"Everyone's a little bit racist......

[IADad]

...sometimes" (Avenue Q)

So, the discussion about sterotyping that started elsewhere (and if I were clever I'd link it, but I'm more lazy than clever - so look for the thread on radio lyrics) got me thinking about stereotypes, how we use them, the degree to which it's an unavoidable grouping of natural characteristics and the degree to which we use them negatively. So, that leads to the difference between stereotyping and racism and how we approach teaching about it.

So, I live in a place that is rather cosmopolitan in nature by virtue of being a university town, yet it's in the middle of white middle america - long story short - we don't have a lot of minority people around. Add to that the fact that my kids go to parochial school and you get the result that they live in a pretty white world. So, they've been taught that there are different people all around the world - treat everybody the same, don't judge on the basis of their skin or any other way to group someone for that matter. And I think it's been rather successful so far. There have been instances where they are trying to tell me about a particular kid and they'll say, "You know the kid who's the tallest, with the curly hair" before they go to skin color. I think it's really not the first characteristic they think of necessarily.

BUT, we have a neighborhood that's a little rough - not rough by inner city standards but rough for our town. Add to that that the residents on this particular street are largely black. Now, there are plenty of reasons for the intersection of high crime that are coincidental to the predominant skin color in the area - many are new arrivals from inner city Chicago, many under employed etc. so, it's unfortunate to have a population that gets identified as trouble tied so closely to skin color. So, when we go through this neighborhood (and we do weekly) I get questions like - "Why do all the people here hang around outside their houses?" , " I get nervous with all these people hanging around, are they criminals?" , "Why do they all smell like smoke" or "Why do they all smoke?" etc. So, they are making differentiation's, and guess how could they not. I try to talk to them about not casually using terms like "all these people" or "everyone," because it really isn't accurate. and we talk about why some people live in this neighborhood and the background they have in common.

I'm not really sure what my point or question is, but I guess it's just to say that it's easy to think you're raising your kids not to be racist when they go to a white school and have white friends and the notion of interaction with anyone different is a theoretical notion.

Can anyone else identify with the "problem I have?" It's not like I can go make friends for them artificially, who are of other ethnicity.

I fear I haven't made myself clear, but I'll stop and let discussion take over.

 

[mom2many]

Actually I can. I grew up in LA, California. Can't get more diverse then that. I had gay friends, straight friends. Hispanic, black, Asian, Indian, white friends. It just wasn't something I thought a whole lot about.

My older kids were raised there until they were 5/6/7, something like that and were also exposed to the same thing.

Then we moved to Idaho, where for the most part there are 2 races, and only one race is year round. You are white, or you're Hispanic, but a large portion of the Hispanics go back to their country during the fall/winter months and return in the spring.

I often find myself (with the younger kids) having to correct some of the things they say. Now, in the last 10 years there has been more and more blacks, it used to be rare to see an AA, it was almost a shock, even to me, so imagine the kids reactions. Now that the KKK's headquarters are gone I think more and more AA people are feeling better about coming here.

What I find I battle most, is the ignorance in this state against anyone who isn't white, or hell for that matter Mormon, but to be honest it's more on the older generation when the N word is still used, and in the little kids. By their teen years many of them seem to outgrow some of it.

If I had the option of friending more ethnic people I would, but I don't. My sisters kids are half black, half white, but she lives in Cali. So my kids know they have black cousins, but they don't know them, if that makes sense.

As for stereotypes. I think everyone has them, but that doesn't make them racist, we only know what we know, and our idea's are based off of what we see.

 

[LvMyLaxKid]

In your case, I would just say it's your situation and lack of opportunity, than racism. It's hard to make friends, if they're not there.

Parker goes to a predominately white school, but there are a few blacks, hispanics, asians, etc. To tell you the truth, I don't think Parker thinks twice about it. He DOES notice, and he'll say, "You know that brown skin boy?", but he means it in a factual way, not derogatory. He is actually good friends with a few of them, and one invited Parker to his Birthday. (and yes we went)

I've taught Parker that there are all kinds of people in this world, and that we're all human beings, who need to be treated with respect. We all have our own family traditions, and we all celebrate different holidays, and have different backgrounds, etc. And there is nothing wrong with that. We need to learn from differences, not judge or shun them. Being "different" isn't a bad thing, because we're ALL "different", to somebody. Who's to say who's right or wrong? We're different to black people, but does that make US wrong? We need to see things from both sides......

