Spanking Teenagers...

[Scott]

I'm curious to hear what other parents' views are on spanking teenagers. I have two sons, ages 12 and 15. Although they're both generally well-behaved, even they need to be disciplined from time to time. This has usually involved grounding them or taking away privileges. However, I've come to realize that these kinds of measures don't always work so well. I think that in some instances a harsher punishment is called for.


So recently I've been pondering whether or not I should introduce spanking as another means of discipline to be used in certain circumstances. I've given it a good deal of consideration myself, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter as well.


Now I realize that spanking can be a controversial topic, especially when it comes to older children such as my own. Again, the ages of my sons are 12 and 15. So that's one teen and one preteen. Please let me know what your opinions are on this subject and whether you think there are situations where spanking teenagers can be acceptable. If you feel that gender is important, remember that both of my children are boys so please focus your responses on teenage boys rather than girls.

 

[cybele]

Im not a 'spanking parent' but I dont disgree with it in young children.

However, I feel that a 12yr old is really quite borderline, I dont think its an appropriate time to start, id say its the time to end it. 15, for me, out of the question no.

I think 12 and 15 are now at an age where you can have deeper level conversations, thsy can understand more complex ideas so I dont think there is reason to spank a teenager other than for power (which isnt right in ths first place)

 

[Scott]

Thanks for those thoughts, cybele. I realize that the ages are quite borderline, which is why I've given this so much consideration.


As far as having deeper conversations with them, I wholeheartedly agree. I think communicating with your teens and discussing things with them is one of the most effective ways of parenting them. But I guess what I was really asking about was an actual punishment. While a conversation is certainly a good starting point, I wouldn't consider it a substitute for, say, a grounding. I think some cases call for an actual consequence in addition to a good conversation.

 

[singledad]

I agree wholeheartedly with cybele re. them being too old for spanking, and especially too old to start now. My guess is that you'd only trigger more rebellion if you start spanking now.

Unfortunately you don't give examples of what you wish to punish them for, so its a bit difficult to really give suggestions for alternatives. Basically - if its just normal teenage stuff like neglecting chores, being disrespectful, missing curfew etc, I'd simply let them feel the natural consequences of their actions, of course, coupled with a discussion on exactly why you object to their behavior, what the consequences are, and what you expect from them instead...

Of course, if its more than average teenage stuff (I'm talking criminality, acting out in, or skipping school to the point where their school marks suffer, etc) I'd say some investigation is needed into why they do what they do. Solutions are always more effective if they address the cause, and not just the symptoms.

 

[mom2many]

They are at the age where there are other measures that can be used and be much more effective.

 

[Xero]

Absolutely not. Agree with the above.

 

[Scott]

Thanks for the opinions everyone.

if its just normal teenage stuff like neglecting chores, being disrespectful, missing curfew etc, I'd simply let them feel the natural consequences of their actions, of course, coupled with a discussion on exactly why you object to their behavior, what the consequences are, and what you expect from them instead...

Yes, I would say it is "normal teenage stuff" and not something more serious like criminal behavior. Problem is, I've tried exactly what you and others have suggested, i.e. verbally addressing the situation and allowing them to feel the natural consequences of their actions, and I haven't seen any improvement in behavior. I've told my son to be home at a certain time, addressed it with him when he hasn't, only to see the same thing happen again. I think part of the problem is that there really aren't any natural consequences to such behavior.


I just feel like I need assert myself more and show them who's in charge. I don't think spanking is a perfect solution, but I do think it would definitely shake things up and make a bold statement, unlike my past attempts. Whether it's ultimately effective only time will tell. But I feel like it's at least worth a shot.

 

[singledad]

I think part of the problem is that there really aren't any natural consequences to such behavior.

There aren't? So you can abuse freedom and trust and there are no consequences? You can abuse privileges and still keep them?

Dude, You need to think more laterally.

Unless your mind is made up, that is. And your last paragraph certainly makes it look like it is...

