Legal Question...

[K_Stepmom2b]

My fiance and the BM are jumping into a pretty big court battle to come.

Does anyone know if its possible and in the right to bring up the amount of time that the mother takes off of work (for no reasons) to show levels of being responsible vs. lack thereof?

Example: The mother takes off weeks (sometimes two) at a time, just because she wants to. Basically, if she was my employee and all the time she takes off of work, she would be unemployed and get a horrible recommendation (haha). I'd say the amount of time she takes off is an average of a week a month. (maybe more)

I mean, we're looking at it as its a ploy to take away time where usually we would have my SD. From our point of view - it shows that her responsilbilty levels suffer greatly, in which it could potentially show my SD a horrible work ethic. (She asks me why I always go to work, when we have her on weekdays) Along with the fact that she uses my fiance as childcare.

Does anyone know if this can be brought up in a child custody case?

Thank you in advance for any advice!

 

[Jeremy+3]

Er, how can a parent be used as childcare?

 

[Mom2all]

As long as she supports her child, the amount of time she actually spends at work I wouldn't think would matter. If I could make what I make in 44 hours in 20 hours.. I'd work less too.

 

[Mom2all]

Er, how can a parent be used as childcare?

Agree

 

[K_Stepmom2b]

Childcare comment:

The mother doesn't look to the father as being a father. She doesn't share any co-parenting with him and as hard as he tries to co-parent - it's just not there.

She made the comment once about him babysitting the child. (And from that, I believe that stuck with him)

Thats also another problem, she has problems supporting the child, I believe that her parents help out a lot, along with the fact that in the house that she currently lives in - she's had several roommates (none to be a good influence or responsilble by any means) come and go. And now, with the court case - (AND I'M SURE) her lawyer costing her a whole lotta money- she will end up moving back to her parents.

 

[K_Stepmom2b]

(This is just my observance of the whole situation) The fact that the mother is taking two weeks off of work while the child has spring break, which eliminates the Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays that the father would take care of her.

 

[Mom2all]

Not trying to play devils advocate.. but I am taking the whole week off during my kids spring break also. I like the time to catch up with the things I've missed out on while they are in school and mine are all teenagers.
So that to me is not a reason to bash her in itself. Tell Dad to tell the Mom he still wants his alloted time. There are other things I would be more concerned about than her time off from work unless the child is suffering because she doesn't have basic needs met.

 

[K_Stepmom2b]

I think that's great that you are taking off the time to spend with your children.

However with our situation its different.

The "game" that the BM in my situation is playing, is not her wanting to spend more time with her daughter, b/c if that was the case, she wouldn't have her daughter spend the night at her grandparents 3 times a week every week. The "game" is to make it so that the father does not get any additional time with his daughter. We know the game she's playing b/c of the responses to declarations and to the mediation.

None of the court case has anything to do with the well-being of the child from the mothers argument whereas thats all the case is from the fathers side.
Its a blatant attack on the father and on me (thats a whole other story, but its not important to this thread). The mother wants no additional time to be spent with the father and in fact wants less time.

The Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays are after school pick-ups so the mother doesn't have to spend the extra money on putting her in after-school daycare until she gets off work. It wasn't anything that was mandated in any agreement, but more of a "I would love to spend more time with my daughter, instead of putting her in day-care, how about I pick her up from school" (which was a discussion when all was peachy keen and discussed prior to any court stuff and right when the school year started) Before the BM agreed, she asked her parents if they could take her those days and when they said "no, we have her 3 days over night a week, we're not the parents, you are" the BM gave in and let him pick up my SD from school on those days.

The amount of time that the mother takes off of work is astonishing and in our eyes just horrible work ethic. I'm sure we all have those "I don't wanna go into work today" days, but she has them all the time, and I mean... ALL the time. A week here and a week there for vacation is great, and I think important sometimes... however when you take a week off every month - I think thats a bit too much. However, thats just my and my fiances opinion.

