Shaving.......

[yunihara]

So what is everyone's opinion of leg shaving? My 13 year old daughter started to shave her legs, and I don't really mind it. We've always made sure that our children know that what they do in the shower is their own business, and their bodies are their own. However, my wife is a little more concerned about it. She feels that our daughter is too young, and as my wife does not shave herself, she worries that our daughter started doing it because she felt it was a necessity as a woman-which is not the message my wife wants her to have. My wife is also a little irritated that our daughter didn't ask if she could and bought the razor herself, but my wife feels guilty for feeling that way since, like I said, we always wanted our daughter to know that her body is her own.

My wife's biggest concern is her younger sisters (17 and 14) may have pushed our daughter into doing it. Both girls love hair, make up and the like, and our daughter has never been that way but does love these girls (sisters she's never had lol). I know that teenagers want to fit in with their peers, but its leg shaving, not alcohol and drugs lol. Our daughter said that she felt self-conscious about the hair, and I think that is part of being a teenager - which is a first for us, since the twins are our oldest children.

I guess I'm just curious what everyone thinks of it, and how to ease my wife's concerns. Her sisters are wonderful young women, but have a very different home life than what we provide, so I'm not worried about their influence. But my wife has a very all-natural idea of womanhood and dislikes unnatural things like make up and leg shaving. Just... curious. lol Sorry about my rambling.

 

[cybele]

In the end, every woman has a different view of what 'womanhood' is. For some it is plastic fantastic, for others it is being all natural, and for most, it is somewhere in the middle.

At 13 she is probably not going to be on the natural viewpoint, because teenagers put exceptional amounts of pressure on themselves and each other to maintain a physical standard, which does change, lessen, increase, or morph entirely as they grow older.

I do agree with part of what your wife is saying, I look at my girls and I think they look perfect the way they are, and why should they do this, that and the other for the sake of beauty, on the other hand, I need to respect where they are, the pressures they are under and the fact that my body is mine and their body is theirs and that they have just as much of a right to feel comfortable in their bodies as I do. A philosophy is not worth inflicting body discomfort on someone else.

If she is really concerned they could always have a chat about body expectations, but I don't think it is fair for your adult wife who is not subject to the level of peer pressure that a 13yr old is, and who has had much time to come to terms with and familiarise herself with her own body and form her own opinions on her body to push those expectations onto her daughter, who is yet to even develop her body properly, let alone figure out how she views it, and she will come to that only by trying things out, shaving is one of those trials.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

If she is dark haired, it is the right time to shave. Especially if she wears shorts or goes to swimming pool.
Your wife is overreacting. "All natural" may be her choice, but leg hair for a young girl, especially dark - is embarrasing.

 

[cybele]

Thickness plays a part too, Sunny is blonde and Dita has dark brown hair, but Dita's leg hair is quite thin and sparse, whereas Sunny has inherited my insane hairy-ness, it's blonde but you can see it from ages away. Poor kid.

 

[mom2many]

That's the average age for girls to start shaving. Your wife is just not liking baby girl growing up.

 

[yunihara]

Ha, I do think my wife is concerned that my daughter thinks she needs to change herself to be acceptable, but I believe most of it is her sadness that our daughter is getting older. We've done the all natural thing the entirety of the childrens' lives, so she probably wants to explore outside of that to an extent. I think the mix of new baby and daughter growing up is just making my wife feel a little emotional and a little overprotective.

 

[Xero]

No, she is over reacting lol. I don't have girls (but the same will apply to my boys once they grow facial hair, I guess), but if I did I would let them shave whenever they noticed the hair on their legs, felt embarrassed about it, and asked to be able to shave it. Pretty much as simple as that, really. 13 is well old enough IMO. I think I am more surprised that your wife doesn't shave lol (that would drive me crazy I shave all the time).

