My 14 yr old is driving me CRAZY!!!...

[revolution]

<FONT font="Times New Roman">I really do not know where else to post this and I do not want to waste your time by writing alot of nonsensical issues. So, I will make this as short but to the point as possible. My 14 yr old son has always had challenges in life. He was diagnosed at the early age of 5 as having ADD, ADHD, Terretes, OCD, and recently Depression. We had him on Ritalin for most of younger life (at least while I was in the Army.) He had the IEP with his school and was seeing a Psychologist. However, all the Doctors kept telling us what we already knew, that he seemed like a wonderful child and could not imagine him doing or saying the things the teachers are saying he said. See this all started with him getting suspended from 5 different schools before he was 10 yrs old. He would be suspended for "making terrorist threats" against other students. Saying this such as I would like to put a paper bag over your head and watch you suffocate to death! WTF? No matter how much we tried to support and love him while letting him know that this was unacceptable, he would always lie and say that he never said it or the teacher "has it out for him" Even though there would be numerous witnesses admitting that he said or did it. Again this went on all before he was 10 years old. Once I got out of the Army, we settled outside Atlanta, Ga. and my wife and I hoped that maybe me being home more would give him a bit more stability. However, with getting out of the Army meant that my family also lost medical benefits until I started working again. It was during this time that we noticed the ANGER and hostility towards others increase at an alarming rate. We decided we needed to do something fast so we borrowed money from my in-laws to get him back to the dr and psychiatrist. Again they all told us he was fine and we didn't notice a difference between him off and on the meds. I do apologize for this being so long but I will start to wrap it up as I think you all can see the path that I am on with this. Finally it escalated last year as he told someone at his school that he was going to bring a gun to school and kill everyone. He swears to this day that he never said it but either way he was expelled for the remainder of the year and home-schooled by the county. He somehow aqcuired a myspace account (at his grandparents) and as soon as I found it, I gained access to it and noticed that he was living this "fantasy" life of gangs, drugs and death! I read most of his messages to others speaking of him being in a gang and killing people just too see what it would be like :O! Needless to say my wife and I were completely shocked!! We discussed it with him and again he denied ever typing it. I honestly believe that he has gone so far in this "fantasy" world that he can no longer tell real from fake. Shortly after I cancelled his myspace account and put parental software and user restrictions on all computers, he started cutting. He was hiding it well for a long time and it went unnoticed as my wife was working 60 hour weeks and I was working three jobs 7 days a week to try to make ends meet with all his Dr. bills and meds. I also noticed that while we were spending all our time dealing with him, my daughter and other child were acting out because we weren't able to give them the attention they deserved! So we took him to an outpatient mental health program where again all the Drs say he is a wonderful kid and they don't see any of the issues!! How could this be? Well we got him in a high school this year and that is part of the reason that I have become a stay at home father. We are now having to file bankruptcy and my poor wife has to work a full time job and three part time jobs for us to survive but one of has to be here. He has forced his Grandmother back to work because they have gone broke spending money for Dr. Bills and meds and special teachers, and counselors all for him to pull the wool over there eyes and go right back to what he was doing before. I thought all was getting better (although I know we will always deal with all of this a bit), until last week when he got into a fight at school and told the other kid that he was going to get a knife and cut his eyes out! So here we go again. The cutting has started again and now, my daughter told me this morning that she has been waking up in the middle of the night with my son just standing over here staring at her. I am actually scared that his fascination with death(as expressed in his words) and his constant ?s about death and the notes and drawings that we have found in his room recently, that he will act on it and actually hurt someone. I want to help him so bad but he refuses to talk to us, and again when we take him to counselors or psychologists they tell us he doesn't belong there and they discharge him. I really do not know what too do anymore other then from now on my daughter will be sleeping in the room with me or I will start staying up all night and sleeping all day! Please I am open to ANY advice you all could give me. I did a google search and assure you all that I am not here to "Troll" or start anything with anyone, I am a very nervous parent who wants to help his child before I loose him to the law or some other way ...

