Would you have done the same?...

Gillybean129

Junior Member
Sep 22, 2008
2
0
0
My daughter was bitten at school last week by a girl who is generally bad behaved and also has been name calling my daughter.

My daughter reported this incident and as a result the girl was excluded from school after we telephoned to express our concerns about this incident.

The repercussions are that my daughter is getting comments like 'why did you snitch' and 'my parents would have just laughed at that'.

Surely this is a physical assault and should be dealt with as such. It's just my daughter may now be suffering the consequences.:(
 

Dadu2004

PF Visionary
May 16, 2008
7,272
0
0
45
Cleveland, OH
That's typical kids I would guess. However, your daughter did the right thing. Keep encouraging her that she did the right thing and to always report dangerous behavior like that.
 

Xero

PF Deity
Mar 20, 2008
15,219
1
0
36
PA
If it keeps up and the school does nothing I would go to the police. It's called harassment. Who cares how old they are. I don't understand why parents/teachers tolerate bullies the way they do. They always have. They think "It's part of life. It's how kids are." I will forever be scarred by the torment I endured in school, including gradeschool. Adults belittle it, and for children it hurts. Eventually it eats away at your self esteem and even your personality. I know it's just small things now, but who knows what will be next. I will never have any lenience towards bullying to my child.
 

Sirk

Your Forum Mom
Apr 1, 2008
1,964
0
0
I feel bad for the kids who's parents would have laughed if they were hurt. I'm sure your daughter knows you love her than those parents do.
 

BentMonk

PF Enthusiast
Nov 7, 2008
188
0
0
54
Louisville, KY
Once upon a time many years ago, bullies used to get punched in the nose. This taught the bully not to be a bully, and the bullied to stand up for themselves. The puncher nor the bully told a grown up, because you don't snitch. The situation was handled. End of problem.

Now thanks to Oprah, Dr. Phil, and so called modern parenting we make entire mountain ranges out of the tiniest ant hill problems in our kid's lives.
Now kids won't punch a bully because they are taught to talk about every problem they encounter. This gives the bully even more power. Then if a kid does knock a bully on their butt, the kid is in trouble because of some asinine zero tolerance policy. Then the parents of the bully and the bullied show up at school demanding that their respective kids needs and uniqueness be catered to. Then the adults get into a huge self centered convoluted argument, and end up more concerned about being right, instead of helping the kids.

The kids in the meantime, are getting a ton of mixed signals.

The bullied are told not to defend themselves, but try and figure out why the other person wants to bully them, and see if they can change their own behavior or, talk the bully into not being a bully. If that doesn't work, run and tell the nearest adult to save you. So what's the kid supposed to do when he gets punched again in mid-sentence of trying to have a meaningful dialogue with his bully? What if there is no adult to run to? After being rescued from the bully the bullied are told that they now have post traumatic stress disorder as a result of their ordeal, but some therapy and this prescription will help with that.

The bully is not told he's a jerk and he needs to quit acting like that before someone kicks his butt for him. Instead he is put into therapy where he is told there's nothing wrong with him, he's just expressing himself in ways that others find difficult to understand. Along with this positive reinforcement, the bully is given a prescription to help him better cope with the stress and anxiety of being a bully, er...I mean kid.

Now we've got medicated, issue laden kids. They've learned no real independent coping skills, or anything about natural consequences. Since the bullied are made to feel even more powerless by these circumstances, they become an even more attractive target for bullies. This cycle continues until one day they reach a point where they can't take it any more. Then we have suicides, gun violence, or whatever extreme measure the kid decides to go to in order to feel like he's handled the situation on his own.

My kids are taught to ignore verbal bully BS entirely. My ten year old had a blast doing this because the ignoring annoyed the heck out of the bully. Eventually the kid got frustrated and left my son alone. If someone takes their personal property, my children have my permission to recover their property by any means necessary, within reason. We have discussed what within reason means. They face serious consequences for going overboard or not getting an adult if the situation escalates. If someone physically assaults them, my children have my permission and encouragement to respond in kind. Again, we have had many discussions on what it means to go too far even if you are in the right. My children face very serious consequences if they are ever the bully or the starter of a fight. However, regardless of the consequences they receive at school, my children will never be punished in their home for refusing to be a victim, and handling their problems independently.

I'm not encouraging a free for all on the playground. I just don't feel that we give our kids enough chances to grow and mature by handling conflicts on their own. Obviously if a situation escalates, we as parents need to become involved. That involvement should be minimal and help, not hinder the growth of the kids.

How to handle a bully is only one of many common childhood experiences that so called modern parenting has gotten wrong. In my opinion the adults who grew from generations where there wasn't a diagnosis for every problem and a pill to fix it, are stronger and better equipped to handle struggle and adversity than our current generations are going to be. We have gotten so focused on teaching children how unique and special they are, that we've forgotten to teach them how to be a part of a society. All prosperous societies realize that "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one." Society today is telling kids that their uniqueness and their personal needs and wants are what is most important.

I am proud to have been raised by an old school parent. I call her all the time and thank her for being the meanest Mom in the world. I am proud to be an old school Dad. I spanked, I yell, I curse, I ground, I ask questions and demand more than one word answers. My kids are happy, strong, self sufficient, relatively issue free people that will not be helpless victims in life.

This turned into a bit of a rant, but I feel strongly about how poorly kids are being taught to handle things. I guess my answer to the OP is, no I would not have done the same. My daughter would have hit the girl and told her that's what she gets for biting. If the problem escalated after that, then my daughter would go get a teacher. The fact that my daughter tried to handle the situation herself would have kept the other kids from calling her a snitch, since she only got the teacher because the bully escalated the issue. Either way, the bully knows that biting my daughter is not a good idea. However, by trying to handle things herself my daughter gains the respect of her classmates and possibly the bully, instead of being ridiculed as a snitch. I'd rather have my daughter in trouble with the principal but feared by a bully and respected by her peers, than for her to be a powerless victim.