When Parker was 18mo, we lived in Atlanta, and I had to put him in Daycare. He was the ONLY white boy in there, and he was pale with clear hair- as white as they come! LOL I had a few friends ask if it bothered me. I told them no, because they were so little. All they saw was another child, not another color. And if the whole world could be like that, it would be a much better place.

 

[LvMyLaxKid]

I love this line in the Mackelmore song:

"aw nah here we go
America the brave still fears what we don't know
And God loves all his children, is somehow forgotten
But we paraphrase a book written thirty-five-hundred years ago"

He's talking about people shunning gay people, but it's true for anyone. I'm not bashing religion, but I find it sad how many people DO claim they're religious, and taught that God loves everyone, but will be a total racist.

Most people fear the unknown, and don't WANT to learn or open their hearts to differences.

And I'm NOT saying that ALL religious people are like that. I'm saying it's sad that some ARE like that.

 

[cybele]

My kid's schools are pretty mixed, actually no, their primary school does certainly have a higher Caucasian and Asian population than any other ethnicity, the high school though is all over the shop, which is fantastic.

My kids have always been quite cautious of what they say and I think that is due to negative experiences that have been unintentionally aimed at them. For all intents and purposes, my kids are white, however, they have Indian (as in from India, not the native Indian) heritage, which you would never pick by looking at them. Their great-grandmother on their father's side was from India she married a Caucasian man, and they had children who looked mixed, not quite dark but not quite light skin, and my mother in law does have black hair, but my mother in law married a Caucasian man and had well, my husband who is the splitting image of his father, blonde hair and blue eyes. So obviously no one picks that heritage. A few of the older ones have heard "curry" jokes in their time and they know how those comments hurt, probably more than anything hurt their great-grandmother, so they have learned from quite a negative experience.

 

[IADad]

I often find myself (with the younger kids) having to correct some of the things they say. Now, in the last 10 years there has been more and more blacks, it used to be rare to see an AA, it was almost a shock, even to me, so imagine the kids reactions. Now that the KKK's headquarters are gone I think more and more AA people are feeling better about coming here.

"Alcoholics Anonymous?"

 

[IADad]

I love this line in the Mackelmore song:

"aw nah here we go
America the brave still fears what we don't know
And God loves all his children, is somehow forgotten
But we paraphrase a book written thirty-five-hundred years ago"

He's talking about people shunning gay people, but it's true for anyone. I'm not bashing religion, but I find it sad how many people DO claim they're religious, and taught that God loves everyone, but will be a total racist.

Most people fear the unknown, and don't WANT to learn or open their hearts to differences.

And I'm NOT saying that ALL religious people are like that. I'm saying it's sad that some ARE like that.

Very true.

I don't hate much - I really try not to hate - I think "Hate" is one of the strongest words in the english language and should be reserved for true hatred rather than tossed about casually. So, I mean it when I say, "I hate it when people use religion to justify hatred or discrimination." I'm pretty religious, christian and I think it's required of me to love (or at least try to love) everyone, to not judge, to not be proud of my own piety, but rather us my faith to focus on how flawed I am and work to be better. That's what MY Christ taught me. And part of love is respect - I truly respect those who disagree with my views. So I have a real problem with "christians" who hate gays, or hate muslims, or single out anyone for hatred for that matter. So, I don't take your words as an attack on the religious - I think you're being accurate about the abuses of the falsely pious.

People do fear the unkown - the problem I have with my own perceptions is, for example - If I see a shifty character hanging out on the street and he's black, and I suspicious of him because he's black or because he's shifty? Does the fact that he's black play into my perception that he's shifty? I'd like to think not, but I'm scared, and being honest, that my true answer may actually be "yes." If i saw a dirtball looking white guy, I think I'd fear him less, I'd maybe view him as "shiftless" or "lazy" but probably not dangerous. So why the difference and how can I change me? I guess we all have struggles. I really try not to judge, and all my judgments aren't racial. i'd probably look harshly on a white woman using food stamps to buy food yet having cash to buy cigarettes while her children are in obvious need of soap....and yet I tell myself that I shouldn't judge. Shouldn't I step in and see what help she needs? Who am I to judge, I'm overweight and if I don't make changes I could need medication for anything from heart disease to diabetes yet I think I can look down on anyone for their weaknesses? Maybe I should look in the mirror the next time I pull into a drive through or stop off for convenience store pizza.

