I saw this topic on another thread and thought it deserved a thread of it's own. First what does it mean for a wive to be submissive to her husband? Second do you believe in it? I was raised this way but find it very unfair to the woman to have to go along with every decision the man makes even if she doesn't agree with it. I also think that our Savior treated women equally to men. There are no instances in the bible that I can recall that state any differently. If we were meant to be mindless servants then why did he give us independant thought? I understand that Eve brought down submissiveness on womankind when she ate the forbidden fruit but didn't our Savior die for everyones sins, even womens?
To be or not to be submissive...
- Thread starter gr8mom
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I am of the Missouri Synod where women are submissive to men. Does that mean my husband throws me around and tells me what to do? No. I'm very conservative in that I do all the cooking, cleaning, paying for the bills, house upkeep, scheduling of doctor/dentist appointments, etc. My husband never once got up with Oliver when he was an infant. Do I have a hard time with that, certainly. But only because today's society makes it so hard, if not impossible, to be completely submissive.
As I said on another thread: My mother raised me to be a strong and self-sufficient woman.
I believe that ultimately I am responsible for my own actions and I choose to be proactive in that responsibility. As Dh said, I enjoy an equal partnership.
I believe that ultimately I am responsible for my own actions and I choose to be proactive in that responsibility. As Dh said, I enjoy an equal partnership.
My husband seems to be torn between the two. He doesn't want a wife who looks to him for all the answers he wants one who can think for herself and take care of things by herself but at the same time he doesn't want me to work a job and thinks I should do all the housework and caring for the children.
It would take all the strength I had to allow someone else to always have the final say, so I can see your point.Lissa said:
I think I am just having a hard time with the concept because I just was not raised that way. This should be in interesting discussion.
I'm sorry to hear that. I do believe there is a benefit in having a stay at home mom as oppossed to sending them to day care. We would do that if we had the financial ability to do so. Once they are in school then it is not only healthy for you to get out of the house to be with other adults, but the extra money doesn't hurt either.gr8mom said:
I do however think that no matter how many hours a week he works when he is home he shares an equal amount of responsibility for the kids.
I just can't even imagine...I make all of my own decisions and the only things we decide jointly are things involving where we live and the baby. We buy what we want to and do what we want to and the understanding is that we always need to have enough time for family. I breast feed so I do the feeding he does the diapering and we both get up with the baby.
In addition to and aside from religeous reasons, there are many people that choose a submissive/dominant lifestyle. I think it really does come down to personal choice and how a person feels more comfortable living their lives.
I never said it made you weak.Lissa said:
I do have to say though (and I'm not making fun) but a "submissive independent wife" sounds like an Oxymoron to me
I posted thins on another thread, I think it applies here too...
Submission does not indicate inferiority. It means you are equal, but you choose to serve. I choose to serve, for reasons that are not at all religious, and I still feel very strong, capable, and independent. I am a woman, and that in itself makes me strong enough to take care of my family and my husband. I serve because I am depended on, and I am proud of that. I serve because I know I am appreciated and loved and my efforts are not taken for granted. I serve my family, and in so doing serve myself. By putting myself last, I put myself first.
I am a not-so-humble servant to my husband and my children. It does not make me lesser, it makes me more.
Submission does not indicate inferiority. It means you are equal, but you choose to serve. I choose to serve, for reasons that are not at all religious, and I still feel very strong, capable, and independent. I am a woman, and that in itself makes me strong enough to take care of my family and my husband. I serve because I am depended on, and I am proud of that. I serve because I know I am appreciated and loved and my efforts are not taken for granted. I serve my family, and in so doing serve myself. By putting myself last, I put myself first.
I am a not-so-humble servant to my husband and my children. It does not make me lesser, it makes me more.
