Sarcasm...

[Cop2be]

How much is sarcasm tolerated in your house and by you in general?

There is another forum I post on and in this thread, there were discussing things like sarcasm and one person said when she asks her son what he's going to do when he goes out he sometimes replies with "oh the usual, out to rape and pillage" she says she obviously knows her son is just going to go out with friends and hang out.

Another person said if that ever happened their child would be in trouble so fast it wouldn't be funny.


I got to thinking about this especially after last night.
My mom used to accuse me of the most asinine things ever. when I was 13 and my brother 8, we used to use way too much toilet paper, yet my mom accused me of selling it for drug money. (She wasn't kidding.). When I was 18, she accused me of flushing a used condom down the toilet at the house simply because it clogged. (Funny part is, I didn't have sex till I was like 20.)

When I was still a junior or senior in high school, 17/18, I came up with a response to her wild flaming accusations and conspiracies.
When she'd say stuff like the above mentioned, I would respond with an equally crazy story about a gangbang with several large black men. (I'm not racist, it was just more outlandish and got under her skin.)

And just last night I used it again, when she accused me and DB of being drug dealers, we're always broke, drug dealers are usually pretty loaded even if they use too. DB said to me last night, after the fact, "If we were drug dealers, then why would we be broke all the time?"

The following are true excerpts from conversations:

Me: **** is picking me up, we're going to sit in the hot tub at her apartment.
Mom: You're going to have sex with boys aren't you?
Me: Oh yeah mom, I'm going to go have a gangbang with some large black men with prison names.

The condom flushing accusation evoked a response of "oh yeah from the big black gangbang I had the other night, there's 7 condoms stuck in the toilet."

Anyways last night she calls me and told me she had some food for me and DB and wanted to know where I was and when I was going to pick it up, I was at work with DB, he picked me up from work and had to go back in and we didn't end up leaving till 9pm.
Well, she accused us of being drug dealers, I don't know how she arrived at that accusation but she did, I guess because he typically works late all the time or something, who knows.

All this is of course sarcasm and in my opinion well deserved sarcasm.
How well does sarcasm go over in your house?

 

[cybele]

Depends on the situation.

Sarcasm does get used, but not often, I guess it isn't the preferred form of humour in our household.

Never in the ways you described though. if any of my children made a joke about rape, whether it be sarcasm or otherwise, they would be in for a world of hell because I am of the belief that anyone with a shred of decency doesn't refer to predatory behaviour that has destroyed millions of lives with jest.

I probably wouldn't respond too well to my child joking about gangbangs either, that's just uncalled for.

Like I said, time, place and content are important, rather than the style of humour itself.

 

[Cop2be]

Depends on the situation.

Sarcasm does get used, but not often, I guess it isn't the preferred form of humour in our household.

Never in the ways you described though. if any of my children made a joke about rape, whether it be sarcasm or otherwise, they would be in for a world of hell because I am of the belief that anyone with a shred of decency doesn't refer to predatory behaviour that has destroyed millions of lives with jest.

I probably wouldn't respond too well to my child joking about gangbangs either, that's just uncalled for.

Like I said, time, place and content are important, rather than the style of humour itself.

In the context it was totally appropriate. Accuse me of something completely ignorant, insult my intelligence, and force me to hear stupid comments and my response will be just as crazy.

 

[cybele]

Difference in perception. To me, both of those examples are never appropriate. Full stop end of story. To others, they may be.

 

[singledad]

I could probably stomach the gang-bang line, depending on the context, but I have to agree with cybele - no reference to rape is ever funny, regardless of the context. South Africans have a reputation for joking about even the most macabre things, but I draw the line at rape.

As for sarcasm in general - I use it a lot, but to be honest, its one of the habits I'm trying to break, along with swearing too much. As with most things in life, there is a time and place where it is appropriate, but there are too many occasions where sarcasm just comes across as bad taste.

 

[Jeremy+3]

To be honest we don't really care as long as they aren't being rude, well thats for the little ones, obviously the older ones can say what they like. In our house it isn't unusual to tell each other to f off, but its not in a rude or horrible manner, its friendly. I know in some cultures that wouldn't be the case, but here it is seen that if you can say that to someone it is a sign of friendship and camaraderie, as is calling someone a twat etc, or introducing them to someone and just labeling all of their bad points.

 

[tadamsmar]

How much is sarcasm tolerated in your house and by you in general?

None.

But, what really interests me is the whole way that parents typically think about the notion of <I>toleration</I>. Parents tend to think in terms of "I won't tolerate this, I will tolerate that."

But step back a minute and think about it. There is no instant way to get rid of unwanted behavior. All the available effective methods work over a period of days or weeks. So, in some sense, you <I>have</I> to tolerate unwanted behavior for a while as you are using an effective method to get rid of it. Since it can take weeks, it takes some patience.

