Little boys and fights...

NancyM

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Jul 2, 2010
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My son is older now, but when he was younger he loved to play fight, boxing, wrestling, Karate, I remember trying to explain the importance of not hitting other kids, and not hitting first, or hitting girls. I was just teaching him general rules. I'm not talking about defending himself.

Now, my son was not aggressive at all, as a matter of fact he was the opposite. Other kids usually shoved him out of the way to get on a ride first, or pushed him in general if they wanted something he had, I was kind of alarmed to see how aggressive other kids were.

When he entered pre-K one boy who was much larger use to hit him and push him around. Max was getting frustrated of course but was also a little afraid of this this big slug. I told my son, that when he feels ready and not so afraid, and that day will come, that he's allowed to hit this kid back, I suggested that he hit the kid hard enough to make him fall down. (sounds terrible now but it's something my dad taught us) Well that day came and Max took the bully down and it all ended there.

Since I was with him most of the time, I tended to lean toward the peaceful remedy. I told him to use his words, and try to walk away when he can, but I was never sure if that was the right thing to say. How can I tell my 4/5 yr old to fight a bigger kid, or hit a big kid back especially when I knew he was afraid.

My husband use to tell me that a boy has to fight back because that's just the rule of survival and that all through a boys growing life some other guy is going to challeng him. I cringed to think that my son may get beat up or someone is always trying to hurt him. But my husband said he will learn when to fight and when to run!!! OMG

Maybe you guys can tell us stories about being boys,lol what the heck to 4/5 6 yr old boys think about anyway?? lol
'
My question is, what did you teach your boys about fighting? How about if someone hit him first, or if a girl hit him first.

Does anyone have the same problem with girls? Has anyone's girl been hit by a boy or has hit a boy first? What was the outcome?


Just thought this might be interesting .
 

somebody

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Dec 20, 2010
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I oh so effectively convinced my son that hitting was never the answer... Then we were at a family bbq with a distant family member. Another kid his age was beating him with a metal chain. He and I had role played all the possible things he could do. And he did them all. This kid (girl) was the worst bully I have ever seen. By the time I got there, my son was near hysterics.

My later advice after calm was restored... Hitting is not for frustration or to get your way. But you have the absolute right to defend yourself. If you find yourself in the position to defend yourself, hit hard, hit fast and knock the kid all the way to the floor so they stay there. If I were being attacked by someone with a metal chain, that is what I would do. I would put them down and make sure they stayed down.

Not sure why you would tell him not to hit a girl in particular.

Side story, the kid was such a bully, she was used to intimidating grown ups. She was not going to submit to giving over the chain. Her challenge? I am going to go get my mother. I was like... yah bring it. Go get your mother.

Sheesh.
 

NancyM

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ooooh that was really quite violent. I agree in a time of self defense it's fine to hit back either sex. If the girl was a bully I wonder what her mom was?

When I told him not to hit girls, I was more afraid he would act out one of his karate stunts on one of the girls, which I'm sure he would hurt if he did so, and the parents would surly become irate as I would.

Besides the girls in his classes were smaller than him, and I also didn't want him to think it was ok to hit girls in general.
 

TabascoNatalie

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Jun 1, 2009
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In general I agree with NancyM. We all wish that all kids play nicely and don't fight, but sometimes you have to fight back.
Sometimes there are situations and people who only understand the physical force. Sad for them, but can't let them walk all over you.

As for girls and smaller kids -- well, sometimes this gets difficult to put it right. Actually, with my son there hasn't been an issue of actual fighting with girls, but i know that girls can be extremely nasty and violent as well. Smaller kids -- how scary it may sound, but if the kid is big enough to cause you physical pain -- its ok to fight back. I don't mean toddlers, but 2-3 years younger than himself.
 

Jake72

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Dec 18, 2010
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I always tried to teach my kids to walk away and not hit back, and as they got older told them if they are getting beat up and can't get away they can fight back. I never told my son never hit a girl because I didn't want him thinking twice when he needed to fight back. Quite honestly I think it is perfectly acceptable to hit a girl in some situations, the same situations where it would be okay to hit a guy. Such as when the person is beating the crap out of you and you can't get away.

I read a story not too long ago that happened up in Atlanta where a teenage girl slapped a teenage guy at a party, and the guy said "I'm not allowed to hit girls, so I'm going to hit the next guy that walks by" and then him and his three buddies beat the next guy who walked by... to death. I know that is a very extreme outcome to this situation, but it did happen.