I like the way you put htis. I also am more submissive in the sense that I do the cleaning (well 90% of it) I take care of Nichole, however now that she is older he helps out more. He will take her to the bathroom to go potty (now if I cna get him to remember to wash her hands lol), he will feed her dinner if I am at church and for whatever reason i couldn't take her with (her being sick or whatever). But I'll tell you that he does work very hard during the nights (works from 12am till anywhere between 11 and 3 in the afternoon) so on his work days he pretty much sleeps all day. He can be an ARSE sometimes when it comes to things like getting her ready to go, he is more then capable to put her shoes on as well as I. lolivybendorf said:
Ok, I've thought a lot about how to respond to this, so I'll just throw it out there.
Women have proven time and again from Biblical days that they cannot make decisions above man or against man's wishes and have them blessed. Women are more often led into spiritual error than men. We are more intuitive, but we need men's logic to balance us out. And when a woman rejects authority, it leaves us open to every false teacher out there.
Just a few examples....
Jeremiah 44 - Tells of the Israelites in Egypt. The women had started burning incense to other gods, thus leading their men into idolatry.
The story of Sarah and Abraham....She tried to solve the problem of her barrenness herself, despite the promise from God. Her actions of giving Hagar to Abram led to years and years of conflict between Arabs and Jews.
Now....it is no shame or no dishonor to be under authority. Jesus Christ himself is under authority of God. It also has nothing to do with a person's worth to God. He is not a respector of persons. He hears us females just as soon as he hears the men. Men can't feel "superior" because of this....
"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the women; but the woman for the man....Nevertheless [lest a husband should strut himself unduly] neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God."
That being said, I do not view myself as weak, or inferior to my husband. We respectfully agree on things, but should he disagree and think it should be done this way, then I go his way. He is the head of my household. He makes the final decisions. And really, if your household is as it should be, then you and your spouse should be in agreement about nearly everything. Of course we have disagreements...but for the most part, we're in synch with each other.
Do I have a problem with worrying about him making the wrong decision when we don't agree? No. Because I know that he will be the one, as the spiritual head of the household, to take responsiblity in that.
Anyway. I really don't know if I made a lot of sense, and I know some of you don't believe the Bible like I do, or whatever, and I really don't wish to offend anyone. That's just my beliefs.
Women have proven time and again from Biblical days that they cannot make decisions above man or against man's wishes and have them blessed. Women are more often led into spiritual error than men. We are more intuitive, but we need men's logic to balance us out. And when a woman rejects authority, it leaves us open to every false teacher out there.
Just a few examples....
Jeremiah 44 - Tells of the Israelites in Egypt. The women had started burning incense to other gods, thus leading their men into idolatry.
The story of Sarah and Abraham....She tried to solve the problem of her barrenness herself, despite the promise from God. Her actions of giving Hagar to Abram led to years and years of conflict between Arabs and Jews.
Now....it is no shame or no dishonor to be under authority. Jesus Christ himself is under authority of God. It also has nothing to do with a person's worth to God. He is not a respector of persons. He hears us females just as soon as he hears the men. Men can't feel "superior" because of this....
"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the women; but the woman for the man....Nevertheless [lest a husband should strut himself unduly] neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God."
That being said, I do not view myself as weak, or inferior to my husband. We respectfully agree on things, but should he disagree and think it should be done this way, then I go his way. He is the head of my household. He makes the final decisions. And really, if your household is as it should be, then you and your spouse should be in agreement about nearly everything. Of course we have disagreements...but for the most part, we're in synch with each other.
Do I have a problem with worrying about him making the wrong decision when we don't agree? No. Because I know that he will be the one, as the spiritual head of the household, to take responsiblity in that.
Anyway. I really don't know if I made a lot of sense, and I know some of you don't believe the Bible like I do, or whatever, and I really don't wish to offend anyone. That's just my beliefs.
I think women can handle their spiritual decisions alone just fine. I'm sorry, I just can't figure how a book written two thousand years ago and authored solely by men following a male god can have an accurate portrayal of the female species.
FINALLY! I've been reading and reading this thread and others and i knew exactly what i wanted to put but i wanted to wait to see if someone shared that view. The bible was written by men! If htey say that women are inferior, or that we have to submit ourselves to our husbands we are to do that? No thanks...ivybendorf said: