in the classrooms of great teachers to get ideas and learn what works and what doesn't then take these ideas back to their own classroom and try them out.

Unfortunately, most school systems don't provide newer teachers w/ this opportunity and just show the teacher their room and wish them luck. As a result, many flounder, do a sub-par job w/ the kids, and are frustrated w/ the entire profession. Its such a shame that the kids are the ones that suffer the most from this!

 

[musicmom]

I've only had great teachers so I can't complain. When we go to functions and we see teachers out they are out of school and they are laid back and relaxed.
My children's teachers and I communicate through email and they type fast like me and there are often mistakes. No big deal. I respect all teachers. Kudo's to all of them.

 

[hwnorth]

musicmom - I was of the understanding that you taught.

 

[musicmom]

musicmom - I was of the understanding that you taught.

That has nothing to do with your post. I'm not feeding into your troll behavior.

 

[hwnorth]

That has nothing to do with your post. I'm not feeding into your troll behavior.

Put your paranoia away for a minute will ya.

This is a thread about an actual factual situation thats happening in the school system. I therefore would, and was, hoping, that persons that taught would also add their input (and some already have), since we arent the teachers, nor the ones that take the training.

One would hope that a legitimate debate could be had here, as well as the possibility of even slightly assisting in being able to come up with changes to assist our children.

Im sorry that you feel that Ive pulled out something with such huge media and political attention and effects children nationally... just to bait you. Interesting mindset, to say the least.

I would deduct that by the factual posts Ive made, feedback Ive gotten in the short amount of time Ive been here, that troll doesn't exactly fit me ..

 

[musicmom]

huh?

 

[hwnorth]

.. I asked for an educated opinion on the matter ... sorry ... my mistake

cheers

 

[fallon]

end the personal attacks now please

 

[NiallNai]

I'm a school psychologist and I've only been working in the field of education for three years now. Before that, I worked in the behavioral healthcare field. My wife is a high school librarian. She has a dual bachelors in education and history and an masters of library and information science. She has worked in education for about 10 years.

Looking at it as an outsider (and in some ways I still consider myself an outsider because I don't think I'm in that deep yet), I think there are a number of things about the education that impact teacher effectiveness.

1. Some teachers are hired and then given a class schedule that doesn't necessarily match their qualifications. There was a recent instance where a teacher qualified to teach computer assisted drafting had been given a schedule to teach general computer classes for the last nine years. Or non special education teachers that are assigned to teach classes consisting of all special education students. That sort of thing is the fault of the district and may be due to a number of things, such as the district not wanting to pay the money for the qualified person or just a short in a particular specialty, which happens alot with science and math instructors. That last part leads to my next point.

2. Many science and math instructors are obtained from industry, meaning that they have degrees in their specialty but have never had any sort of formal training in pedagogy or education. At least in New Jersey, they are referred to as alternate route teachers. They've entered the education system and now have to obtain addition training in education to become fully certified. It's interesting to note that there seems to be heirarchy among teachers and I've seen alot of traditional route teachers look down on alternate route teachers. I've also seen some amazing alternate route people. Two doors down from my office in school is probably one of the best teachers in the school and he came from industry. Teaching seems to be somewhere between an art and a skill. You can certainly learn a lot of the principles regarding teaching others but actually applying them is different.

3. This is the big one for me and I'll probably come under fire from other teachers because of it. I see tenure as the bastion of mediocrity. I worked in behavioral healthcare for 10 years before entering education. I did not have a union and there was no such thing as tenure. The last company that I worked for (for 7 years no less) had an "employment at will" policy, meaning that at any point they could decide to let me go. Not once did I ever fear for my job. I've seen and heard about a lot of teachers that have been using the same lesson plans since they got tenure 10-20 years ago. That is appalling to me. I've seen inclass support teachers just sitting on their rump for the entire 40 minute period, never once getting up to help a student and there is nothing that can be done about. Perhaps if their pay increase was attached to their performance they might do something. Perhaps if it didn't take 2+ years to fire a poor, ineffective, tenured teacher, there would be fewer of them.

4. Standardized testing is killing the imagination of education. When you teach to the test, your kid may be able to answer the tests on the questions but little else. Students aren't learning to think and apply their intellect. They aren't being taught to reason. They aren't being taught the meta-skills that can be applied in any area of study. They are being taught to answer a particular set or type of questions. As a school psychologist, I've started to wonder if being taught to take a test is impacting overall ability. Some of the general information questions that I ask which anyone from my generation would be able to answer just stop my students dead. Really basic things.

That is my opinion on the ineffectiveness of teachers and education.

 

[Mindy]

I don't mean to be condescending, but I am curious exactly what you think a masters in history qualifies you for? Some museum job, which is far and few between beyond entry level - and not a whole lot else. My son's former step mother has a masters in English - and works as a high school teacher. From what I get, she HATES it. HATES, HATES, HATES. But there aren't all that many jobs for somebody in that field, unless they are in a big city and able to get some editing/publishing job...

And like I said, HE loved it. If she hates being a teacher, then she's going to suck as a teacher. There's the difference right there.


I don't necessarily think the most educated is the most qualified. "Knowing it all" isn't the way to inspire kids to learn. It's a passion for finding out more, finding interesting ways to present it. You can have the most intelligent, gifted, knowledgable invididual in the world. If they can't connect with the kids and teach on their level, it doesn't mean a thing

Yeah, he was all of those things and so much more... Do you think us kids all loved him just cuz he had a Master's and he was super boring?

This guy used to sing old songs with us... He wore a kilt to school sometimes and he taught us how to march. He was amazing. Every single kid passed their History exam cuz he made you WANT to learn.

