Should health issues be considered before conception???...

[Mom2all]

I angered a co-worker the other night with my opinion on people with severe genetic health problems having babies. I'm curious to see what you all think.

My belief...

Being a parent begins before conception. If you have something horrible that can be passed to your children, it's unfair to have a child just hoping for the best to satisfy your desire to carry a fetus. There are options to become a parent that does not involve passing on conditions that make a childs life even harder in hard world.

I'm not talking about small things.. but rather large issues. Like the mother who had 5 or 6 children, all born with a heart defect which killed all but 1 before they were 6 months old in hopes that she could have a bigger natural family.

The topic came up because a friend of mine who is a wonderful person is trying really hard to concieve. She is obese. 500+ pounds before the bypass surgery as is everyone in her family. She is married to a man who is learning disabled and who would still have to live with his parents if it were not for her because he could not make it on his own. I would not want her to have a child who would have to live through what she has. She is beautiful.. and no one ever saw it because they looked at her size and not her heart. Compiled with a learning disability... what kind of life would that child have?

 

[Jeremy+3]

Well here, an adult with learning disabilities would not be granted custody of a child, and that adult would not be allowed to look after a child alone.

My wife has PCOS, we didn't know until Jake was born, she was ovulating normally, but not very often, between Jackson and Amelia she had tests, but they clearly coincided with a month when she ovulated normally. If we had known, then we would have both been 'fixed' before we had any children.

I find that a lot of people who do say that there are other options, are normally the people who have not had to try to use those options. We for example have been on the adoption 'list' for 15 years, we have never been matched with a single child, we don't care about gender, age, illnesses, disabilities etc.
It is best that those who foster do already have children of their own, as it isn't the best idea to constantly take children away from childless couples.
IVF is something I will never agree with. IVF results in more complications during pregnancy and birth compared to naturally conceived children, this isn't just multiple births either. With IVF 7.2 our of 1000 thousands births are still births, where as the figure is 3.7 for natural pregnancies.
The death rate by the age of two years is double that of natural pregnancy, IVF children are nowhere near as healthy as your average child born via a natural pregnancy and are far likely to be either infertile or to produce even weaker children themselves.

 

[Mom2all]

I find that a lot of people who do say that there are other options, are normally the people who have not had to try to use those options. We for example have been on the adoption 'list' for 15 years, we have never been matched with a single child, we don't care about gender, age, illnesses, disabilities etc.

I guess the US is a little different. They beg for people to adopt here because we have so many children needing a family. They even help with the cost if you adopt an older child or one with special needs. I'm sorry you have had so many problems with that.

I also had issues while pregnant. With my 3rd child, I has gestational diabeties. They also told me that he had genetic makers for down syndrome and spina bifida. We prayed for the lesser of the 2 evils and waited to see if he would have the chance to live. I was fortunate that he was healthy. BUT... I had my tubes tied the day after he was born and started searching for other alternatives to having a big family. I, like you, do not care if we adopt children with disabilities... I just didn't want to create them.

 

[IADad]

Yes, I think it should be a consideration, but in the end it's a matter of personal conscience.

I think the only thing that can or should be done about it, is for people to have civil discussions like we are having here, so that people at least know there are considerations to make, factors to consider.

Back when we were first trying to conceive we went through 3 rounds of IUI unsuccessfully. The next step for the fertility clinic was IVF. We decided that being natural parents wasn't that vital to us, if it was meant to happen it would if not we'd find other ways to fulfill our lives and make the most of them. We hadn't even known about the health statistics for IVF babies. So, I see there is maybe an imbalance, where you have many voices touting the great advances in technology like IVF, and few voices espousing caution.

But even knowing all that, I would never tell someone else that they shouldn't do IVF or that they are wrong or selfish fr doing so.

 

[Jeremy+3]

Adoption doesn't cost anything in the UK. Is it expensive in the states?

 

[IADad]

Adoption doesn't cost anything in the UK. Is it expensive in the states?

according to an article at adoption.com, US adoptions differ from very little cost for state adoptions to $5,000 - $40,000 for Private/agency adoptions.

So, I guess it depens on how you find the child you are going to adopt.

 

[Xero]

Private adoptions are pricey, but adoptions through the foster agencies are completely paid for, and actually they usually pay YOU lol. I think its because when a child is placed in the foster system, they are in custody of the state, and not the people who care for them. The state pays someone else to care for them. Does that make sense? If adoption is made an option, they pay for it to be done.

But anyway this is a hard subject for me to give opinion on. I don't know. I guess I kind of agree, but I think its not my place to say. :/

 

[mom2many]

I can jump in here..

My oldest is bi-polar and learning disabled, Vanna was born with one kidney, Colton has ADHD and I am overweight. Does that mean I am not entitled to children? Or that my childrens lives are less valuable?