I don't expect many people to agree with my stance on this issue. To the OP, please do not take this post as a personal affront to your parenting choices. That is not how I meant it.

Would I do the same? No.
 

mom2many

Super Moderator
Jul 3, 2008
7,542
0
0
51
melba, Idaho
Bent Monk I somewhat agree with your stance, and on a lot of levels agree with you, her comes the but......the question was posed of a child who has been having issues, on a repetative level (and they are only 4) and the biting was the final straw. I would have said something on the biting also, it is a HUGE pet peeve of mine, because of germs and everything else the mouth can carry. And here is where a child can learn another one of our life lessons.

Here is to the actual question posed, tell you DD that soon enough some other child will do something and they will move onto him/her, that sometimes doing the right thing doesn't always feel so good, and that's ok, she knows she did the right thing and that is the only person who's opinion should matter.

It will blow over and kids just love to rub the 'snitch' word in each others faces.
 

BentMonk

PF Enthusiast
Nov 7, 2008
188
0
0
54
Louisville, KY
I didn't see in the OP that the kids involved were only four. I also assumed we were talking about older kids since this is the Adolescence/Puberty section of the forum. Biting is a big one for me too, for the same reasons you mentioned. Regardless of age, I still think it's important to teach kids that they do not have to be a victim, they can handle things on their own, and sometimes the first best option is not to run and tattle. Thanks for agreeing with most of what I had to say. lol :D
 

Xero

PF Deity
Mar 20, 2008
15,219
1
0
36
PA
I totally agree. Your post rocked bentmonk. Seriously, that's awesome. I can't even describe to you how much I agree with the hatred you have for the new take on parenting these days. Its turning the newer generations into a very unlikeable bunch.
 

mom2many

Super Moderator
Jul 3, 2008
7,542
0
0
51
melba, Idaho
BentMonk said:
I didn't see in the OP that the kids involved were only four. I also assumed we were talking about older kids since this is the Adolescence/Puberty section of the forum. Biting is a big one for me too, for the same reasons you mentioned. Regardless of age, I still think it's important to teach kids that they do not have to be a victim, they can handle things on their own, and sometimes the first best option is not to run and tattle. Thanks for agreeing with most of what I had to say. lol :D

Okay, know I am confused, I didn't look in the catagory and I think I looked at the age of Dadu's child :confused: . So what I say is how I would have handled it but after about 5-6 I try to let them handle it on thier own. But if persistant then I step in so that they also learn I am on thier side.
 

BentMonk

PF Enthusiast
Nov 7, 2008
188
0
0
54
Louisville, KY
Xero said:
I totally agree. Your post rocked bentmonk. Seriously, that's awesome. I can't even describe to you how much I agree with the hatred you have for the new take on parenting these days. Its turning the newer generations into a very unlikeable bunch.
Thanks. I'm glad to know I'm not such a minority. :D
 

bssage

Super Moderator
Oct 20, 2008
6,536
0
0
58
Iowa
While a agree with teaching your child not to be a victim. I dont think striking back should always be your first recourse. I did not say never, just not always.

First there are times when as a child and as a adult were you should always find an alternant course of action. Boys should not strike girls, never strike a special needs child. I have also seen small children picking on much larger older children. You cant just hall off and punch a smaller younger kid Also some kids may just be having other issues (a bad day or play taken a little to far). Given a little time would opologize on thier own accord.

If the child in question is clearly a "bully" or even just trying to make your child a victim then I agree and I would take it a step further saying a punch to the face is as good for the bully as it is the would be victim (Actually gut punches are very underated). I would much rather my son learn his lesson from another kid than learn it later by someone who could do real dammage.

to answer the OP. I dont think we have enough information to make an informed answer.

Given the information we do have. Let her know she did the OK (no regrets) but educate her on what is accepteble limits to correcting the situation on her own(As in Monks post). Her first choice of action need to involve some descision making. different situations may require a different action.

The standard used to be clearly different as an adult. But I see daily. High school kids getting charged with assault in school. And its not just the assaulter charged its both kids. The scarry thing is this is where you are supposed to learn when to fight or not to fight. Now these arrests could effect jobs, College, ect. Again i dont agree with it. But its there in the paper every day.

Bryan
 

bssage

Super Moderator
Oct 20, 2008
6,536
0
0
58
Iowa
One more log on the fire.

I travel to Chi town every other day. I read the papers there and got thinking about this on the way home last trip.

You have to keep in mind especially for early teens. Gangs and guns. "in the old days" a fight was a fight. Now they can easilly esculate into a situation of major concquence.

There are times now, when the prudent thing is not to try and recover a $50 mp3 player or even defend you honor.

I am not excluding this in rural areas. It just seems to be less prevaliant.

My boy is a yellow going on orange belt in karate. Is that going to help him when he is out numbered or out gunned? No.

I think the MOST important thing is to be able to read a situation and make wise decisions. At work we call it situational awareness.

I just dont think I want my kid believing that he needs to recover his property or defend his honor with watever means nessasary or he will be in trouble with me.

If I am not there he's got to understand he needs to make a thinking decision and that I will be happier with him using good judgment than a black eye on the bully.

I am not saying "dont fight back" I am saying use your head first.

Bryan
 

Pinkbook

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2008
28
0
0
Xero said:
I totally agree. Your post rocked bentmonk. Seriously, that's awesome. I can't even describe to you how much I agree with the hatred you have for the new take on parenting these days. Its turning the newer generations into a very unlikeable bunch.
I second this. I worked with a lot of parents and kids and this generation makes me afraid of the future.