Typically, when a parent says or thinks "I won't tolerate this", they are not thinking clearly, they are simply setting themselves up to react in a counterproductive manner that may well end up causing/reinforcing the unwanted behavior.

So when I say that I tolerate zero sarcasm, I mean that I always deploy the most effective method I can find to get the behavior to cease or become very uncommon within a few weeks.

(Some behaviors must be stopped immediately to protect people from harm. This has nothing directly to do with eliminating the behavior in he longer run. But sometimes <I>the way</I> it is stopped, parental behavior while stopping it, can be important in the longer run.)

 

[mom2many]

To be honest we don't really care as long as they aren't being rude, well thats for the little ones, obviously the older ones can say what they like. In our house it isn't unusual to tell each other to f off, but its not in a rude or horrible manner, its friendly. I know in some cultures that wouldn't be the case, but here it is seen that if you can say that to someone it is a sign of friendship and camaraderie, as is calling someone a twat etc, or introducing them to someone and just labeling all of their bad points.

This is my house, some people would have heart attacks. Others know it's in good fun and no real harm is meant. I think intent behind the words is just as important as the words themselves.

 

[bssage]

I freakin love good sarcasm.

But IMHO this

I would respond with an equally crazy story about a gangbang with several large black men. (I'm not racist, it was just more outlandish and got under her skin.)

This does seem racist to me. So you saying the "gangbang" would be not as bad if it involved small white men??

The following are true excerpts from conversations:

Me: **** is picking me up, we're going to sit in the hot tub at her apartment.
Mom: You're going to have sex with boys aren't you?
Me: Oh yeah mom, I'm going to go have a gangbang with some large black men with prison names.

IMHO a good sarcastic response is quick and short. Shorter the better. Example:
Mom: You're going to have sex with boys aren't you?
Me: Yes.

None.

But step back a minute and think about it. There is no instant way to get rid of unwanted behavior. All the available effective methods work over a period of days or weeks. So, in some sense, you <I>have</I> to tolerate unwanted behavior for a while as you are using an effective method to get rid of it. Since it can take weeks, it takes some patience.

Typically, when a parent says or thinks "I won't tolerate this", they are not thinking clearly, they are simply setting themselves up to react in a counterproductive manner that may well end up causing/reinforcing the unwanted behavior.

So when I say that I tolerate zero sarcasm, I mean that I always deploy the most effective method I can find to get the behavior to cease or become very uncommon within a few weeks.

(Some behaviors must be stopped immediately to protect people from harm. This has nothing directly to do with eliminating the behavior in he longer run. But sometimes <I>the way</I> it is stopped, parental behavior while stopping it, can be important in the longer run.)

 

[Cop2be]

I freakin love good sarcasm.

But IMHO this

This does seem racist to me. So you saying the "gangbang" would be not as bad if it involved small white men??



IMHO a good sarcastic response is quick and short. Shorter the better. Example:
Mom: You're going to have sex with boys aren't you?
Me: Yes.

Gangbangs are what they are no matter the race of the participants.
But when your mother is a judgmental loon who likes to make wild accusations and annoy the shit out of you, whatever crawls under her skin the most is the option to go with.

Seriously, I moved out, I am doing well, he works super late and because we're not going to be getting back home till late we're drug dealers....

And she takes everything so seriously.
If I were to have simply said yes she would have taken me serious and tried to stop me from leaving even though I was 18 at the time and she held me at the house for more than 6 hours it would have been I forget the term but it's illegal.

So it has to be blatantly out there and not even plausible and so sarcastic that even she knows its a joke.

 

[parentastic]

I believe sarcasm is a wonderful tool to crack jokes at politicians and to take serious and difficult life situations with a grain of salt against adversity; but it has <U>no place</U> in any serious discussion involving a personal relationship.

In relationships, sarcasm has 2 very seriously negative effects:

1) It perpetrate and increase contempt over someone, sending a negative message that is destructive to a relationship on the long run, and

2) Using the excuse of humor, it covers-up the real issues and avoids dealing with it.

Example:

My mom used to accuse me of the most asinine things ever. when I was 13 and my brother 8, we used to use way too much toilet paper, yet my mom accused me of selling it for drug money. (She wasn't kidding.). When I was 18, she accused me of flushing a used condom down the toilet at the house simply because it clogged. (Funny part is, I didn't have sex till I was like 20.) And just last night I used it again, when she accused me and DB of being drug dealers

In this situation, Cop2be, there seem to be a clear pattern. It's not the first time your mother is accusing you of all sort of things. There was the toilet paper incident at 13, then the condom incident at 18, and now it's the drug dealing with the Bf...

So what I am getting from this, IMO, is that you have a serious and repeating problem with your mom, it's been over a decade if not more, and it's still there. Why?

