Issues With Wife, and Extended Family...

[mr.mom]

I originally posted this in the Intro section, but re posted this in a more relevant forum. I also added a little.

I guess I will start with some background. I have been parenting my stepson "Billy" for over 4 years now. There have been ups and downs as with every parent/child relationship. He does have some behavior issues which I have been primarily dealing with. His mother works almost 60 hours a week which leaves me with the child duties. I enjoy being a full time parent, but sometimes things can get difficult between my wife and myself. We sometimes have different opinions on how to handle him, but it never really effects us long term. These last couple of days has been very difficult, because I feel like things have changed. Our son goes to my wife's fathers house on Saturdays, and he is a real pain in the butt. He completely idolizes Billy, and obsesses over him. Even if Billy hasn't been behaving, and my wife or myself tells her dad to restrict is vist (no tv, or take out dinners), he doesn't listen. There was an instance about a month ago where I picked Billy up from his grandpas, and asked him how the day was, and what they had for dinner. To make a long story short, he lied about the dinner, and said that the grandpa told him to do so. I talked to the grandpa about it, and said that Billy couldn't stay there all day. He pleaded with me and promised it wouldn't happen again. I am going to shorten this situation, and if details are needed as the topic progresses, I will add them. Fast forward to last weekend. It had come out by Billy that he had eaten fast food for lunch with the grandpa two weeks in a row when he shouldn't have. I was very upset by this and had said that he shouldn't go over there, because the gpa had no regard for my wife or myself, and was making Billy lie and feel guilty. My wife had agreed, and said that when her mom moves out here in July that Billy could resume his visits. I agreed, because I know her mom will keep the gpa in line. On Friday the gpa called me to say hi and get info on the weekend. I figured my wife had talked to him earlier in the week, and would have told him the situation. She did not, she left it to me. I told him what we had heard, and he immediately got defensive, and denied it. Then he had said that they did go to the fast food place, but he had only gotten a smoothie. That in itself wasn't allowed, but I told the gpa that I would talk to Billy again, and see if maybe he had been mistaken. When I asked Billy, he said that he got a smoothie, and a burger. I had him call his gpa, and the gpa just continued to deny, and get upset. So that was how I left it. The gpa then called my wife frantically at work. She talked to him later and then another time, and he guilted her into feeling bad for him, and making him to be the victim. He had said that I was mean to him, and hurt his feelings. He told her that "he couldn't eat or sleep" because he wasn't going to get to see Billy. She never asked Billy his side, nor did she ask for mine. She sided with her dad, and had no regard for anything else. We discussed it briefly yesterday, and she changed her position, and said he should be able to go over there. I wanted to disagree, and I guess the inevitability would have been to fight about it. Instead I caved and said "he's your son, and if that's what you want then fine". Since then I feel a loss of respect for my wife, and a strong disliking for her dad. Her mom will be here in a month to live, and she is already butting in, and taking positions. Since my wife works, I'm the one who is going to have to deal with them. They are going to be living together, and I can guarantee that they aren't going to get along. The worst part is that Billy is in the middle of all of this, and I really don't know how to make him feel ok about all of this.

 

[mr.mom]

bump?

 

[mom2many]

Hold on mr. mom, we're a small board and it sometimes takes time, especially with summer coming up on us. We also have quite a few dads on this board....I think they out number the woman even so it has nothing to do with your sex.


Okay so now on to your issue and I am afraid you may not like what I have to say. IMO grandparents are not parents. While I see that you are looking for consistency in consequences. That is not the time or the place. As for food, unless there is a allergy or something, a once a week eat out is not going to hurt anything (I don't understand your reasoning here).

Can grandpa even cook? I mean I don't know many men in their later years that can beyond a few basic things. If it is a huge problem send a home cooked meal where all they have to do is heat and eat. I hate to see parents and grandparents used as punishment. Mine can be grounded and still go out with grandma cause time is limited with them. They are getting old and one day won't be here, plus I plenty of other days to be a hard ass.