 

[yunihara]

My wife has never shaved lol. Its funny because she and her sister who is closest in age to her, don't shave, but the younger sisters do. I would say its because she and her sister were born in China while the younger two were born in America, but shaving is common for women in China so I guess they just never wanted to for a variety of reasons ha.

I do agree that she's overreacting a bit, but like I said, new baby and only daughter getting older might be getting to her. She's doing well not forcing her opinion at all; she just requested that our daughter keep the razor out of the younger kids' reach. But she voices all her concerns to me so I was curious if there was anything I could say to ease her concerns. Her biggest worry, I think I mentioned it, is that our daughter is just doing things to fit in without thinking about it.. but our daughter has never been like that and is very independent. She just wanted to shave lol.

 

[akmom]

Does your wife brush her hair? The only reason to do that is to look nice. Shaving your legs to look nice is no different. It keeps you from "standing out" by neglecting culturally acceptable grooming standards that others will notice.

Skipping makeup and jewelry does not make one "stand out." It is perfectly acceptable in our culture to walk around without makeup or jewelry. So I would argue that leg shaving is less of a vanity and more of standard that shows others you take care of yourself. That does not mean there is anything wrong with au naturale, and I think all of us have gone without shaving or even brushing our hair at some point. But I don't think one has to have hairy legs to make a statement about self-confidence or nonconformity. Thirteen is an appropriate age for leg shaving.

 

[cybele]

I have to admit, if I didn't have the leg tattoos or if it didn't bother me when hair grew over the top of them, I would not shave during winter, because I am lazy and hey, extra insulation for the colder months.

 

[yunihara]

Well, shaving, for my wife, is a symbol of vanity and unfairness between the sexes (why is is socialably unacceptable for a woman not to shave while a man can be as hairy as he wants?) Neither of us consider it a sign of good hygiene, because its not required for men to do so in order to be clean. We understand that there are difference in hygiene between the sexes about certain things because of what our bodies do, but that doesn't include leg hair.

I don't think its a big deal to shave, myself, for neither men or women. She doesn't do the all-natural thing to stand out but because its healthier for your skin to not scrape it with razors or cake make-up on it. Brushing your hair keeps it from tangling and skin and dirt from collecting on your scalp, so I think that is more of a necessity. she also doesn't want our daughter to do things she doesn't want to do just to fit in. That is what I'm trying to say. I don't see why shaved legs would show that she is taking care of herself?

 

[Xero]

Does your wife brush her hair? The only reason to do that is to look nice. Shaving your legs to look nice is no different. It keeps you from "standing out" by neglecting culturally acceptable grooming standards that others will notice.

Skipping makeup and jewelry does not make one "stand out." It is perfectly acceptable in our culture to walk around without makeup or jewelry. So I would argue that leg shaving is less of a vanity and more of standard that shows others you take care of yourself. That does not mean there is anything wrong with au naturale, and I think all of us have gone without shaving or even brushing our hair at some point. But I don't think one has to have hairy legs to make a statement about self-confidence or nonconformity. Thirteen is an appropriate age for leg shaving.

I think this explains it perfectly.

Anyway, you say men aren't required to do it, which is true to an extent, BUT do you shave your facial hair? Or trim it at least? That's the same thing in my eyes. It is unappealing for a man to literally never shave his face, and walk around with a hobo beard, just the same (in this culture's eyes) as it is for a woman to never shave her legs and walk around with man legs (well, that's what mine would be anyway haha, my sister could never shave and you'd barely notice).

I hate that I can't think of a better way to put that....lol. I am totally not directing that at your wife's choices, I am all for everybody doing whatever they feel is right for them, and whatever they are comfortable with. I guess in my eyes (and those of most of our culture here), shaved legs on a woman look cleaner and tidier, just the same as a shaved or properly trimmed face looks on a man. No, neither gender HAS to do it by any means, and everyone should keep their facial/leg hair however makes them happy. All I am trying to say is, that I understand why she is more comfortable shaving her legs, and this view on the matter is why.