I have a friend - who is not religious at all, she's crazy as the day is long, and she finds flaws in others and can be harsh on them, BUT she is THE most generous single person I know - she literally will stop and ask someone if they need help, if they need food. She took in two kids who had lice, into her home so clean them up, because they always got re-infested in their own home. I don't know how, but she did. She saw kids in a bad neighborhood hanging out with nothing to do, so she organized picnics, and kick ball games and lord knows what else. She's the most generous person I know

All this stuff about how we treat each other really has me troubled. in case you can't tell. I really want to teach my kids to be generous, but not just the kind of convenient generosity, sure I can afford a couple of bucks off the top, but the really giving of yourself, really stepping up and making a difference, and that's hard to do when I obviously can't seem to do it myself.

(didn't even know I was going to confession this morning....)

 

[LvMyLaxKid]

Don't worry, I think we all do that to a certain extent. I think it's kind of bred into us, and is kind of human nature in a way......

But to say to yourself, "I HATE all black people(or whomever) no matter what, and WON'T be nice to them......" that's a different story.

 

[pwsowner]

I only had one period of racism, back in grade 10. English was never my best subject and my grade 10 teacher was Pakistan. He was attacking me in class all the time to scare other students into working harder. I found out later that's how he did it. He would pick one student who wasn't doing so good and hound that person and embarrass that person to scare the rest into trying harder. That year he picked me and failed me too. I hated Pakistan for several years after that, until I grew up and realised it had nothing to do with his race.

I even have a friend who is gay, but he knows not to ever ask me out. Women are much prettier.

Everyone is different in one way or another, but we're all creations of God.

 

[akmom]

We also live in a racially uniform area, so it's hard to demonstrate the principles of equality or see how our children are practicing it. But we have had the race discussion. I did get the girls dolls from every race, in hopes of making all those appearances more familiar to them. I have no idea if that has influenced them at all.

I think it's important that our children don't attach characteristics to people based on their race (prejudice) or hate a certain race (racism). But at the same time, you have to be sensible about it. They have to know that racism exists, that there are/were victims of it, and that that history has created demographic differences that often correspond to race. So... when they go off to college where they certainly will be exposed to racial diversity, they are prepared to integrate with people of all races. However, when they are white kids travelling through Detroit at night, they need to be aware that predominantly black neighborhoods are not a place where they are likely to be welcome or safe. The same is true of some of the native Alaskan villages up here (though certainly not all of them), where white visitors are not welcome and therefore not safe. You do have to know these things and be aware of them. Treating people with respect and equality is not the same as being oblivious.

I recently read a book by a man who assigns security details to public figures, and had over the course of his career investigated many crimes. He said a lot of people ignore danger clues because they fear being racist or judgmental. A person scares them, and happens to be black, and they worry that they are afraid <I>because</I> he is black, and so they refuse to take precautions. It wasn't just race; victims-to-be ignored a lot of gut feelings, thinking they were being judgmental of some other characteristic. So, if you are in a potentially dangerous situation and you feel uncomfortable, it's not the time to be worrying about racism. I think it's more important to discern these "judgments" when you are dealing with acquaintances, customers and classmates than with complete strangers in unknown settings. Just my thoughts.

 

[pwsowner]

However, when they are white kids travelling through Detroit at night, they need to be aware that predominantly black neighborhoods are not a place where they are likely to be welcome or safe. The same is true of some of the native Alaskan villages up here (though certainly not all of them), where white visitors are not welcome and therefore not safe. You do have to know these things and be aware of them. Treating people with respect and equality is not the same as being oblivious.

I recently read a book by a man who assigns security details to public figures, and had over the course of his career investigated many crimes. He said a lot of people ignore danger clues because they fear being racist or judgmental. A person scares them, and happens to be black, and they worry that they are afraid <I>because</I> he is black, and so they refuse to take precautions. It wasn't just race; victims-to-be ignored a lot of gut feelings, thinking they were being judgmental of some other characteristic. So, if you are in a potentially dangerous situation and you feel uncomfortable, it's not the time to be worrying about racism. I think it's more important to discern these "judgments" when you are dealing with acquaintances, customers and classmates than with complete strangers in unknown settings. Just my thoughts.

That's a very important point. Whether it's white's black's, yellow's or green's, the majority does want to treat all races equal, but there are people and neighbourhoods who are not that way yet, and many, including white's, that are a danger to other ethnicity's.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

In my humble opinion, concept of racism has long time turned the other way around, yet public is too scared to acknowledge it.
It is only spoken about racism, if a white offends a minority. When its the other way around -- it doesn't count. And moreover -- when differnt ethnic minorities go cutting up each other, nobody even notices.