 

[Trina]

Former teacher here. Before kids I earned a BS ED, majoring in Elementary Education, and taught for ten years (PreK, Kindergarten and Gr. 3). LOVED it, but gave it up to become a SAHM when pregnant with my first child. I taught in private schools, and didn't make anywhere near $40K. ROFL! I wish!

Yes, there definitely are some bad teachers out there, but PLEASE don't forget all the GOOD ones!! Perhaps I'm feeling defensive, but they tend to get forgotten, and I find that very, very sad.

I'm an active school volunteer, and thus far have been impressed with all the teachers and what I have witnessed within our schools.

 

[HappyMomma]

Yes, there definitely are some bad teachers out there, but PLEASE don't forget all the GOOD ones!! Perhaps I'm feeling defensive, but they tend to get forgotten, and I find that very, very sad.

I so agree with you. I remember having some really wonderful teachers that opened my eyes and taught their subject so well. But I remember some real duds too.

Isn't this true in just about any profession, though?

 

[hwnorth]

Trina - Although Im in a different country to where this issue is forefront, I do agree that passion plays a role in teaching.... but the fact still remains over the the quality and qualifications of teachers of today, in the USA ...

Good to hear from teachers on this either way though

 

[musicmom]

Trina - Although Im in a different country to where this issue is forefront, I do agree that passion plays a role in teaching.... but the fact still remains over the the quality and qualifications of teachers of today, in the USA ...

Good to hear from teachers on this either way though

 

[Trina]

Trina - Although Im in a different country to where this issue is forefront, I do agree that passion plays a role in teaching.... but the fact still remains over the the quality and qualifications of teachers of today, in the USA ...

Good to hear from teachers on this either way though

I had always wanted to be a SAHM, so I thought nothing of giving up teaching to be home with my kids, but I also gave it up because I didn't feel it was possible for me to be the kind of teacher AND the kind of mother I wanted to be at the same time. As a teacher I spent a lot of time planning and preparing. I had to pay for all my workshops, seminars and classes, which were required to stay certified, out of my own pocket. DH used to laugh at the time I spent out of class preparing, especially considering my salary, which was considerably less than his.

My current state is pretty strict concerning teachers and their qualifications. For example, if I wanted to return to a certified teaching position now, it would take some work, on top of being required to earn a Masters degree.

 

[hwnorth]

These two astound me

- <SIZE size="100">John Corcoran. In his 1994 book, The Teacher Who Couldn't Read, he said he was a high school teacher for over 20 years even though he was illiterate until he was 48.

- </SIZE><SIZE size="100">The New York Post, among others, has given prime examples of writings by Brooklyn teachers. One teacher, concerned about one of her second graders, wrote, "How comes his past teachers have been passing him from grade to grade without he advancing or progressing academicly. I would like to know what is causing the mental blockage."</SIZE>

 

[Trina]

Trina - Although Im in a different country to where this issue is forefront, I do agree that passion plays a role in teaching.... but the fact still remains over the the quality and qualifications of teachers of today, in the USA ...

I assure you, there are poor teachers in Canada as well. As HappyMomma pointed out, every profession has it's share of bad apples, no matter what country.

 

[HappyMomma]

I assure you, there are poor teachers in Canada as well. As HappyMomma pointed out, every profession has it's share of bad apples, no matter what country.

I think doctors and lawyers are good example of this. They are also in very important positions that can hold peoples lives in the balance.

 

[Ari2]

One of my cousins used to be an assistant professor of molecular biology at a major state university. He mainly ran a giant lab that worked on developing cancer drugs. Unfortunately, his entire sub-department was axed and so he lost his job (he was up for tenure the next year).

After a year or so, he started teaching science in inner-city Chicago. He loves it and from all reports he is a wonderful teacher. He undoubtedly is qualified to teach in his area - he has a Ph.D. in hard science and was an instructor at Harvard for a few years before transfering. But I'm sure that would mean nothing if he did not approach his job with enthusiasm and creativity.

I wish I had had him in high school. Our science teachers ranged from bad to terrible and a few weren't exactly the sharpest pencils in the pack. (This was balanced out by our English teachers, who were extremely bright, demanding, and highly effective. &lt;-- Added so I don't seem to be bashing teachers. )

 

[hwnorth]

I assure you, there are poor teachers in Canada as well. As HappyMomma pointed out, every profession has it's share of bad apples, no matter what country.

I agree ..its that way in every Country and every Profession... but the numbers are higher in the USA.. I think in researching this it would be found that the facts are largely correct.



<I>"... In most industrialized countries of Western Europe and Japan, high school students must pass one or more difficult, highly competitive examinations to be granted entrance to the university system. These exams are much more rigorous than anything American students must pass, and they determine at a quite young age whether a student has the intellectual skills necessary for college entrance. In the United States, on the other hand, many state-funded universities have open admissions policies, which basically means that if you have a high school diploma you can be admitted to the university."

" In the U.S., only about half of the students who enter four-year colleges earn a degree within six years."

<SIZE size="100">"On the same weekend delegates to a state teachers convention were rhapsodizing about "high academic and performance standards," a Pittsburgh Post-Gazette article was noting a comment by Richard Mitchell, author of Underground Grammarian, and a former English teacher at a New Jersey teachers college. He recalled the final exam in an education course gave 52% of the grade for being able to "Draw all the letters of the alphabet, both upper and lower case."

</SIZE><SIZE size="100">"The Washington Post cited another study which found at least one of every five public school teachers has neither a major nor a minor in the subject they are teaching, another NCLB requirement.. Another Shanker comment was that at least 25% of teachers are not qualified to be in the classroom." </SIZE></I>