 

[mr.mom]

Sorry if I seemed angry I wasn't. There had been many views of this topic, but no responses.

We do go out with the gpa most Sundays which is one reason why we don't want him going out if he was bad.

It wasn't the meal in itself that was the problem. It was the fact that we told him not to, and he did it anyway after promising to me that he wouldn't do it anymore. Plus the fact that he had our son lie to us.

 

[Mom2all]

I agree that you have to be patient for responses. Many people view who are not members and don't post.


My feelings are along with mom2many. Grandparents are a different breed altogether. I wouldn't like him telling him to lie.. but I think back on my own Papa. He'd sneak us to the store to get M&Ms when we shouldn't have eat chocolate. My Dad once grounded me from going to my best friends next door and her from my house which devastated me. So my Papa built us a see-saw. One side of it in each yard so we didn't break Dad's rule, but still got to play together. He snook us candy in church, let me drive at 10 on dirt roads, and let us stay up way too late when we stayed the night. I'm not sure what my Dad thought about it then, but when I caught him sneaking my baby girl suckers when I told him no sugar anything, I thought back on Papa and smiled. One day a week won't damage your boy. Grandparents earn the right to be cool and kids love the memories. I know I did. I buried my Grandma today. All of my cousins sat there talking about the unbelievable amount of cookies we stole from the cookie jar. Unless its harmful, don't place restrictions and then they'll be no reason to lie about anything.

 

[akmom]

What happens at grandpa's, stays at grandpa's. Everyone knows that!

 

[Crazylife2231]

I completely understand your feelings on this, mr.mom....step-parenting is such a challenge and often thankless, and we want the best for all our kids. I do have to agree with the other replies here. Grandparents are supposed to spoil their grandchildren, and perhaps the reason he lied about it (which he should not have!) was because he felt awkward about it, etc, etc.
We all want some "justice" when kids misbehave, but always remember, any consequence is supposed to serve <I>only</I> to correct behaviour. Once Billy misbehaves, assign a consequence, then it's done. I'm sure you practise this already, but even the best parents need reminding sometimes when behaviour is frustrating)
I wouldn't continue to make a big deal of this, especially with your wife. Deal with discipline issues at home, and never use a relationship as a consequence (ie: you're not going to spend time with grandpa today because you've been bad). In any step-parenting situation, children's behaviour is going to be atrocious at times and us step-parents get to deal with it with little reward at the time. That reward will come later if we keep on the right track!
Best of luck with this - I know it's so hard to back down on an issue, but it's the best way here. Not a battle worth waging!

 

[mr.mom]

I think what bothers me the most is how my wife agreed with me, but then left it for me to deal with. The gpa could have been an adult, and waited a month, but he acted like a child and had to get his way. Which then made my wife change her mind. The thing is is that Billy is very smart and he knows how to take advantage of gpa. Which then has an impact when he comes home and doesn't get his way. You see, there are many facets to this situation. My wife and I gave gpa this direction for a specific reason and he went against it on purpose.

 

[Mom2all]

Compromise is paramount in a relationship. Your wife should not have to choose between her husbands wishes and her fathers unless it absolutely necessary. I feel for her. I don't know how close the relationship is between her and her parents, or you and yours, but my love understands I stand behind him 100% but I also stand behind my Dad. I've never been asked to chose and for that I am grateful. Try to understand the hard position she's in.

I think most of us feel that Grandparents are given a little extra breathing room. Especially if your lucky enough that they are there and want to spend time with their Grand-babies. Punishing your child at home is enough to teach him a lesson. Letting him have special time with Grandpa once a week won't make him a monster, (even if they have a happy meal). I'd compromise... NO MORE lies, but stop the restrictions when he's with Pop.

 

[mr.mom]

So a grandparent shouldn't honor a parents request? Plus grandparents are supposed to spoil a child when they don't see them very often. Not every week. My wife and I have seen the fallout of that before. Am I supposed to let it happen when it comes to my daughter? What are the lines between step and birth? I don't look at him like a step.