Sorry this was so long .... should have cut some down but no one else can give us advice

 

[Dadu2004]

Wow.

Well, let's begin with the counselors. Have you gone in there with any proof of what he has been saying and doing? This child has to be VERY good at lying to fool a large number of counselors and pshycologists...those people are trained to see through lies. Have they seen the cuts? Have they seen the MySpace page? Can you get any proof to take to them?

It's obvious that this boy is going to need someone around him 24 hours a day before he hurts someone or hurts himself. Keep a VERY close eye on him. Do what you can to get your point across to someone and get him some serious help before it's too late.

 

[revolution]

Yes to every counselor that we have been to we have taken sworn statements and his school records showing the acts and proving what has been said. They have also seen his cuts. But after a few days they say that they cant see the boy everyone is talking about. That was has us so concerned. And now with my daughter too scared to sleep in her bed because she wakes up to him standing over her, has got my wife and I worried sick. I am around him non-stop with the exception of the night but I think I am going to have to be there to watch him then as well. It is very stressful and has almost caused my wife and I to divorce a few times. We are at ends and so our our in-laws. ( then again they just say "that's just Spencer") But its not at times he can be the most loving person on earth and then an instant later have a dark, menacing attitude and out of the blue start growling and hissing (literally)....as far as the Myspace page I cancelled it as soon as I found it and have not let him back on since then.... but I had given them printouts of some of the messages where he talks about being beaten into a gang.... and breaking his leg in a "gang fight" and going to funeral after funeral all summer long .... he has never broken his leg and the only funeral he has ever gone to was family members very sad I love the boy so much but he just seems to be loosing himself to some fake world that he doesn't belong in and I fear if something is not done fast we will loose him FOREVER!

 

[Dadu2004]

I'm not sure what kind of counselors you're taking him to, but I would take him somewhere away from where you've tried to go. Go to a proven mental facility specializing in children and young adults. Obviously if a counselor or psychologist is sitting there looking at sworn statements, cuts on the boy, and family testimony and they're still ignoring it, then they're not doing their job. Go to different places until someone takes you seriously.

 

[revolution]

Well we have been to two mental health hospitals and both released him after one week of a two week program saying "he is a normal 14 yr old boy and I think with continued meds, he will do just fine." THen they prescribe him Adderol and up the dose higher then what he had and send him on his way. Not to mention they find a way to blame it on us as parents. But thats a different issue. We have seen 5 different pyschologists who have either said (after normally one or two sessions) that he 1) will not talk to them and they cant help him any more or 2) they just dont see any problems other then the ADHD, ADD, etc. But those cant be causing all the problems can they? Surely there is some deeper rooted issues that are leading to his fascination with death and suicide and anger, etc,etc. We are constantly looking for new places to go but most of the pyschologists here are either not accepting new patients or are wanting 100s of $$ up front which now after in-laws spent $1000s we no longer have access to that financial help.

 

[Dadu2004]

It definately seems to me that there are much deeper rooted issues here than ADHD. Do you think that he might be on drugs?

 

[revolution]

The thought has definately crossed my mind and we have had him tested before I guess its time to do it again though. BLAH!! Being a parent is hard lol.....

 

[Dadu2004]

Definately test him again...stay persistant with the counselors until someone listens. He obviously needs some major help.

 

[revolution]

I will and thank you for your advise. Now he is home so I must go spend time with him and try to see if I cannot delve into his mind a bit more! Thanks again and will keep this post up to date as I figure out more...

 

[Dadu2004]

Definately keep us update...I'll be praying for your son and your family.

 

[Dadu2004]

How did lastnight go for you bud? Anything good or bad happen?

 

[Nikita]

This one is definitely a doozy. I agree with Dadu, it seems quite odd that no Doctor is seeing what you are seeing or willing to see the truth from the evidence. I wish you luck and I hope all goes well.