 

[Mom2all]

She very well may be. I don't know her situation at all. I'm just saying that if I were the judge what I would be looking for is... are her basic needs met... is she getting an education... is she happy... is she bonded... is her living situation safe... is she in a safe child care environment.... those type things. Having money, ( a good job), doesn't make a person a better parent. So if I were you, when I went to court I would address those things. Neglect and abuse are important in the court... so is who the primary caretaker has been her whole life.

I'm not saying she should stay with her Mom. Not at all. But just a warning at what someone else might see.

Has she always been a good Mom? .... if not why did it take 6 years for you to try to get custody.

Does she have enough money to live comfortably?... How much child support have you given and how long?

She leaves her daughter with her Mom/ Dad and her father each week?... So she is trying to keep the daughter with family instead of strangers.

For everything you say, she'll have a different version. Stick with the important things.

 

[K_Stepmom2b]

To dive into an off this exact topic for this whole court case for more clarity and understanding as to why I ask this stuff:

The court order states there is first refusal, in which the case comes where the mother cannot have the child for a night, the father is the first to be called for that. Along with the fact that if the child spends the night anywhere he is to be notified. That doesn't/hasn't been happening on a weekly occurance when the child is not sleeping at her mothers.
The mother has violated the court order on numerous occasions. And told the child to not tell daddy.

There are photos which we found from facebook pages and myspace pages of parties involving copious amounts of alcohol and also drug usage in a house where a child lives, a lot of the time stamps are from dates that the child SHOULD be in the house. Even going as far back as when the child was a baby, that show the child at a party where there are smoking, drugs and alcohol present of an asthmatic child.

The parents do not have a child support agreement in tact. For the longest time the father gave money, but he stopped that once he found out that the mother was spending it elsewhere (not on child) instead of paying for her pre-school which it was intended to go. If it boils down to financials, the father would be getting child support from the mother, instead of the other way around.
The mother is grasping for whatever she can. She has no case in any means. She states that the child is acting out and having behavioral problems in school b/c of me - not according to her report card and the parent/teacher conferences. Says that b/c of the relationship with me and the father that the daughter doesn't like spending time with us and puts up a fit when mentioning it. While that can be an act, the look of hurt when the father told her that he couldn't pick her up after school is obvious that she likes spending the time with us.
The custody case was first established when the father was getting his degree out of the city, which was planned and on-going before the child was born or conceived. The custody changed when he moved back, and now since theres been obvious violations, and more of a case built -the father decided to take the mother back to court.
The mother seems to be the only person in a house of 4 people that has a job. She has a revolving door of roommates and their girlfriends and boyfriends who come through the house, they have a zoo of animals and she has a free loading boyfriend. Theres times where she's let it slip that she cant pay her electricity bill, theres times when there is no hot water, theres been mention of moving back home with her parents. So I don't consider that really living comfortably.

The mother will have a different version, yes. But what has been said so far in responses that are accounted for for this case, has been attacking me and has nothing to do with the child. Whereas - the fathers case is solely about the living environment, the education, the wellness of the child as well as having more fathers rights. The mothers is Jealously. The fathers is about his daughter.

I was just initially wondering if her work ethic and the fact that she takes off so much time from work is something we can bring up in court as part of the mothers character.

 

[Mom2all]

<r>According to the laws in your state....<br/>
<br/>
<B><s></s>The law on deciding custody and visitation<e></e></B><br/>
The law says that judges must give custody according to what is in the “best interest of the child.”<br/>
To decide what is best for a child, the court will consider:<br/>