Ted's bi-polar didn't show up until a few months ago, but that does put my other kids at greater risk and thier future kids. His learning disability isn't genetic..it was one of those things. ADHD runs in the family, but not the end of the world. Vanna's one kidney is all one of those things, not genetic in any way but I still had two more kids after her, 6 more after ted and 3 more after Cole. (2 of my 8 are not bio)

There is a line between what happened in my kids and parents who have serious genetic defect's in thier DNA and still choose to produce children. I also understand thier need to have one of thier own, there is nothing as great as feeling your child grow in your womb, there isn't, that doesn't down play adoption or foster care, they are equally great things...no morning sickness, swelling feet and constant trips to the bathroom .

It's hard for me to say what is right and what isn't, who are we to make that call.

 

[Xero]

I agree Mom2Many, who are we to say?

And then, what about a family like this?

Both of the parents in that family have a serious genetic defect, and it doesn't just affect their looks, it affects their health quite a bit. Its hard to say what kind of complications they will encounter during their lives, BUT they are a very happy family and they love their kids and I can't see denying those people of the right to have children... I guess in its own way, its wrong to have kids when you KNOW they'll probably end up in the same boat as you and its a bad thing, but I can't judge these people when I look at them.

 

[Mom2all]

My oldest is bi-polar and learning disabled, Vanna was born with one kidney, Colton has ADHD and I am overweight. Does that mean I am not entitled to children? Or that my childrens lives are less valuable?

I want to stress, I never once tried to suggest that anyone was not entitled to be a parent because a cild was born with a disability. NOR would I ever say any child was not VALUABLE. My oldest son had asthma, my youngest ADHD. I spend several days a week volunteering at a group home for adults with mental disabilites and have 2 grown up's that think I'm there Mom there. I love them. Not knowing that your going to have a child with a extreme medical condition is not anyones fault and that child is as valuable as any other. That being said..

At that very group home, there is a married couple. They can not take care of themselves. Literally, medicine, food, and shelter has to be handed to them. The man has an explosive temper and is violent with everyone but his wife. His wife mumbles constantly and could not carry on a conversation with a 4 year old. They have a baby. North Carolina State laws say that the group home can't prevent them from living as man and wife and having children. Although, the department of Social Services was at the hospital the day their son was born and took him in to foster care the hour he entered this world. That child is unavailable for adoption because his parents do go to every class, and continue going to court like they are supposed to. However.. they will never get him. AND he will never have a family of his own because they will always fight and keep it tied up. AND... they are trying to have another one. Their baby is 2, they have seen him like 10 times. All they want is to parent... but it doesn't mean they should. We've tried to talk to his Mom.. but she doesn't even know her name most days. She remembers his.. but can't wipe her own butt. He is VAUABLE... but now his life is screwed up forever.. and it was not his fault.

 

[mom2many]

M2A- I wasn't aiming that comment at you...your post never suggested that. It was a more in general point, aimed at lurkers and such.

Your story is sad, sad all around. I don't know what the right answer would be in that case...is there a right answer?

 

[Mom2all]

I don't think so. It's just sad. I have another friend determined to feel life in her.. and her doctor has said it will require her to end up with a heart transplant. She still keeps her fertility specialist apt. every month. I keep beggin her to love her future child enough to not carry and deliver it... but find them already not loved and stick around a while to watch um grow up~

 

[AmyBelle]

My mother had a heart defect and was told not to have children, she died in childbirth so I guess this is a difficult one for me. Do I wish that I had known my mother? Of course, without a doubt, I feel like I will never know a huge part of me not knowing her. Am I glad I exist? Of course.

My dad's take on it is that it was mum's choice, he says that he wishes that she was still alive, however he also says that he couldnt imagine life without me there.

I have an auto-immune disease. Ive known this and have been treated for it for quite a while, it effects females much more than it does males and it opens the gates for other diseases. Knowing this I had two children, both turned out to be girls, so time will only tell if they have what I have. If given the chance would I change that? God no. It might sound really selfish but the idea of me not having kids because of what they might get sounds silly to me.

Adoption is near impossible here. John and I tried, even if we had our own kids we really wanted to adopt, we thought that the government would see us as somewhat of an ideal family, both have upstanding jobs in the community, a police officer and a nurse, I was planning on being a SAHM, we have our own home in a lovely community, and have extended family on both sides to support us, yet we were deemed unfit due to financial reasons. At the time we had two car loans, and our payslips said that we dont earn enough to be 'fit' parents according to the government. In Australia there are no private agencies, everything is done through the government, so that was that, until we got higher paying jobs no adopting for us.

Its just not possible for everyone and some people just feel this need to have a child. It may be really selfish, and I knwo that my girls may end up getting very sick, but it was a chance I was willing to take to have children.

