You're in America Buddy, learn to speak English...

[Xero]

chikygrl - I'm surprised to hear a lot of that. That really has to be like, concentrated in your area because I've never seen anything like that. I've been to several different states, although all on the east side of the US, and the closest I've ever come to seeing Spanish playing a part in culture would be directions in my computer/vacuum/toy box haha. Or on my package of diapers, underneath the english. I also couldn't find a spanish radio station on my radio if I tried, or a spanish TV channel.I would have to say that if you didn't like that kind of thing (spanish being everywhere you look or listen) then that might not be the place for you to live. But that's just what comes to my mind.

Also, I'm amazed to hear that 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation kids don't speak english. There are actually a suprising amount of immigrants living around here, mainly due to the field work associated with the huge abundance of grapes around here (I live in grape country, lol). They work picking the grapes and whatnot, for really cheap as far as I hear. I see them around, but not a ton. I know there are a lot of them though. I have known some of their kids and stuff though, and every second generation I've met has been able to speak english, if at worst with an accent.

I think its just your area, I imagine there must be large concentrated areas of spanish speaking people, and in that case I don't think that kind of thing can be helped. Because you would NEVER see any teacher teaching any class but spanish, in spanish around here haha. So if you really dislike it, maybe you're in the wrong place? :S

 

[family1113]

That comment was definitely uncalled for but I feel like chikygrl13 has a good point. If your in America, you should definitely assimilate a bit into American culture. The one thing that annoys me the most is when someone of a different culture acts like America isn't good enough for them (always complaining) but then lives here -_-

 

[stjohnjulie]

I think I need to give a little more info.... First of all this was one of the OWNERS, not an employee, who said this. And they aren't part of chain or franchise, they are an independent hardware store.

And IADad, you hit it, they are the only hardware store on island. We do have a lumberyard, and they have some hardware, but you have to go to this hardware store out of necessity.

That brings me to the other hard part...they can ban you from it. Not being able to shop there would be really tough since the only other option would to be to go to another island. As much as I wanted to say "hey, that was rude" I just couldn't. My husband is an electrician and builder and NEEDS to shop there in order to do his job. I cannot get 'blacklisted' by them.

Where I live, we have a lot of immigrants from neighboring islands, and a lot of people like me, state-side transplants. In fact, the owners of the hardware store are state-side transplants. We see a lot of people from Haiti and the Dominican Republic on St. John. They come here to work and send money back home to their families where there is little to no opportunity to climb out of poverty. They have the opportunity for work because they will take far less pay. We created the demand for them to be here. You build a fancy villa and you want to get it done for as little as possibly so you hire the people who will work for less.

I don't know anything about the guy. My impression of him was he was very polite and humble. All smiles, relaxed body posture, etc. He did not say anything to her other than "No English". So he wasn't asking her to know his language, and he came prepared with an example of what he wanted to buy. Since she knew he didn't understand her, it just makes me wonder who the hell her comments were directed at. It was said loudly, so I can only guess she was talking to the rest of us in the store.

I guess what I have a real problem with is the intolerance. She must deal with people who can't speak English on a daily basis, but that is the kind of business she has. So what does she expect? Maybe if the contractors would be willing to pay a living wage they would have English speaking employees. So I just think she is barking up the wrong tree.

And another thing, this is what the lack of competition can breed. Huge product mark ups, disrespectful treatment, and the lack of any kind of recourse for the customers. I'd also like to say that my husband wanted me to delete this post because he is afraid that they might see it. Like I said, he NEEDS to shop there!

Oh, and one more thing, the culture here is West Indian, and although they speak English, it's not an American style English. It's heavily accented and structured differently. I had a hard time understanding it when I moved here. So much so that I was afraid to get a job where I was dealing with the public. I mostly understand it now, but even after 11 years of living here, I have a hard time understanding a heavy West Indian accent. I have a little West Indian accent myself, but none of the people who own the hardware store do, and they have been here a lot longer than I have. They have made no attempt to blend with this culture, so why do they expect it of others?

 

[IADad]

It's too bad your husband has to live in fear of the shop bully...I'm guessing the shop keeper would have no trouble tolerating another language if a large amount of business came with it...You'd kinda like to set her up, you know bring in somebody to act the part of a "foreigner" and when she rebuffs them have them declare that they were looking for someone to supply good for their multi-million dollar project, but i guess they'll just have to get stuff shipped in...that'd be fun.