My daughter punched a boy in the face when she was 7. The little boy didn't hit back. She said the boy had been picking on her for quite some time and kept pulling her hair, and she tried to tell us but we didn't listen. None of us recall ever hearing of this boy picking on her, so she was punished for starting a fight. The school let her off with a warning and I think the teacher gave her a frowny face for the day. (The worst imaginable thing for her at the time)
 

Xero

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Mar 20, 2008
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I will always teach Eli that he can only hit someone in defense. I don't want him picking fights and I would like him to use every possible coping skill with any kid that he is having a disagreement with, including walking away, but if said kid hits him for any reason, he will be allowed to hit back. I always want him to be confident in the fact that he can defend himself, and he never has to take any kind of physical abuse from anyone. Of course, it will always depend on the specific individual situation, but that is the general rule.

As for girls, I usually just tell him that girls don't like to rough house and mommy doesn't like to play fight. His dad play fights with him ALL the time, wrestles him around and throws him on the bed and pretty much everything lol. Eli will hit him and beat him up and fight back, and they both just love it haha. He would never attempt any of this on me, because he knows it is a "guy" thing, or at least a daddy thing. He has tried a couple of times, and I always told him "No, mommy doesn't like that, girls don't like to play that way, you need to be nice and gentle to girls". I'm just hoping that's enough to help him understand in the long run haha.

somebody - that little girl sounds horrible!!! If I were there, I would have snatched that chain right out of her hands and TOLD her to get her mother. :mad: haha
 

singledad

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Oct 26, 2009
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I think its really important that kids know that they are allowed to defend themselves, even if the person they need to defend themselves against is a girl. To me the rule is <U>don't start a fight</U>, and first resort should be to walk away.

When I was a kid in school, it was very much a survival of the fittest thing - the boys who didn't hit back were the ones who got bullied. Through all this a pecking order was established, and good or bad, it certainly was very useful preparation for real life. After all - the bullies don't magically disappear when you graduated from high school, they just stop beating you up.

Perhaps it's not the healthiest way to learn to assert yourself, but what can you do, other than submit and be bullied, or stand up and fight back?
 

stjohnjulie

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Aug 9, 2010
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Man! This is a tricky one. I don't know how it is in other parts of the world, but there is a HUGE anti bullying thing going on in the US schools. They are taking this very seriously and are dishing out some pretty severe consequences. It's hard to tell when things have gone too far. In my sons school, then tend to kick you out and ask questions later. And with kids, sometimes the details are a long time coming. You might have a kid who hits someone but then you find out that there is a string of other events that led up to it. So who is at fault? Who gets expelled? Usually it is only the kid who did the hitting even thought it might be obvious that he was taunted for quite some time before he actually took a swing.

Even though I would want my son to defend himself if he was getting beat up, I have to take the approach that he can't hit anyone, ever, for any reason. He has a temper anyhow, but it's mostly just a verbal blow out of some sort. He can yell or say nasty things, but he would rarely put his hands on anyone. I know he's pushed kids before, but I also know it's because the other kids know he has a temper and "accidentally" smack him in the face when playing a game. I've seen this happen before...but my son is ALWAYS the one who gets in trouble. It's because of his temper and he has the reputation. Not for hitting, but for having a short fuse. There is one kid in particular who especially enjoys pushing his buttons. He is really sneaky too. Not that long ago, this kid was at our house and I was in and out of the house while they were inside playing. Well, the kid didn't realize I was inside and I got a real eye opener when he opened his mouth. The thing is, my son thinks this kid is his friend. He said the most rotten stuff to my son and I can't believe my son even wants to be around this kid. Once the kid realized I was in the house, it was a different story. He shaped up real quick.

So I guess the position I feel like I'm forced to take is, No hitting, ever. I tell him to walk away and try to avoid any potential conflict. But I don't feel so good about it.
 

NancyM

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Jul 2, 2010
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When Max was little, like I said, he had a kind nature, I was mostly concerned about upsetting his nature, but I too always agreed that he should defend himself if necessary.
and I always stressed that if he felt he was being threatened he was also allowed to use what ever fighting tactics necessary including the ones I told him he could never use..for example

Biting, scratching, kicking, poking in eyes, crotch kicks and punches, all the dirty fighting stuff was allowed when trying to save himself, or to get away from a bad situation. At the same time I was worried about making him afraid of everyone. (Today Max is into Mixed Marshal Arts, and still loves to learn to fight and he's a big kid. )

I asked him what he remembers about all that stuff we told him, he says he was always on guard, and slightly paranoid, but he wasn't really ready to fight (I'm talking elementary school) so I'll never know if what we told him was really any help or not! lol Oh boy!!
 

mom2many

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Jul 3, 2008
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I agree, never start it and when you do, end it. Girls are not to be hit, but if you need to defend yourself do so, make sure you stop when your point has been made. It isn't a pissing contest so use some common sense.
 

sbattisti

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Jun 14, 2010
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singledad said:
To me the rule is <U>don't start a fight</U>, and first resort should be to walk away.
I agree with this.