 

[singledad]

I think this is a difficult topic to make general statements about. It will depend on the specific circumstances of each family. Something like Astma need not be a huge problem anymore with modern medicine. Other things are a big deal. And in anycase, having a disability does not necessarily mean that you can't have a full and happy life. Our secretary at work has a boy he has Down's syndrome. They told her early in her pregnancy that the chances of her baby being born with it was very high, but she chose to go through with it and deliver him. Its easy to see how much joy he brings her, and the few times she's brought him to the office - he's the sweetest, happiest kid I've ever seen. Sure, he's now 12 years old and still acts and needs to be treated like a todler, but he's like a ray of sunshine! There is no way I can say that she should have terminated her pregnancy.

But speaking about your friend specifically - if there is one thing I feel very strongly about - it is that parents should consider whether or not they can be there for their child in the long run. If your friend is that obese... we can say what we want, but its a dangerous condition. Heart problems, diabetes, I think by now everyone knows of the health problems associated with extreme obesity. Say something happens to her - and the kids are left with a father who can't even take care of himself? What will become of them? I don't think that is fair to the kids. That is my opinion, anyway.

 

[Mom2all]

Our secretary at work has a boy he has Down's syndrome. They told her early in her pregnancy that the chances of her baby being born with it was very high, but she chose to go through with it and deliver him. Its easy to see how much joy he brings her, and the few times she's brought him to the office - he's the sweetest, happiest kid I've ever seen.

Oh I never meant to imply to use health concerns to terminate. My youngest son had the genetic markers fors Downs too. I even refused the last test to confirm or rule it out because they told me it was only to be able to chose to terminate. There was not a treatment for it so in my mind there was not a reason to use an invasive test. We did not know for sure that he was okay until he was 2 weeks old. We were prepared for the worst and hoped for the best. We would have blessed to know him ether way.

I guess my opinion would lean more toward those whom know before conception of the hardships that will most likely come. A mother with HIV for instance. Or the lady who had 6 infants and buried 5 before they were toddlers due to a genetic heart defect. Or a 50/50 chance of a severe mental disability. Or if our own health is such that the chance of being able to raise them is very small. At what stage in parenting do we start doing what is best for our children? Only after we get them into the world?

And then again.. I was fortunate that I only had to face that decision after I already had 2 healthy children. So perhaps for me it was in fact easier to decide that adoption would be a better choice. I don't know how I would have felt othewise.

 

[Father_0f_7]

No child should have to spend their days fighting for their lives. But when Billy was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes we were asking a lot of questions about how it happend. The doctor said that Type 1 is probably genetic and that it is a real possiblity that if Billy ever has children (he's only 9, so we arent really worrying about it right now) they could have it.

I know you're talking about serious defects but I dont think most people know how serious Diabetes is. Anyway, that's not what I wanted to talk about.

When the doctor told us that, I started looking up online about parents who had defects (muscular dystrophy mainly, dont ask, I dont know why I chose that) and they knew that their children could have it.

I thought the same thing "why would anyone put their child through that" but then I came across Mattie Stepanek. I'd heard of him before but didnt know that his mother also had MD, his brothers and sisters all died from it in early childhood.

And I remembered everything Mattie did for the country...the world and I thought maybe...just maybe everything happens for a reason, that children...even one's with birth defects are put on this world for a reason.

Anyway, my answer...yes it probably should be considered but at the same time, do what you feel is right in your heart.

aw, hell I dont know what I'm trying to say....ignore me.

 

[singledad]

I guess my opinion would lean more toward those whom know before conception of the hardships that will most likely come. A mother with HIV for instance. Or the lady who had 6 infants and buried 5 before they were toddlers due to a genetic heart defect. Or a 50/50 chance of a severe mental disability. Or if our own health is such that the chance of being able to raise them is very small. At what stage in parenting do we start doing what is best for our children? Only after we get them into the world?

I think we definitely need to start before we bring them into the world. Especially when you mention HIV, and I immediately think about the massive social crises we have here, with millions of children being orphaned by HIV, children's homes overflowing, kids surviving on the streets, families headed by 12 and 13 year old kids... All because people can't be bothered to think beyond the birth of the child.

But then - Fo6 also has a good point - sometimes children born with genetic disorders can mean so much to those around them, and to the world, that we can't help but think that there must be some reason for their existance...

I think there are two distinct issues here - one being having kids when there is a big chance of them being born with a disorder or a disability, and the other being having kids when there is a good chance that you won't be there to bring them up. On the former, I struggle to form an opinion. On the latter... well, the staggering amount of homeless kids I see everywhere has formed my opinion for me...

 

[16th ave.]

i tend to lean toward yes because of genetics. no sense in putting a soul through any pain if it can be prevented some of the things that are genetic are painful. its heartbreaking and you know the soul in that messed up body has to hurt somehow physically and mentally.