Santa Vs No Santa...

[bssage]

The point of this thread is to put the Santa Debate here. Not in threads sharing happy stories or asking for Santa advice.

Consider this a preemptive strike against something we have seen in the past.

Is Santa a lie? or is Santa harmless fun? That is the topic.

Cole has just cleared the "I believe in Santa" stage I believe probably a year or two back. But when the opportunity was there we exploited it for all it was worth. Ringing sleigh bells outside the house: making reindeer tracks in the snow, Watching the progress of Santa's trip on the computer ect.

This behavior has been a tradition in my family and my wife's So I never really gave it a second thought. Until it was brought up here. There seem to be a fair amount of people who equate this to flat out Lying to you kids. Eroding the trust they have in you as a parent. At some point one poster said that they will never forget that their parents lied to them about Santa. And that they were scared by the memory.

 

[parentastic]

There seem to be a fair amount of people who equate this to flat out Lying to you kids. Eroding the trust they have in you as a parent.

I am part of the people who believe this, as part of the principles of being a model and doing what you preach; there are many arguments in favor of letting the child know it's a legend, not a fact.
This being said, I also believe that compared to MANY other fights, this one is not that bad, because the child eventually gets to realize it's an institution, a socially-accepted lie so to speak. There is a cultural element and fighting against it is difficult. Better chose your battles

 

[cybele]

Being that we don't celebrate Christmas, we don't do Santa. My kids know the myth, it's pretty hard not to, but there would be no reason for us to do it.

I have to admit, it is something I have never had any personal experience with, we never 'did' Santa when I was a child either, my mother used to say that he was the "personification of the Christmas devil", whatever that was supposed to mean.

That said, I hear of often the argument that it is horribly harmful to children, ect ect, but I am yet to actually meet someone, be it adult or child who says "Oh yes, I grew up with Santa and it has traumatised me and I can no longer trust my parents".

I think it's just a bit of harmless fun.

 

[singledad]

I didn't grow up with Santa either, and I've never really made a big deal about it with my daughter either. I don't think it's a major issue, though. Yes, it's a lie and yes, a child would probably be upset when they find out it isn't true, but I have yet to hear if someone whose relationship with their parents was permanently ruined by this. Seriously, there are bigger issues in life...

 

[bssage]

One thing I have thought is that the "I dont lie to my kids" group almost sounds mean.

I keep imagineing in my head parents who tell thier kids:

No there is no Easter Bunny.

No there is no tooth fairy.

Your performance at the school recital was not really a very accurate portrayal of a tree. And in fact the other two tree's did a much better job.

You clay pot project looks terrible

Your choice of dress make you look like a 11 year old idiot.

ECT

I tell white lies from time to time. To the grand parents, Wife, even others. I am a huge fan of honesty. But not to the point it does more harm than good. I think Santa makes the concept of the Christmas spirit a digestible idea for kids. A gateway if you will: for more meaningful dialog about what Christmas really means. About how our behavior reflects on more than what is immediate and that is has longer term outcomes. That the benifit of our actions is not tied to our social stand nor our station in life. And that learning the spirit of giving without expectation of getting is a Nobel pursuit.

 

[Mom2all]

I think relating Santa to the big "your parents are big old liars and not trustworthy" is a crock of crap. If believing in Santa causes mental damage to a person, I'd say that they didn't have very much of a chance of being healthy mentally to begin with. Childhood is the only time that believing in anything magical is socially acceptable. Why take that away? If you do, it goes much farther than Santa, the Easter Bunny, or the tooth fairy. Now we have to consider taking away all of the magic. Don't wish on your birthday candles, chances are it won't come true. No.. wishing on a falling star won't bring you good things, No, fairies aren't real so stop looking. For that matter, go ahead and tell your six year old that he isn't really superman because superman is a lie we concocted. Being a child is believing in the impossible and dreaming of wonderful things. Why not let them have that. Soon enough, magic disappears to become our adult reality. And in my adult world, although I know I can't physically soar like I thought I could wearing my wonder woman underoo's, I put on my big girl panties and still believe that I can accomplish what ever I set my mind to. I'm still a super hero.