&lt;LIST&gt;&lt;s&gt;<LIST>

• <LI>&lt;/s&gt;
  &lt;LI&gt;&lt;s&gt;</LI><LI>
• &lt;/s&gt;The age of the child,&lt;/LI&gt;
  &lt;LI&gt;&lt;s&gt;</LI><LI>
• &lt;/s&gt;The health of the child,&lt;/LI&gt;
  &lt;LI&gt;&lt;s&gt;</LI><LI>
• &lt;/s&gt;The emotional ties between the parents and the child,&lt;/LI&gt;
  &lt;LI&gt;&lt;s&gt;</LI><LI>
• &lt;/s&gt;The ability of the parents to care for the child,&lt;/LI&gt;
  &lt;LI&gt;&lt;s&gt;</LI><LI>
• &lt;/s&gt;Any history of family violence or substance abuse, and&lt;/LI&gt;
  &lt;LI&gt;&lt;s&gt;</LI><LI>
• &lt;/s&gt;The child’s ties to school, home, and his or her community.&lt;/LI&gt;
  &lt;e&gt;</LI>

</LIST>&lt;/e&gt;&lt;/LIST&gt;
The only reason I suggest to look at the important things is because most of the time.. the other stuff doesn't count. When I went to court with my oldest 2 father, he tried the same tactics. He had been off at college living it up for 5 years while I struggled to survive with them. He didn't give child support ether because he didn't approve of what I spent it on. He only visited when it was convenient for him but not when they needed him. 6 years later.. he tried to say I was a bad Mom because I was poor and building my life off of limited means, was dating again, and he could&lt;B&gt;&lt;s&gt;&lt;/s&gt; now&lt;e&gt;&lt;/e&gt;&lt;/B&gt; give them a better life. They literally told him what I spent my money on was none of his business. They were healthy, happy and loved. AND he&lt;B&gt;&lt;s&gt;&lt;/s&gt; would &lt;e&gt;&lt;/e&gt;&lt;/B&gt;be paying child support or go to jail. He paid a lot more than what I ever asked him for too. Me being there.. raising them everyday for 6 years meant more than what he could do now that he'd grown up and landed a better job. &lt;br/&gt;
&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;U&gt;&lt;s&gt;<U>&lt;/s&gt;Her partying and drug use around the child.... thats what I would be concerned about. &lt;e&gt;</U>&lt;/e&gt;&lt;/U&gt;&lt;/r&gt;

 

[K_Stepmom2b]

I think our situations while is similar, there is a lot of differences. It sounds that you are a dedicated, and a strong parent and have gone through a lot, however the father in your situation is the exact opposite here.

I think all in all, the court will rule in our favor, due to violations, perjury, and evidence. This is a father fighting for more father rights, he's got a fathers right attorney who is rocking the battle and helping the fight! If the situation was reversed then the mother would be fighting for the same thing guaranteed. She is trying to make it so the father sees less of his daughter. IMO, She's trying to create "daddy issues" within her daughter.
The child support was never a factor, as it never existed. The father would be happy to pay money for child support, especially if he knew that it went to the well being of the child. Luckily, he knows people who can't keep a secret and previously found out what the money he did previously give while the child was in pre-school was used for. Money is not a problem, however he would like to see it be put to something other than partying.

While the father was up finishing up his degree (I wish he "lived it up to the fullest", he gets jealous of my college experience when i mention any of it) - he begged and pleaded for the mother to visit or for more frequent visiting time with his child and she refused. (the relationship wasn't a long standing relationship in the first place, the only reason why it became a relationship is because she got pregnant a month after they met during his summer break before his last year) But every point that he could, he could come and visit her. He made the attempts, he tried to make it work in the best interest of the child. Then he found out the mother was cheating on him and that was that.

School - well thats a whole other topic. But would you rather your child go to a higher rated and tested school or would you have the child go to a much lower rated and tested school just because its by a home of a parent?

 

[Mom2all]

I wish you the best. I'm not saying that anything you've said isn't valid. Just pointing out what the courts look for. It'll be the big stuff, not geography, not work ethics, ( unless it causes harm to the child), not which school, but that she goes... BUt good luck to you. I wish you well.

 

[parentastic]

The court will only care about her work ethic if it can put her job in jeopardy. If her job allows her to take one fourth if her time off without consequence (other than financial) then she could argue that this time allows her quality moments with her child.
Whether or not this is true is difficult to prove.