 

[chikygrl13]

I work in Los Angeles, the San Fernando Valley to be exact. It's LA, which like most of Southern California has a HUGE immigrant population. I get businesses trying to advertise to Spanish speakers (also seen signs in Korean).

But again, my biggest problem is my students. I teach 7th grade History in the Los Angeles Unified School District. Roughly 98% of my students are labled as "English Language Learners". 99% of those students speak Spanish.

I have 127 students this year. I have 12 students who were NOT born in the US. I have 4 students from Armenia, who speak perfect English. 2 from Korea, who are practically fluent and 1 from Fiji (really!) and 1 from the Canary Islands. The remaining FOUR students were born in Mexico and speak very little English. That's fine, they've only been here a short while.
What about the other 115 students who were BORN here, many of their parents were BORN here and still they speak
little to NO English!!

This is what frustrates me!

And yes, I have been priviledged enough to study in Europe. But I WORKED MY ASS OFF to get there! Yeah, I have 2 Master's Degrees (one in History, one in Education). But I got scholarships and Financial Aid. I grew up oldest of 5, single mother, deadbeat dad and on food stamps.
It doesn't matter where I came from. What matters is where I am, and what I had to do to get here!

 

[stjohnjulie]

IADad, this kind of 'bullying' is not isolated to the hardware store. All of our stores are independent stores and many of them are the only one of it's kind on island. And if they do have competition, it's not total competition because one store will have something that all the others don't. Living on such a small island is a real lesson in eating humble pie.

I was just thinking, the non-verbal communication this customer used is the sort I've used in there all the time. I will wander in, looking lost, with a random part in my hand. I'll hold it up and they know what I need. I'm worried that I might have to learn how to talk 'hardware' to shop in there!!! I don't know if I can learn 'hardware' at this point in my life!

 

[IADad]

IADad, this kind of 'bullying' is not isolated to the hardware store. All of our stores are independent stores and many of them are the only one of it's kind on island. And if they do have competition, it's not total competition because one store will have something that all the others don't. Living on such a small island is a real lesson in eating humble pie.

I was just thinking, the non-verbal communication this customer used is the sort I've used in there all the time. I will wander in, looking lost, with a random part in my hand. I'll hold it up and they know what I need. I'm worried that I might have to learn how to talk 'hardware' to shop in there!!! I don't know if I can learn 'hardware' at this point in my life!

"Hey buddy, learn to speak hardware!" LOL!!!

It's funny because hardware really is it's own language, complete with dialects...what one guy calls a "union" andothercalls a "connector" or a "joint"...is a "spnner" and a "wrench" really the same thing? and sometimes you get penalized for not speaking the right hardware dialect..."you idiot, that's not a flange..."

sounds like your island is a lot like any small town. I see a lot of similarities to small town life, other than in most locales, if you get treated poorly in one town, there's another not all that far away to go to....

 

[stjohnjulie]

Yup, island life and small town life are similar. It's like a small town surrounded by a gigantic moat

I have shop on the internet A LOT. I can avoid some rude owners, but not all. I just have to wait for things and deal with the Post Office. The PO is a whole other ball of wax. These people are tough! Some of them are among the rudest people I've ever met but I have to deal with them because there is no other option. I've spent the last 11 years kissing a lot of ass and bribing with cookies and candy, so we are 'all good' now.

 

[islakermom]

My father was a WWII vet, he was very intolerable of people that came to America and didn't learn the language, he always said if you go to any other country you are expected to learn their language, not vice versa, although we know that other countries are pretty good at speaking english, so, really there is no need for rudeness, but I do agree with chikygrl13 that all classes in america should be taught strictly in English, our schools offer english classes for all non english speaking students so they can learn our language and succeed in school. No excuse not to succeed in an American school.

 

[Jeremy+3]

It happens a lot here too, people just assume you cannot speak english if you have a welsh accent, even though only like 20% of welsh people don't speak english. However I do find it amusing that I am yet to go abroad and witness an english person speaking anything other than english, then again those sort of people are normally the most ignorant members of society.

 

[Chalula]

I guess the guy should get an english speaking person to do his hardware shopping from now on.

 

[superman]

overdramatic

 

[Mindy]

Hello there!