 

[ikon99]

There are parents who never lie to their kids? I find that hard to believe. I thinks it's harmless t otell a white lie. Its better than the snide remark, its none of your business.

We do the Santa thing, the ten year old is having doubts about a round jolly fella delivering gifts. But the 5 y/o still believes and we all have fun with it. Eventually they will understand the truth and never be the worse for the wear. Lets let the kids have fun.

 

[akmom]

I don't do the Santa thing. Neither did my parents. My children receive gifts from family members, and I want them to appreciate it and thank those people, instead of assuming some magical entity distributed it all. I believe there is enough fascinating reality in the world that it does not take made-up things to make a child's life interesting. We find plenty of things to admire that do exist.

Another part of it is, my kids aren't going to be satisfied with the Santa Claus story. They'd want to pick apart the details. Why can't we raise that type of reindeer and fly in a sleigh too? Who cares about new toys when sky-sledding is obviously a possibility? I know my daughter wouldn't settle for that explanation when the caribou/reindeer she sees stay on the ground, and the sleds she uses only work on the snow. And if I told her something like Santa's reindeer are the only ones that can fly, she'd insist on breeding them. Plus she'd want to know why other flying animals have wings and caribou don't need them. We've run into this train of legitimate curiosity and valid criticism so many times before, that I know not to bother. Do kids really accept all these details without interrogating you about why/how, or insisting that they need to see or participate in it? Mine just wouldn't.

 

[cybele]

Your performance at the school recital was not really a very accurate portrayal of a tree. And in fact the other two tree's did a much better job.

Oh the temptation...


Sasha is an elf in his kindergarten's Christmas pageant this year, I help with the costumes so I caught some of the rehearsals. I don't know what his teacher was thinking, he's a terrible elf. He really is that child who should be a tree.

 

[NancyM]

I think relating Santa to the big "your parents are big old liars and not trustworthy" is a crock of crap. If believing in Santa causes mental damage to a person, I'd say that they didn't have very much of a chance of being healthy mentally to begin with. Childhood is the only time that believing in anything magical is socially acceptable. Why take that away? If you do, it goes much farther than Santa, the Easter Bunny, or the tooth fairy. Now we have to consider taking away all of the magic. Don't wish on your birthday candles, chances are it won't come true. No.. wishing on a falling star won't bring you good things, No, fairies aren't real so stop looking. For that matter, go ahead and tell your six year old that he isn't really superman because superman is a lie we concocted. Being a child is believing in the impossible and dreaming of wonderful things. Why not let them have that. Soon enough, magic disappears to become our adult reality. And in my adult world, although I know I can't physically soar like I thought I could wearing my wonder woman underoo's, I put on my big girl panties and still believe that I can accomplish what ever I set my mind to. I'm still a super hero.

I agree with this completely, I just love the wonder in children's eyes when they think of Santa, and the beautiful things children 'say' to Santa from their hearts is unmeasurable and honest and heart felt.

I too was raised believing in Santa, and no one ever told me he wasn't real, ever, you just kind of figure it out yourself. Not a big deal. I never accused my parents of being liars, they always got us great gifts and unselfishly said they were from Santa.

I was also raised believing in the Easter Bunny. lol and the Tooth Fairy to mention a few. My mother was a wonderful story teller and made up great stories from thin air, we all were encouraged to use our imaginations and 'pretend' was good.

I don't believe you will have serious mental problems from believing in Santa, from my own experience, I can only think the opposite, when I remember those times I have only good memories, and am happy I raised my son the same way.

Another interesting thing about those days, we were allowed to celebrate "Christmas" in the public school. We decorated the halls and windows, and had 'Christmas" parties in class. Santa was plastered all over the place. lol

Today they don't do that of course, but it doesn't mean children don't believe in him they just can't say it out loud.