So, no, i don't think you can use this in court, unless you can prove she might lose her job because of it.

However, what i get here is the lack of cooperation in a joint custody with the father. So you could ask the court for a family psychological evaluation, if you are willing to pay for it, and argue that you want to demonstrate to the court her unwillingness to cooperate for the benefit of the child.

 

[K_Stepmom2b]

@MOM2ALL: Thank you, for your advice, it means a great deal.

 

[K_Stepmom2b]

However, what i get here is the lack of cooperation in a joint custody with the father. So you could ask the court for a family psychological evaluation, if you are willing to pay for it, and argue that you want to demonstrate to the court her unwillingness to cooperate for the benefit of the child.

Would that have to involve the child? We are trying very hard to keep all these matters between the adults and to not have the child partake in any of this since her age is so young and we wouldn't want to cause any added stress. Now that's our side, we are unsure what the BM does on her side - if she follows what a mediator had said about keeping all talk and documents out of SD's vicinity.

 

[parentastic]

Would that have to involve the child? We are trying very hard to keep all these matters between the adults and to not have the child partake in any of this since her age is so young and we wouldn't want to cause any added stress. Now that's our side, we are unsure what the BM does on her side - if she follows what a mediator had said about keeping all talk and documents out of SD's vicinity.

You would have to check this with your lawyer... I am not sure.
I think it does, because such a psychological assessment usually involves evaluating both child-mother and child-father dyad, but the child does not need to know why. As far as she knows, it will look like playing and talking with mom and a stranger, and then doing it again with dad and a stranger.
If you ask for a psych assessment, you must be ready to be assessed too.

A family-law specialized lawyer would probably know what it entails.

 

[K_Stepmom2b]

Thank you for your help!

 

[Testing]

Er, how can a parent be used as childcare?

Yeah, confused on that too. He's the DAD, right? So he isn't "childcare". Unless I misread the whole thing.

Frankly, I think this is between the father and the mother of the child to work out their own arrangements with their child.

You are just scenery here as the girlfriend of a man with a child. Sorry. You call her the "BM". Does that mean "birth mother", as in she donated the egg for this child or gave her up for adoption or something, which is how that term is typically used? Or maybe BM means something else (her initials or something)? If she is his wife/former wife and the mother of his child, it seems demeaning to call her the BM, as she has legal standing in this case and you do not.

As to your legal question, unless the father can demonstrate that the Mom's time off work is detrimental to the child in some way to the point that custody issues should be reviewed, I don't see how it is an issue. It really isn't anyone else's business what kind of employee she is. And yes, any psychological evaluations will drag the child through the mess and also be expensive. Not to be used for minor quibbles.

ETA: I just saw that you charge the mother with drug use and the use of alcohol. Alcohol is legal and unless she's driving the child drunk, it isn't an issue. The mention of "drug use" was vague. What? Marijuana? The father would need proof. Not speculation/hearsay.

This is between them. They should work it out together, instead of pay attorneys to work it out for them. If you came into the picture while they were still married (and I'm not asking), you are unrealistic to expect that she is going to work with you at all, and it would be best if you remove yourself from the situation.

 

[K_Stepmom2b]

Yeah, confused on that too. He's the DAD, right? So he isn't "childcare". Unless I misread the whole thing.

Frankly, I think this is between the father and the mother of the child to work out their own arrangements with their child.

You are just scenery here as the girlfriend of a man with a child. Sorry. You call her the "BM". Does that mean "birth mother", as in she donated the egg for this child or gave her up for adoption or something, which is how that term is typically used? Or maybe BM means something else (her initials or something)? If she is his wife/former wife and the mother of his child, it seems demeaning to call her the BM, as she has legal standing in this case and you do not.

As to your legal question, unless the father can demonstrate that the Mom's time off work is detrimental to the child in some way to the point that custody issues should be reviewed, I don't see how it is an issue. It really isn't anyone else's business what kind of employee she is. And yes, any psychological evaluations will drag the child through the mess and also be expensive. Not to be used for minor quibbles.