 

[Crazylife2231]

Oh, I more than understand about complicated situations that are very difficult to fully lay out in writing...
All in all, you and your wife have to be on the same page and rather than "go the roungs" on this issue, I would use this as a learning curve for future situations.
Rather than thinking of his actions as intentional towards you, he most likely just thought you were making too big of a deal about it. Remember, the reason we ask for help in these forums is that outsiders don't have emotional investments in the situation and can sometimes see things with more clarity. And also remember, kids this age are not evil, planning geniuses (although they seem to be at times!) - they simply react and go with what works. No matter what environment Billy spends time in, he will act differently at home - home is his comfortable place, the place he can "let it all out".
If theres anything to take from this, is that there is going to be a great deal of battles ahead of you as Billy gets older - give this one up as solidarity between the influential adults in his life is far more powerful than the spoiling from Grandpa)

 

[Crazylife2231]

As a parent of a teenager, the best advice I can give is to learn to let things go - it can be so easy to dig in our heels, especially when our parenting decisions are questioned, but just consider this...in 10 years, will this even matter in the big picture)

 

[akmom]

I think you are going to be disappointed if you expect a child to enforce his own punishments, especially if you blow a gasket when he is honest about having failed to do so. He is, after all, the reason you even know about it, right? I also think going around interrogating each person and pressuring them to tell on each other is not a recipe for peace and harmony. It sounds a little like you are making a mountain out of a molehill, and it's prompting a vicious cycle of frustration because no one else sees it that way.

I don't know what he initially did wrong, but I kind of agree with Crazylife that there should be a specific consequence for a specific infraction. Being generally grounded from all "fun" because of generally bad behavior is so vague that it's unlikely to prompt change. He's only 9. The prospect of pleasing Dad is a multifaceted endeavor that requires a lot of self-discipline. It's going to be a lot easier to just circumvent you.

I had a childhood friend who was always grounded, for everything in general. Bad grades? No friends over until next report card. It's kind of hard to elicit good grades that way, because it requires her to be diligent for months before any hope of reward, and in the end it is still a crapshoot. One year, she finally did bring home good grades, but she stayed grounded because of random other things. Ultimately, she just gave up. Kids aren't perfect and you shouldn't keep them perpetually grounded for that. Be careful your punishments aren't based on your mood, or the fact that he might irritate you at this age. Specific expectations are a lot easier to attain.

 

[mr.mom]

You also have to realize that this man is a huge pain in the butt. His name is usually followed by that very statement. "That Harvey is such a pain in the butt". The rest of his family avoids him, and he has followed my wife wherever she has gone for the last 15 years. He won't let her live her own life, and interferes whenever possible. He's not your typical innocent grandpa.

 

[mr.mom]

I think you are going to be disappointed if you expect a child to enforce his own punishments, especially if you blow a gasket when he is honest about having failed to do so. He is, after all, the reason you even know about it, right? I also think going around interrogating each person and pressuring them to tell on each other is not a recipe for peace and harmony. It sounds a little like you are making a mountain out of a molehill, and it's prompting a vicious cycle of frustration because no one else sees it that way.

I don't know what he initially did wrong, but I kind of agree with Crazylife that there should be a specific consequence for a specific infraction. Being generally grounded from all "fun" because of generally bad behavior is so vague that it's unlikely to prompt change. He's only 9. The prospect of pleasing Dad is a multifaceted endeavor that requires a lot of self-discipline. It's going to be a lot easier to just circumvent you.

I had a childhood friend who was always grounded, for everything in general. Bad grades? No friends over until next report card. It's kind of hard to elicit good grades that way, because it requires her to be diligent for months before any hope of reward, and in the end it is still a crapshoot. One year, she finally did bring home good grades, but she stayed grounded because of random other things. Ultimately, she just gave up. Kids aren't perfect and you shouldn't keep them perpetually grounded for that. Be careful your punishments aren't based on your mood, or the fact that he might irritate you at this age. Specific expectations are a lot easier to attain.