Well it's been a long time since I posted here! So long I had to reset my password cuz I couldn't remember it

While I can see both sides of this argument, I guess I just don't understand why someone "has" to learn another language, regardless of where they live. It's not the law, it's a personal choice. If immigrants living in America speak Spanish, and they can get by without English, I don't see why they should have to learn something they don't want to (although as a trilingual person I very much agree that the more languages you know, the better) Obviously if it was that hard for Spanish americans to get by without English, they would learn it.

That is why I see it as pretty righteous when people think you need to speak English to be in America. Why don't Americans have to speak Spanish? Because that is their choice, and they prefer English.

 

[Cop2be]

I agree she shouldn't have been so rude but at the same time, this is an english speaking country. We are America are losing our identity, we need to maintain that.

I have a lot of tolerance for people.
Just the other day a deaf woman came into the store. Tried to talk to me and almost left because at first I couldn't understand what she was trying to say. Finally with a few hand gestures I was able to get her to hold put till I could write something down and we communicated that way.

I know SOME sign language but only the alphabet and can get by using that...

I plan on becoming fluent in sign language and spanish.

 

[stjohnjulie]

I guess the way I feel about it is:
A. It's really rude
B. That guy's money was just as good as my money, and she is running a business after all.
C. We, as American's, created this problem. If we didn't always want something for less, we wouldn't have a pile of immigrants here (speaking of my location specifically). They work for less and take all of the jobs that the US citizens don't want.

Plus, it really bothers me that she said it because she knew that he wouldn't understand what she was saying and the comment had to be directed at all of the other people in the store. I mean, the guy laughed a little, smiled, nodded his head up and down, and had no idea that she was being mean. Why did she want the rest of us to know she is mean? She can think whatever she wants, but that is just one of those things you are supposed to say on the 'inside'.

Makes me feel stupid to go in there with a part and say 'got one of these thingies?' She is intolerant of his ignorance, so is she intolerant of my ignorance as well?

How does that bumper sticker go??? "Mean People Suck"

 

[Veelana]

I totally agree that this wasn't what you'd hope for in a shopkeeper...

BUT I actually have the same problem, just reversed. I live in Vienna and I often have to revert to sign language and pointing when I want to ask the girls who work at the supermarket because they speak only turkish or serbian. I think you should make an attempt to learn the language of the country you're in - but I have NOTHING against bilingual education!

I plan to send my son to a bilingual school (english/german) because I think that it is important to speak at least two languages (I speak english as a second language and I can get by in italian as long as people speak slowly and clearly or in writing, my Latin is meager but I can read Netherlandsk easily).
I think the fact that a lot of kids a bi- or trilingual is great - as long as the language of the country you live in is one of them!

That said - if you just visit a country nobody can really expect you to speak the country's language. And who said that the guy wasn't on vacation, or there for the very first day?

 

[Veelana]

sorry for the double post!

 

[IADad]

I totally agree that this wasn't what you'd hope for in a shopkeeper...

BUT I actually have the same problem, just reversed. I live in Vienna and I often have to revert to sign language and pointing when I want to ask the girls who work at the supermarket because they speak only turkish or serbian. I think you should make an attempt to learn the language of the country you're in - but I have NOTHING against bilingual education!

I plan to send my son to a bilingual school (english/german) because I think that it is important to speak at least two languages (I speak english as a second language and I can get by in italian as long as people speak slowly and clearly or in writing, my Latin is meager but I can read Netherlandsk easily).
I think the fact that a lot of kids a bi- or trilingual is great - as long as the language of the country you live in is one of them!

That said - if you just visit a country nobody can really expect you to speak the country's language. And who said that the guy wasn't on vacation, or there for the very first day?

wow, that's kind of crazy, that the people hired in the service sector don't speak the predominate languages...I guess americans aren't the only one's who want cheap goods and services.

The example I cited earlier came the day after I visited your city. It was in Salzburg. Vienna was very pretty, too bad we were there on a Monday and all the cultural stuff was closed down. If I ever won the lottery, I'd like to go to Austria, and stay for a year, such a lovely and friendly country.

 

[Veelana]

Let me know if you come - I'll show you around

 

[IADad]

Let me know if you come - I'll show you around

alright - well, I bought my lottery ticket last night, so item 1 of my plan is complete....