 

[mom2many]

I believe and raise my kids that way. I loved Santa when I was younger and can not even remember when I learned the truth.

I am sure Colton doesn't believe but her hasn't said anything. Although he did discover their Santa gift so now I am left trying to figure it out. Ugh...thanks Kailyn!

This year we did give Santa an easier way in...lol, this is it not finished all of the way.

 

[NancyM]

I love the wall M2M great idea. The fireplace is great. Lol

 

[Jeremy+3]

We aren't christians so we don't do santa, but if we would we wouldn't. I do find it a bit odd when christians celebrate christmas, but they actually just use it as an excuse for greed and indulgence.

Another reason I find the santa thing odd is that in christianity it is a sin to lie as is gluttony.

 

[bssage]

First let me go on record saying. I don't think the "No Santa" group is some evil group taking away all the things fun for children. For some religions Santa is really a no brainier.

But I do think there is also something to be said about encouraging and nurturing a child's imagination. I think Fiction has a place in the world. And fiction with a moral story is even that much more of a benefit. I feel Santa is an excellent vehicle for that.

I have always both enjoyed and encouraged Cole's imagination. At story time: before bed: and when he was younger we would have story sessions. I would tell a story. Then he would take a turn and tell a story. The rules are simple. The story had to begin as a factual story. Then it could evolve to completely made up. I know he really enjoyed this. And so did I.

I think without the imaginations of others our worlds would be much less rich. Not all that long ago it would have been hard to imagine that we could carry a phone wherever we went. Not even to mention video record watch tv, movies, or just make it fart, ect ect.

I would guess most or at least a significant amount of this was imagined before it became a reality.

Parenting forums is the first time I had heard of someone who felt they had been harmed by the "Santa" stories.

And Jeremy: Your right but your also wrong. Christmas is about so much more than getting stuff. Its about showing the people you love that you know them enough, Listen enough, And love enough to take the time away from yourself to do or buy something thoughtful for them.

I can see how someone who does not celebrate it could come away with the idea that is all about self indulgence. TV and the media does a good job selling that message. But I think if you took the time to ask how most people feel about it that do celebrate it. You will hear words like teaching charity, Showing people you love them, Spending time with family and friends old and new. And good clean fun. It does at times slip away from us. And we end up overindulging. But we are pretty good at keeping it level now.

 

[ElliottCarasDad]

Another reason I find the santa thing odd is that in christianity it is a sin to lie as is gluttony.

But then they get forgiven!

 

[akmom]

I have to admit, it is something I have never had any personal experience with, we never 'did' Santa when I was a child either, my mother used to say that he was the "personification of the Christmas devil", whatever that was supposed to mean.

My parents said Santa was an anagram for Satan!

I do find it interesting that some posters are saying they don't do Santa because they aren't Christians. When I grew up, Santa Claus was the secular version of Christmas, and Christians celebrated the birth of Christ instead. I don't pretend to know where all the traditions originated, but when I was a kid, secular families incorporated gifts into the holiday with the Santa Claus story, and Christians incorporated gifts as part of celebrating Christ's birthday. Most evangelical families I knew did not do Santa.

 

[cybele]

Well, we're Pagan, so our "holiday" (Litha) around this time of year occurs a week before and has nothing to do with gifts, that, for us, is during Yule, and being in the southern hemisphere, that occurs for us around July. (The holidays are different in the Southern and Northern hemisphere's as they are controlled by the seasons)

The kids get protective totems for Litha to protect them into the new year, but that's it really. Mother Earth doesn't bring gifts :laugh:

That said, on the 25th of December we have a little materialistic fun and call it "Family Day" and we each buy each other a (small) gift with a little card that states why we are grateful to have that person in our lives. A little tradition my Mother In Law started back when DH was a kid and other faiths were not as tolerated, and it just stuck. Plus I think it's really sweet and gets the kids to reflect on how important family is. A mythical man bringing gifts for no reason doesn't really fit into that.

 

[NancyM]

But then they get forgiven!

lol that's right.