 

[cybele]

The reason that the public is "too scared to acknowledge it" as you say is because whenever someone of Caucasian descent is crying racism it isn't actually racism by definition, it's just a mild convenience that often has very little to do with their race in the first place.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

What do you make of stories like that?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2283777/Boy-9-hanged-bullied-white.html[/url]

 

[cybele]

That article specifically?

The article changes the reason/source of the bullying halfway through from Asian children/racially motivated to older children/new to the school.
The word 'allegedly' comes up continually, meaning this may have or may not have occurred.
The principal's response makes absolutely no sense which is usually a telling sign that The Daily Mail aren't reporting the full or accurate story.
It's The Daily Mail who are known for sensationalism rathrr than accuracy.

Generally if the word 'allegedly' is continually repeated, then you need to be skeptical. But then articles about racial attacks on whites that may have occurred gain hits/sales, so for them 'allegedly' is more than good enough. In fact, it's ideal.

I am not saying that isolated incidents do not occur, of course they do, however Caucasians do not have it anywhere near as bad as any other racial minority and to suggest that they do just smacks of ignorance and white privilege.

 

[cybele]

Also I am struggling to find a corroborating article? Everything else I can find online is just forum discussions about that article, one of interest discusses girls of Hindu and Sikh faith being bullied by the same children, which blows the whole racism angle if it is true.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

I am not saying that isolated incidents do not occur, of course they do, however Caucasians do not have it anywhere near as bad as any other racial minority and to suggest that they do just smacks of ignorance and white privilege

Historically, yes, but present day present society (i mean, UK) there is no such thing as "white privilege". :no:
On the contrary, there are numerous initiatives to promote inclusion and accommodate those minorities' cultural needs. Speaking something insulting against a minority even on facebook is a punishable crime. However, we do proclaim such values as equality, freedom, friendship -- certain communities are really not "on the same page", especially on such things as violence, women's rights, and the same racial equality

As for Aaron's story, it is an extreme example that caused public outcry. But media certainly doesn't cover every incident that happens daily. Especially if it is a white person on the receiving end. It is just a "regular crime" or "bad behaviour".

After all, why is it, that people who have more affluence, don't really wish to live in "culturally diverse" areas, even if they are from minority groups? Are they all racist?

 

[Xero]

I'm all about treating everyone equal. What drives me nuts are the double standards. I was just saying to M2M the other day, I took a brief glance at another parenting forum the other day and one of the top threads was "Calling all moms of color". All I'm saying is, if someone went on there and posted "Calling all white moms" everyone in that forum would have a heart attack.

I live in a predominately white area, although I live close to the city where a large percentage of the population is black (and that's also where the crime mostly takes place, and you probably don't want to be out there at night or drive through slowly in your car lol). We also have a lot of Mexicans, because they tend to pick the grapes and whatnot (we grow intense amounts of grapes around here). It's weird, I have never really heard any questions from my kids at least yet about anyone else being a different skin color. I'm not even sure if they have noticed yet. My youngest brother is half white half black though, so maybe they just don't think twice about it. I must admit though, I realize we are mostly white around here, but when I took ODS to his Kindergarten orientation, I was still a little surprised that there was literally not one single kid of (noticeable) color in all the Kindergarteners at his school. 0_o

It's funny though, if I drive for 5 minutes in the direction of the city, suddenly I'm the only white girl in Country Fair (gas station). lol

 

[LvMyLaxKid]

I'm all about treating everyone equal. What drives me nuts are the double standards. I was just saying to M2M the other day, I took a brief glance at another parenting forum the other day and one of the top threads was "Calling all moms of color". All I'm saying is, if someone went on there and posted "Calling all white moms" everyone in that forum would have a heart attack.

I agree with this. Blacks have their own magazine called Ebony, Jet, etc. If we were to have an all white magazine called Ivory, they'd have a fit! They can have their all black organizations, and it's fine. But if we want to have something all white, it's wrong. It's the double standard that bothers me......I don't think things need to be all white, and I think racism is horrible. But it doesn't make sense when they have all black organizations, magazines, etc, and then call racism when we do it.

 

[mom2many]

"Alcoholics Anonymous?"

African Americans. So much shorter.


Sent from my iPhone, so please forgive my errors lol