 

[Scott]

My mind isn't made up, that's why I'm here. But I will say I'm leaning more towards trying it than I had in the past.


And as far as misbehavior not having natural consequences, my point was that there's much less of a cause-and-effect between typical teen misbehavior and consequences vs. more serious/criminal behavior and its consequences. If a teen starts taking drugs, he can get addicted or spend time in jail. If he doesn't do his chores...well then the chores just don't get done. In cases like this, it falls on the parents to actually create consequences or else there won't be any.

 

[cybele]

When my kids leave dirty dishes around the house they find them on their beds. When they dont wash their clothes they go to school smelling and get picked on. When they dont clean their rooms mice wake them up in the middle of the night.

I really dont think spanking will get you anywhere, to start spanking a 15yr old, id say it would probably end in the 15yr old claiming abuse.

 

[momtoallkids]

we found another form of physical punishment that seems to work well with my son. we figured out that grounding didnt work and taking away privilages didnt matter all that much to him so now when he screws up hell get 20 push ups. we change it up too. sometimes its push ups sometimes its laps sometimes its situps ect. he hates it so he tries really hard not to mess up in school or back talk adults becasue he doesnt want to have to do them or do running. he likes it when its in a play capacity but doesnt when its punishment.

 

[Testing]

Im not a 'spanking parent' but I dont disgree with it in young children.

However, I feel that a 12yr old is really quite borderline, I dont think its an appropriate time to start, id say its the time to end it. 15, for me, out of the question no.

I think 12 and 15 are now at an age where you can have deeper level conversations, thsy can understand more complex ideas so I dont think there is reason to spank a teenager other than for power (which isnt right in ths first place)

Agree. Absolutely not. I have teens. It is merely a power struggle at that point.

My 13 year old is as large as his father anyway right now. At 15 he will tower over him and me. It would be an impossibility and very unwise to introduce anything like this at that age. By 15, the kid is starting to take the reins of his own life anyway. He has to WANT to do his chores because he loves you, not because you will physically battle him - and it will be a battle with a nearly grown young adult.

I don't like like the idea of "punishment". We are supposed to be bringing up and discipling children. I certainly haven't done this perfectly.

 

[NancyM]

I just feel like I need assert myself more and show them who's in charge. I don't think spanking is a perfect solution, but I do think it would definitely shake things up and make a bold statement, unlike my past attempts. Whether it's ultimately effective only time will tell. But I feel like it's at least worth a shot.

It seems like you've failed in past attempts to take normal parental control in your household. Do you really think it's going to help you by hitting them??
Maybe you should consider going to parenting classes or even therapy to help you learn new parenting skills, without having to hit your children into submission.

 

[parentastic]

I just feel like I need assert myself more and show them who's in charge.

I think this captures the essence of the problem, Scott.

The very fact you are considering the use of spanking on a 15 years old is a clear indication you are not in charge.
The spanking is not going to change this.

The real question is: why aren't you in charge? Why is your 15 years old not respecting you enough to <I>want</I> to listen to you in the first place?

I don't think spanking is a perfect solution, but I do think it would definitely shake things up and make a bold statement, unlike my past attempts. Whether it's ultimately effective only time will tell. But I feel like it's at least worth a shot.

You can take what I am about to write or you can trash it.
But trust me: it's not worth a shot: it's going to make things <U><I>massively</I></U> worse. What little chance of regaining respect you may have before you do this, it will be gone after this. Think long and hard about this.
How would you feel if someone would hit you? Would you respect that person more? or less?
This is how he will feel about you.

Then ask yourself: what will you do when he is tall and strong enough to fight back? What will you do then?

 

[Testing]

parentastic:
The real question is: why aren't you in charge? Why is your 15 years old not respecting you enough to <I>want</I> to listen to you in the first place?

Agree with your conclusion, as I indicate upthread, but how does one answer this question? I'd like to know too. Lots of parents are in this situation and I'm on forums where this is asked over and over. When this is the case -for whatever reason (and I'm sure the poster has some inkling of where failings are, as we all have) - what does one do?