His punishments are directly related with his behavior he demonstrated during the week. If he was bad everyday at school, then he wasn't allowed certain privileges at grandpas. If he was good during the week then he would have those privileges. The weekend was really the only time we could enforce punishment because between homework and other things there wasn't any time to punish him.

He was having issues in class being distracting, getting in other students faces, getting up from his seat, talking back, not listening, making random noises in his seat, touching other students.

These are all things that a teacher could handle when I was in school. Nowadays teachers are handcuffed, and have to accept it. It is up to the student to control himself. I don't agree with this policy, but I'm guessing this is just how things are now.

I didin't expect Billy to enforce his own punishment, which is why I am so mad at gpa. He knows that he shouldn't give these things to Billy but he does anyway to get Billys approval. In my opinion when you are taking care of someone else's kids, and they ask something of you, you honor that. They are trusting you with their child.

 

[mr.mom]

I also don't know how I am supposed to handle my wife's parents. She tells me one thing which I then have to tell her father. After he freaks out and guilts my wife she gives him his way. I feel like he is a third child. She kinda laid me out to dry with this, and now her dad and I are in a bad place. When I initially talked to him about it, I was very calm and told him what the situation was. He freaked out on me, and decided to start calling everyone telling them how I was mean to him, and how I hurt his feelings, and that he can't live unless he sees Billy. Then my wife calls me a jerk because of what her father told her. Her mom then calls later (they are divorced but on good terms) and asks for details about what happened. I really don't feel like its her business, and that any issues he and I have should stay between us. That's how I was raised though.

 

[mr.mom]

Also I hope you all don't think that my responses have angry undertones. It's difficult to transmit the emotion when typing. I am just trying to sort this out in a discussion. I really appreciate all the feedback.

 

[Crazylife2231]

Yes, for sure he should honour it, I guess I'm just pointing out that this is a battle that you're not going to win. Grandpa has obviously been a "pain in the butt" for a very long time and you're not going to change that - you're going to have to find a way to work with that.
As a teacher, I would encourage you to let school issues be school issues. In no way does a conscionable teacher let a child "get away" with their behaviour. Children's behaviour nowadays is difficult to deal with and does not go away overnight, especially with the teen years creeping up. Make no mistake, he DOES have consequences at school and when you "double-punish" him, it does nothing to address the behaviour. Your best bet is to try and partner with the school and address his behaviour a small chunk at a time. If he is having many difficulties, try not to set the bar too high here - saying he has to behave all week is a big challenge if he is getting in trouble 5 times a day. Come up with a plan with the teacher that you can support at home, but don't punish him again. As adults, if we get in trouble at work, would we like it if we got in trouble at home, too?
Discipline with our kids is designed to change and correct their behaviour, and I have a sneaking suspicion that you may be "over-punishing". Kids need to feel successful, ESPECIALLY the ones that have trouble with self-control. Try and set him up for small successes with his behaviour instead of goals that may be too high.
AND, I would like to point out that I am preaching to myself here as well - I don't have an easy time following my own words with my 14-year old daughter either:O)

 

[Crazylife2231]

Stay out of the wife-father relationship! Their history has many layers of emotion/dysfunction that you can't possibly influence so just throw your hands up and leave it alone. Set yourself up for success here too!!! )

 

[mr.mom]

We did have a reward system at home if he was good. At school all he did was miss recess which if anything made him more hyper. The dicipline at school didn't have any affect on his behavior and the teacher suggested that we take steps at home. He isn't going to that school next year, so hopefully his behavior will improve. We didn't expect him to be perfect, just tolerable, and respectful of others. Is that too much to ask? You have to understand too that this child is waaay above average intelligence. He knows how to manipulate and lie like a pro. I have been working with him diligently to try to help him. If he doesn't change his ways soon it could have a horrible affect on his future. When his school record says that he has all these issues teachers won't give him a fair chance. We've already seen it happen to him.