From her standpoint, IMO, she may have some genuine fears:
it seems she is not trusting you fully, she is afraid you'd fall into gangs and drugs, she is wondering about your safety and your sex life, but she does not know how to talk to you about it in a non-intrusive manner and ends up accusing and hurting you and the relationship between you and her.

From your standpoint, IMO, she is constantly on your case, she is not trusting you - which might feel very insulting, she is nosy and picks on you for things that are none of her business today, and she is over dramatic about it, not to mention down right intrusive.

Each time you use sarcasm, you reinforce the above pattern.

Your mom may think: "- There she goes again with her stupid jokes! She does not take me seriously. It's insulting! I really DO care about her and I am so afraid. How can she even JOKE about something as serious as this? This is the proof that she is not serious enough to be trusted. So I was right to be suspicious!"

And so she continues even more to accuse you of stuff and worry about you and she continues not to trust you.

The proper way to address this is NOT to use sarcasm. You sit down with her. You use a genuine and authentic "I" message, as you lock into her eyes with great seriousness:

"Mom, this accusation, it hurts me. When you suggest that I get involved in drug just because my BF works late, I don't know how to react. It feels painful to hear how little you trust me and my judgment and my loved ones. I don't understand how you can think this, and it makes me sad. Would you please explain to me how come you can think this? Are you really that worried about this, sincerely? What can I do to reassure you?"

Try that instead of sarcasm.
Open up to her answer.
See what happens.

 

[bssage]

Or ,,,,, you can enjoy some sarcasm

One of my personal favorites happens almost daily.

grandmother in-law: "Just calling to check on the kids. Is every one OK?"

Me: "Kids????"

I think you can be sarcastic without being offensive.

 

[Cop2be]

I really don't give a shit if she trusts me or not. I don't live at home, its her issue not mine.
If I was still living at home, then yes it would be my issue too but her trust doesn't affect me or control me like it did when I was living at home. She didn't trust me so she set rules, I don't live at home so can't set rules and I don't give a damn.

I just don't want to hear it.
I know she knows that I am not involved in gangs, drugs(besides pot on occasion, i do not wake and bake), that I eat healthy, she knows I am on BC.
I don't get her.
Her accusations stem from some serious paranoia, she feared me and my friends would kill her in her sleep. She is not worth jail time, I really do love my mom and she's the only parent I have as much as I wish she'd stfu already, I could never kill her. I almost sent medics to her house yesterday because a fight with my brother made her have another TIA and she wouldn't go to the ER.

Anyways, she has some deep seated seeded rooted whatever issues and some pretty terrible paranoia and I don't know why.
I don't know what is going on with her.

Sarcasm has always been my defense mechanism.
It's a Friday night and DB's sister is having friends over, I worked till 830, DB is still at work even though two of his bosses are here (all friends through work). i don't want to be social, I don't want to hang out. All I want is DB here to enjoy the night with me. I'm pissed off, its not fair they are here and he isn't. Its 930 at night, I want to scream. This isn't the life of a drug dealer, this is the life of someone over worked and over stressed.

My mom hasn't worked in a long time, she doesn't know what it's like.

 

[cybele]

Well... It's good to know tht you could never kill your mother.

Where on earth did THAT come from?

 

[Jeremy+3]

Well... It's good to know tht you could never kill your mother.

Where on earth did THAT come from?

Weird, even worse was the whole "shes not worth going to jail for".

 

[Cop2be]

Well... It's good to know tht you could never kill your mother.

Where on earth did THAT come from?

That was just one of her many paranoias.

 

[Cop2be]

Weird, even worse was the whole "shes not worth going to jail for".

Oh come on, it's a saying.
Seriously if sarah palin or mitt romney got anywhere near office do you know how many democrats would suddenly LOVE guns?

 

[Jeremy+3]

Oh come on, it's a saying.
Seriously if sarah palin or mitt romney got anywhere near office do you know how many democrats would suddenly LOVE guns?

I've never heard that as a saying before, but then I don't spend time around people who think it is acceptable to be both racist and joke about rape.

 

[bssage]

Ok I am going to give this sarcasm thing a shot.

C2B. You and your grandma need to find some "common ground". Something that you both have in common. That will go a long way in mending fences.

It seems to me that Grandma spends a lot of time thinking about you. About what you do. Who you do it with. Ect

It also seems that you also spend a lot of time thinking about you. There you have it "common ground".

 

[Cop2be]

Ok I am going to give this sarcasm thing a shot.

C2B. You and your grandma need to find some "common ground". Something that you both have in common. That will go a long way in mending fences.

It seems to me that Grandma spends a lot of time thinking about you. About what you do. Who you do it with. Ect

It also seems that you also spend a lot of time thinking about you. There you have it "common ground".

This isn't about my grandmother.
This one is about my mom.
My grandmother doesn't buy into my moms bullshit.