 

[Xero]

Wow that is a really hard one. Keep him under constant supervision. If it were me, bye bye computer. I'd be all over his friends and who they are, where he's going what he's doing. As for the cutting, I can tell you some things from experience. I don't like to talk about it, but I feel bad you're going through this, so I'll tell you I had a problem with that when I was younger. My mom did these things. Put the knives in the drawer and get a lock for it. Keep shavers in your room locked somewhere and get them out if you need them then put them back away, don't just toss them. SEARCH his whole room, take EVERYTHING that looks like it even might be sharp, and get rid of it. Don't give him access to anything he could cut himself with. I knew a girl once that cut herself with a pencil by pulling out the eraser and flattening the metal part.

Another thing, make it a big deal. Check him everyday. Tell him you really care about him and you have to make sure he's not hurting himself, even if he doesn't like it, though you're sorry you have to do it this way. He brought it upon himself. If he didn't cut, you wouldn't do this. Make him take all but his underwear off (you're his dad it's ok) so you can see his whole body, every day, to make sure there's nothing new. The MINUTE you see a new scratch, cut, mark, anything, call 911, make it a big deal. Have them cart him off to the hospital saying he's hurting himself and needs help. They'll put him the mental/behavioral unit. I know it seems like that place doesn't help, but he'll get tired of going every time he cuts himself. I know, trust me. I know how this works.

This is so hard, and I'm so sorry. If you want to talk anymore in depth, feel free to PM me because I've been through this personally, but from his point of view instead of yours. Not on the school problems and gang/drug/violence stuff though, however I would still totally talk to you about any of that because I knew people like that and I have a little brother his age who is having tons of his problems, he reminds me of him actually. My mom doesn't know what to do with him.

Anyway, also certainly get him tested soon, if not all the time. Try to protect him, it's your job and it sucks. Good luck with it all either way.

 

[Xero]

Oh and also I was going to say something else too, about him going in his sisters room. My Aunt had a daughter like that, she would always come out of her room at night and either go downstairs and get into things, take knives from the kitchen and hide them under her bed (she was younger, like 5 or 6, but had problems, she was a foster child she had), or she would stand over her older son's bed and stare at him saying nothing.

What she did was she got a little alarm and it sticks on the bedroom door, and the minute you open the door the alarm goes off and everyone in the house knows you're out and about. So he wouldn't be able to open his door without waking everyone up to let them know he's up to something. Don't let him harass your family. Don't be scared of him, keep him in check.

 

[Cthru]

I'm sorry you are going through this.
I am having horrible problems with my 15yr old daughter too. I know how these problems can take over your life and divide a family.

All I can say is not to give up. Stay consistent and keep trying to get opinions until someone can find something. Sounds like he's a con artist and manipulator and that is how he's fooling those who have been trying to diagnose him. He sounds smart.. knows the difference between right and wrong and knows when to hide it or try to lie to get out of being held accountable.

If he's still allowed on the computer I would get keystroke tracking software and track his every move. I like the idea of an alarm on his door as well.

Hang in there!

 

[Father_0f_7]

Have you shown the psychiatrists the drawings and notes? If not I would definatly try that and see what they say. Having dealt with this before - I know it is especially hard on the other kids, not having a lot of attention, and at the same time worrying about their brother...that being said, I know you are giving as much attention as you can while also trying to help your son.

You said you took him to an outpatient mental hospital but have you tried a Mental Hospital where he would stay there? The only reason I even suggest it is because there they will have more insigt into his entire day - not just a portion of his day.

I would also like to say this has to be very hard on your son...If infact he cannot sepearate his fantasy life from reality he probably wants to make things normal again, he just doesnt know how and he may feel like he cant get help from you or someone he is close to in fear that you will look down on him.

EDIT: I know it is extremely rare, may sound stupid for even suggesting it and please forgive me if I am completely out of line but...have you (or counselors for that matter) considered multiple personalities? It just sounds to me like he is a totally different person outside of one place than he is with you.

 

[evilbrent]

when was the last time you went on a 5 day hike with just you and your son?

 

[bssage]

tough situation brother. Let me start by saying I have no real qualifications. That being said I was a bad kid. I can qualify that statement but it would be a lot of reading. A lot of the things you have said I did.

The first thing I did when I looked at my newborn son was call my parents and apologize for the hell I put them through.