On a different note, my mom used to have a friend that moved here from China, and she actually did not grow any body hair at all! It was crazy! I was so jealous. lol

 

[cybele]

Yunihara, for what it's worth, I completely understand where your wife is coming from, I'm another one who likes to heavily question the social standards that differ between men and women.
I don't think face shaving is comparable, it's one thing and it is treated as a fashion, as an extension of the hair on your head beards are "in" at the moment and they are more than socially acceptable, but women are expected to shave legs, armpits, snail trail, toes, if you get a bit of facial hair during pregnancy or menopause, there is something to take care of that, pluck eyebrows and lets not get started on bikini lines.
It's not comparable and it has nothing to do with hygiene, by that logic we should shave our heads too, it has everything to do with idealised beauty in western societies, and yes, there is a sexual side to it. These 'standards' are only recent, every watched porn from the 80's? There isn't a bare woman in sight.

I think it is a very important thing for young girls to learn to question, however part of questioning things independently is coming to your own conclusion and not having those decisions made on your behalf, which is where I think your wife needs to step back, but it's also important for your wife to sit down with your daughter and explain her beliefs and why she believes this so strongly, so your daughter can see two sides to the story (because it sounds like she has heard the side her aunts are on).

 

[yunihara]

I don't think facial hair is comparable either. If it gets too long, its in the way (at least for me it is, maybe because I am clumsy with a longer beard). But I am not clean shaven and have not been since high school, and leg hair doesn't get in the way of anything, you don't get food in it or light it on fire when you lean too close to a candle lol. My daughter questions everything, and she and I ended up discussing it after school today. She said she was curious what it felt like and that was the biggest reason to do it, and although her aunts did take her to get the razor, she didn't do it because they pushed her to. In her words "They don't try to get me to do anything I don't want to. Its cool." She likes the way it feels, and hadn't even given a tought to how it <I>looked</I>.

I mean, this is coming from a girl, who at 13, looks up the ingredients of everything soap and shampoo out there to pick which one she would like to put on her body.

But that discussion has eased my wife's concerns. My daughter knows my wife's opinions but my wife hasn't been pushing her either, as that would hypocritical of her to do.

 

[cybele]

That's great.

I am halfway tempted to try to light various types of body hair on fire now though.

 

[yunihara]

From experience, hair is highly flammable especially MY facial hair. That candle example comes from experience. The entire Buddhist temple smelled like burnt hair for a few hours

 

[cybele]

Now that is an image.

I wonder if dreadlocks are more or less flammable? Would hair dye make a difference?
So many questions.

 

[akmom]

I kind of lean toward Xero's perspective. Men shave or trim their beards pretty regularly, not just when it gets long enough to trap food or go up in flames near a candle. Men keep electric razors in their vehicles to trim down the "5 o'clock shadow." Hairy men tend to shave their backs if they swim or go shirtless. To me, that is the exact same concept as women shaving their legs. Just different body regions.

 

[cybele]

I'm a little weirded out by the men you know Akmom, haha.

I don't know anyone who keeps an electric razor in their car or trims back hair.

This must not be a thing here.

 

[singledad]

I don't think facial hair is comparable either. If it gets too long, its in the way

Um, I don't think that's why most men shave. Me, and most guys I know, shave because simply allowing it to grow into an untidy stubble looks and feels bad. Some guys shave simply because their wives/girlfriends want them to. I've never heard of anyone complaining about facial hair getting in the way of anything. But then, you don't really see men walking around with beards long enough to do so...

I think there's a distinct difference between simply falling in with what society in general wants without consideration, and personal grooming for the sake of looking and feeling your best. I don't see that there is anything wrong with anyone, male or female, of any age, putting effort into their appearance. It's only when it becomes blind conformity, or something obsessive, like a woman who wakes up early to put on makeup so her partner won't ever see her without, that it becomes a problem.

It sounds like your daughter is doing it for the right reasons, though, so it's all good.