ETA: I just saw that you charge the mother with drug use and the use of alcohol. Alcohol is legal and unless she's driving the child drunk, it isn't an issue. The mention of "drug use" was vague. What? Marijuana? The father would need proof. Not speculation/hearsay.

This is between them. They should work it out together, instead of pay attorneys to work it out for them. If you came into the picture while they were still married (and I'm not asking), you are unrealistic to expect that she is going to work with you at all, and it would be best if you remove yourself from the situation.

IMHO, all of what you said can be just you wanting to hear yourself talk. None of it means anything and you have no idea what you are talking about, if you would have read any of this thread you would see that.

While I shouldn't have to respond, I feel the need to as you need a reality check. Are you even a parent? A step-parent? Anything? If you are a parent, then I apologize but there's no information on your profile eluding to that and while I make an assumption, its granted.


#1 - There was never any sort of marriage between the two. They dated, the father tried, the mother cheated on him, end of story, since then there's been conflict off and on.

#2 - Scenery? I'm more than scenery. I am the fiance, meaning I will be the step-mother to this child in a few short months and love and care for the child even if the child is my own. Also meaning that I will also be in the child's life, and someone to help support my SD whenever she will need it. While I will just be a step-parent - I won't view it as so as I view it as I will be a parent, her and I have worked hard on our relationship, so I am earning the title AND WILL TAKE PRIDE IN IT!
While I am not involved directly in the F2F situations in the court proceedings - due to the fact the case is about the Child's well-being... the BM (and yes, I will call her that b/c thats what she is.. a BIRTH MOTHER its better than using initials or actually saying the name and its nicer than any of the other names that I privately call her) is having wild parties with a house full of alcohol (while yes, legal- but not a healthy environment for a child, otherwise bars would have different age limitations and YES drugs on a school night while the child is supposed to be in the house - I don't understand how one can see that as smart and a good environment for someone who is so easily influenced to everything and everyone around them And there is proof, there is a lot of proof.
Even though the case is about the BM and the father, MY FIANCE, my soon to be husband - the BM has brought me into the case, while that's expected of someone who has no case, someone who is reaching for whatever she can - I have become a part of the case whether I like it or not. So since my character has been attacked, I have every right to be apart of this, while I will not physically be in court, I am 100% involved as I care about my SD and I have her well-being in mind.

#3 The father is treated by the mother that he is seen by her as "childcare" thats the perception of the father due to the mothers behavior in the past and the present. If you would have actually read this thread you would have seen this explained better.

#4 In reference to the legal question, its just a simple question. I was wondering if it was something that can be brought up in court as a judge of character. As our characters have been personally attacked. I would hope that the lack of work ethic that the BM shows does not rub off in the child in any way.

Sometimes people are on opposite ends of a spectrum where they cannot come to a conclusion without the help of an attorney. Sometimes peoples heads are so far up their (insert bad word here), that they cannot see that someone is wanting to have a part in his/her childs life and upbringing, whereas a parent is trying to make that not happen, and are trying to make it so the other parent has as little time as possible. IMHO, it would be money well spent if it prevented further problem within the childs life. If the child had equal time with the father as the mother- I think that would immensely help with them growing up.


All in all, while in the courts this is between the father and the BM. I will NOT remove myself from the situation as I am more than "SCENERY" I am apart of this family whether the BM likes it or not. I am apart of this child's life whether the BM likes it or not. I will not be going anywhere, and I will be here to stay as I have been. I would fight for this child to have an amazing upbringing and life if I was legally able to, I would put no limitations of what the future may hold for the child. I would never refuse rights of a parent, and I would fight for a parent to get equal rights if he/she so deserves.


To the moderators: If I have crossed any lines here, I apologize. But I needed the person to see that they are in the wrong. While, sure every bit of advice is greatly appreciated, the above response was unwarranted. And not appreciated.