Also my son 8 has ADHD and likely OCD. The first thing IMO is revisit his meds. My son is now on Vyvanse 50 mg and we really like it. We tried several different meds including Rittilan and several of them gave him vivid creepy thoughts or dreams. We really like the vyvanse.

I really cant tell you why I was the way I was (I was kicked out of boy scouts). But I do know my parents tried everything they could think of including almost all of the stuff you have tried. I, like your son was extremely smart and could turn on and off the bad me depending on my audience.

My brother is the opposite good kid great grades college ect... same parents 3 yrs difference in age. I was just bad.

What my parents did do right. Was give me the tools to be good when I was able to turn the corner. Young life (youth cristian club) CCD classes. Christian camps ect. What caused me to turn the corner was (I think) focussing on something other than myself.

Put him in a position to help someone else I.E Joe the plumber is having trouble with his little boy who is having some of the same problems you did when you were a kid. can you advise or talk to the kid?? Put him in your shoes and see where that takes you or him(supervised of course).

Another thing to be aware of with the web sites and tough talk. The kind of assosiations he makes from these peers are very accepting and accomidating of other peoples flaws. Its going to be very easy to make friends in this group. makes sure he has access to other more ballenced peers even if he doesnt want to be a part of the group he needs a model of what is acceptable.

Bottom line IMO stick with it. Take control of what you can. Reduce the household stress. Give your wife and yourself a break.

Dont think you are running out of time, 4 yrs. He is going to have to make the desision not you.

Protect yourself and your family.

Take another look at his meds

Bryan
I hope things work out well for you I know its tough

 

[Xero]

Luckily there is always the possibility he may grow out of it. In my experience, that happens a lot. I've grown out of all the crap from my teen years. Bssage seems to see the world a different way now too. It's hard to survive, but just hang in there, you know? He'll apologize someday. Bssage did, I know I did. I still do. I know the thought doesn't mean much now though.

If it helps I knew some kids like that when I was in high school, I was kind of friends with them. They didn't cut, but they talked about killing people and being in a gang and had a fascination with death. It was all pretty much just a joke though. I mean, they didn't laugh, but they weren't serious. They just liked to talk that way, they liked the sound of it, it was cool or funny or something. Do you know the band Insane Clown Posse? Or any of the other ones like that? Dark Lotus? All that stuff, I wouldn't be surprised to hear your son listens to them. They sing about death and killing people and all kinds of nasty stuff. I don't really listen to them but I think there is some morbid humor behind it, and that's the stuff those friends of mine listened to and that's why they joked like that. It was cool to them, but they knew ICP wasn't serious (or they'd be in jail, come on), and they knew they weren't serious, but I bet their parents didn't like it much.

I don't know where I'm going with this, but I guess it's just like you never know. Has he ever actually hurt anybody? He says nasty things... but maybe it's just talk.

 

[Pinkbook]

We are at ends and so our our in-laws. ( then again they just say "that's just Spencer") But its not at times he can be the most loving person on earth and then an instant later have a dark, menacing attitude and out of the blue start growling and hissing (literally)....

I have no therapist qualifications. However, that sounds like bipolar disorder. Those drastic changes in personality are something that is common among bipolar people. Have him check by a specialist on that disorder. I don't mean to alarm you but you really need to check on that because it could also be schizophrenia. Both very bad serious conditions.

Also tell your in laws to stop excusing his behavior. Explain that their hurting him rather than helping him. Established rules and watch him closely until a therapist can diagnosed him correctly, because pardon me it doesn't seam that the people you have taken him are doing his job correctly. It almost seems like he's on an antisocial path but the change of personalities has me thinking it's either bipolar or schizophrenia.

Also I agree with someone before who says to spend time with him all on it's own. Spend time knowing his hopes, dreams and confusions sometimes kids need time spend on them rather than on their problems. Also please spend time with your other kids as well. Sit to do homework with them or watch a movie. Those kids suffer also because they find there is no time left for them, this because their parents are drained of energy after dealing with that child.

Good luck and keep us posted.