 

[bssage]

I believe that some posters who would have us subscribe to their parenting. Would like to make us believe that a 15 yr old boy showing some rebellion is a lack of good parenting. That its not about a boy attempting to assert himself as a man. But rather a complete lack of respect of a bad parent. IMHO that is incorrect.

I have seen many excellent parents with more than one kid. One will respond and the other wont. IMHO its a natural set of events when a child becomes an adult. I would not question your parenting. Just by seeking out advice it shows your concern is a vested interest in their boys well being.

While I do believe the spanking ship has sailed at 15. I understand what the OP is trying to accomplish. I think at 15 for a spank to be effective it would have to be a heck of a spank. Now I know some school in Texas (was on TV) gives kids in that age group and option to be spanked with a paddle or serve a in school suspension. Whatever just throwing that out there.

I agree with illustrating the law of escalating consequences. And believe that is what your trying to accomplish. I think that is something I would rather my kids learn at home than at the hands of a court system or something else as significant.

I am sure it would require some out of the box thinking. My boy is younger 11teen. If the first offense is something that could have been a mistake or accident on his part I of course talk about the issue and get his side. And explain why I believe it warrants this type of attention. Then I just explain how subsequent offenses will be handled. Generally goes something like this.

happens again you lose video games for (time period) Again lose computer privileges, Tv, ect. Then things go away in order get rid of the xbox. ect. This behavior will not be tolerated and I will not lose this argument. Of course I would expect you to know what privalages are most effective for your boys

I think the spank is an option for the 12 yr old. But I dont see it being very effective.

I think most of the replies have been on the spot. Don't let someone tear you down to make their suggestion more valid. Use what you can and discard what you cant.

 

[parentastic]

Agree with your conclusion, as I indicate upthread, but how does one answer this question? I'd like to know too. Lots of parents are in this situation and I'm on forums where this is asked over and over. When this is the case -for whatever reason (and I'm sure the poster has some inkling of where failings are, as we all have) - what does one do?

The answer depends on your definitions for what "respect" means.
For some, respect and fear are the same. If this is the OP belief, then I cannot help him.

I am of the belief that real respect comes from admiration, a desire to emulate, and to speak in technical terms, the <I>attachment</I> that exists within the relationship. This is what, IMO, drives children to want to do as you so, be like you, speak like you, and pickup your habits.

In different words, I'd say that children can be <I>controlled </I>or <I>influenced</I>.
When they are born, a parent has tremendous influence over them, because the attachment bond is profound and untouched. It is in the very nature of the child's brain to <I>want</I> to do like the parent, to be influenced by the parent's examples. It is how the brain develops and matures.

When the child is born, a parent also has a tremendous power of control over a child. They decide of their life and death; their very needs for safety, food, water, warmth and attention and completely dependent on the parent.

However, as the child grow, two things happens.
1) They learn to attend to a part of their needs by themselves, they grow stronger, they become more independent and the power difference with their parents become less and less apparent. The parents are losing their power of coercion over their children as they grow, and that is <I>normal</I>.

2) Each time parents use their power to control the child, instead of influence the child, they lose a little bit of that influence they have. When the child is young, this is not only normal, but necessary. And you don't really need influence when you have power at first. But as time goes, the <I>attachment</I> relation becomes weaker. From secure, it switches to insecure/avoident or insecure/ambivalent (depending the kind of power that is used) and the child develops resentment and a feeling of unfairness, powerlessness and helplessness over his own life. This is especially true when physical punishment is used. The relationship erodes and the <I>influence</I> that the parents had evaporates. By the time the child reach adolescence, it may have reduced to a very, very low level. Hence, adolescent will rebel, join gangs as their own peers will have more <I>influence</I> over them than their own parents, and they may drop from school, flee from home, do drugs, crime, or any of these typical adolescent behaviors.

This is why, to my knowledge, any true solution that would want to address the problem at its root has to look at how to <I>restore</I> the quality and depth of the relationship with the child, in order to restore the <I>influence</I>.