When I was a kid in school, it was very much a survival of the fittest thing - the boys who didn't hit back were the ones who got bullied.
This was a little different from my experience. Somehow I got through my whole life without a fight, but I seem to be the exception, not the norm.

I do feel strongly that fighting back should only be encouraged if you fear for your safety. A hard concept to instill, I guess. But I just don't want to encourage the idea that as soon as someone hits you, all bets are off. Hitting someone back rarely solves the problem, and often escalates it.

On top of that, as we all know from sports, it's often the SECOND guy who gets punished. ;)

Good luck!

~s
 

Xero

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You know, its funny because I think it depends on the kid. My mom had the same rule for us (don't ever hit anybody, but you can hit back to defend yourself) and even though we knew that, we were never in a fight. None of us ever ended up using that permission. So I guess all rules could really be edited depending on the individual kid, too.
 

superman

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Aug 23, 2010
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well i just made a topic about james kinda similar to this. when he was little you know how some kids get mad when they take each others toys. me and his mom always told him that hitting kids wasnt gonna give him his way on the occasion that it did happen. now when recently i was told that he is being rough with other boys, we've discouraged that. taking advantage of ppl who dont wanna fight back isnt cool at all... but when hes older i think if hes gonna fight he should do it for a good reason not cus he wants to show how tough he is....done that enough times that i know it never turns out good. hitting girls is obviously not encouraged. i do plan on sharing my experience/s wit him, which will be good for him to see first hand the outcomes of some of my choices
 

singledad

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sbattisti said:
This was a little different from my experience. Somehow I got through my whole life without a fight, but I seem to be the exception, not the norm.

I do feel strongly that fighting back should only be encouraged if you fear for your safety. A hard concept to instill, I guess. But I just don't want to encourage the idea that as soon as someone hits you, all bets are off. Hitting someone back rarely solves the problem, and often escalates it.

On top of that, as we all know from sports, it's often the SECOND guy who gets punished. ;)

Good luck!

~s
Maybe I should qualify - the school I was in was in a fairly rough neighbourhood, and very few people (that includes children, parents and teachers) were ultimately civilised :rolleyes:. I'm hoping that the school my daughter will go to is a friendlier place, because I actually agree with you. I got in a lot of fights, and today I realise that what you say is true - it never solves anything, it only escalates it.

Unfortunately, staying calm and dealing with a problem in a civilised manner, takes a certain level of maturity, and so I think there will always be kids who fight, if only because they are too immature to know better.

LOL - and I know in sports the second guy gets punished and it ticks me off! You often see it in rugby - one guy will be harassing an opponent, jerking him around by his shirt etc, and as soon as the victim shoves the guy away or throws a punch, he gets yellow-carded. So essentially, they're condoning harassing the opponent, because the opponent isn't allowed to defend himself. The same goes with punishing a kid who stands up against a bully - in essence, they're condoning the bully's behaviour, because the school rules takes away the victim's power to stand up for himself.

I know the idea is for the victim to ask for help from the teacher, but really - we all know that will only get him labelled as a cry-baby or a tattle-tale, and so paint an even bigger target on his back. :(
 

NancyM

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You know, once kids enter school, they're not really your own anymore. They have all these new rules to abide by, and are interacting with all types of children including those they never encountered at the local playground.

It can be tough, some kids are plain ol' mean, and I know my son was a little confused by that.
We have to watch our kids try to fit the best they can.

I was somewhat saddened by the anger and aggressiveness I saw in many other children once Max began school .
His dad and I had to change from the no hit policy to only hit back if someone hits you first. It really can be very confusing to a child.
 

SavCat

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Dec 31, 2010
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The trick for kids in protecting themselves seems to me to be in the willingness to defend one's self mixed with a general lack of concern for what other kids think. It's when a kid hits another kid merely for pride or to bully that things go wrong. But if there is a bully, he or she needs to know the other kid is not afraid or the bullying will continue or get worse. Pride gets involved when a kid is defending him or herself merely because he or she cares too much what the other kid thinks. We need to teach our kids to be really concerned only with the views of adults and those who are clearly friends, and to take what other kids think with a grain of salt. If bullies don't get a reaction from those they bully, they typically go away (ignoring often looks like one is truly bothered, so it's not the same as not caring). The kids who get teased and bullied the most care too much about what other kids think. Boys do have to be willing to hit when nothing else works, but usually all they have to do is not care about the bullies opinion.