Any use of power of coercion or force must be done with great care and minimized as much as possible, because otherwise, it will erode the last bits of influence you may have.

Please read this reference to learn more about this cycle:
Dr. Gordon Neufeld, "Hold on to your kids". See this brief clip from Dr Neufeld named "What makes a child easy to parent?" to have an idea of the content of his book.

I believe that some posters who would have us subscribe to their parenting. Would like to make us believe that a 15 yr old boy showing some rebellion is a lack of good parenting.

I don't know where you read anything about "bad parenting" in my writing above, bssage. If you have precise accusations to make, make them clearly. Otherwise, I'd appreciate if you'd refrain from attacking me or my writing.

 

[Incogneato]

I don't know where you read anything about "bad parenting" in my writing above, bssage. If you have precise accusations to make, make them clearly. Otherwise, I'd appreciate if you'd refrain from attacking me or my writing.

I can't speak for bssage, but I can tell you that you may not have specifically said "you're a bad parent", but to me it would be implied by the way you phrased the two statements below.

The real question is: why aren't you in charge? Why is your 15 years old not respecting you enough to want to listen to you in the first place?



What little chance of regaining respect you may have before you do this, it will be gone after this.

With the first it would seem like you are saying that the "real" question... meaning you think that any other question he had was not real, or irrelevant, as to you, the obvious problem is that he doesn't have the respect of his kids as this point (thereby indicating you think there is a lack of previous good parenting skills, else that respect would already be there and this thread would be irrelevent). Reading it this way could obviously be seen as an attack on his parenting skills (AKA, a bad parent). It isn't so much what you say, as in how you say it, parentastic.

What if you were to rephrase the statement to:

"Your child is not currently showing you a proper level of respect that is due to a parent. There are ways you can go about gaining that respect and re-establishing your authority so that you may gain the control you need without resorting to spanking them at this stage in their life"

?

And when you say "What little chance" of regaining respect you "may" have, it seems to indicate that he's messed up so bad there is little chance of recovery at this point.

Seems a pretty rude way to phrase things to me so I can clearly see how bssage or others might interpret your statements as akin to calling him a "bad parent".

 

[parentastic]

What if you were to rephrase the statement to:

"Your child is not currently showing you a proper level of respect that is due to a parent. There are ways you can go about gaining that respect and re-establishing your authority so that you may gain the control you need without resorting to spanking them at this stage in their life"

Point taken, this way to phrase it is indeed much better &amp; also reflect more accurately what I meant. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Incogneato]

I'm curious to hear what other parents' views are on spanking teenagers. I have two sons, ages 12 and 15. Although they're both generally well-behaved, even they need to be disciplined from time to time. This has usually involved grounding them or taking away privileges. However, I've come to realize that these kinds of measures don't always work so well. I think that in some instances a harsher punishment is called for.


So recently I've been pondering whether or not I should introduce spanking as another means of discipline to be used in certain circumstances. I've given it a good deal of consideration myself, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter as well.

I realized I forgot to comment on the actual subject at hand, so here we go.

I would say that 12+ is a bad time to begin spanking a child. At this age, many children have a much better understanding of consequences of their actions and in my opinion need a different form of discipline than spanking. I'm not saying it hasn't worked for other people who have spanked their kids into their teens, and all children are different, and they have unique personalities. Some punishments work for some kids, and others won't. Knowing this, it's hard to say what I would do in your situation with your kids since I don't know them at all or how they react to different punishments. It is actually hard to even put an exact age to when to stop spanking because honestly, I think it also has a lot to do with their maturity level, which develops at different speeds for different kids.


I would appreciate any clarification on specifics of what types of punishment you've used and how you've used them.

For instance, you mentioned that you ground and take away privelages... but could you be more specific in what privelages you take away and for how long?

You said in a previous post that you address the issue of your son not coming home on time, but what were the consequences the first time he did this, and then what happened once it was repeated?