Between a rock and a hard place...

mom.w.no.kids

Junior Member
Aug 27, 2011
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New York
I apologize for what is going to be a lengthy post, but I really need some advise so please bear with me.

Here's some background info:
My boyfriend and I took in his nephew, "B'', about 3 months ago. He was originally living with his mother, but her boyfriend was abusive, so about a year ago he decided to move in with his estranged father. We had been in contact with him on and off for about 2 years, and in the months leading up to his moving in, the calls became more frequent, begging us to lt him move in because life there was terrible. B told us that his father was always yelling at him, putting him down, basically no better than his mother's house. So believing that he was in a situation that I was in a few years back, I felt sympathetic and pushed my boyfriend to let him move in, and after much lega research and personal deliberation, we agreed to take him in, but on our terms. We laid ground rules for him which included chores such as dishes when they needed to be done, and cleaning the downstairs bathroom which is only about 5x5 ft, mowing the lawn once a week, keeping up on his laundry, and working with my boyfriend at his auto shop. He agreed to these terms and we moved him in. Now I am seriously regretting this. Here's why:

*He "lives" in our garage, which has been turned into a mini apartment complete with cable tv, xbox, wii, ps2, fridge, stove, microwave, couches, hot tub, everything but plumbing, but the house is less than 10 steps away and he has full access to facilities at any time. We told him when he moved in to treat the garage as if it were HIS house, meaning to pick up after himself, put food away to prevent bugs, and occasionaly vacuum the carpet. This went well for about a week. He leaves his clothes in heaps on the floor, leaves his bedding out (we cleared out room under the entertainment center for this purpose), leaves empty cups and chip bags laying around, and leaves the door not only unlocked but wide open when he leaves for work in the morning. I mostly work evenings and late nights, so Im not always up when they leave, and every time I find hte door open I worry that weve been robbed.

*When I ask him to do his chores, he gives me this long sigh and says "fiiiineee" like Im asking him to do a major overhaul. I usually do dishes since Im home during the day, but if I know he made most of them, Ill have him do them. This shouldnt take more than half an hour. We have a dishwasher, and what cant go in there is only 2 or 3 things. He loads the dishwasher so poorly that 6 glasses have been broken from shoving them in beween plates on the bottom rack. Ive explained to him how to load it, what can go in etc, he always says "yeah i know" but keeps doing the same thing. It takes him on average an hour and a half to do dishes and he somehow manages to use all the hot water in the process, not to mention he wasnt using soap for hte longest time.The bathroom, as I said is only about 5x5 ft, nothing too overwhelming. Ive showed him what products to use, where they are, how to clean things etc and he does them completely half assed. One week he took one of my decorative dish cloths to "clean" with. He ran water in the sink and wiped off the lid of the toilet, and left my cloth in a wet heap in the shower. I made him go back and do it right and he said "I dont see why I have to clean it, Im not the only one that uses it." He's right, hes not the only one but thats what we call community effort.

*Weve been doing some work on the house for a few months now (Siding, sealing the driveway, etc) and my boyfriend and his buddies are doing the work to save a few bucks. You would think that to be able to be on a job with a carpenter, mason, and mechanic, he'd see it as a valuable learning experience for future work. No. Every time we go to look for him hes watching Netflix on the xbox. He says "it's not my house, why do I have to do the work?" We started the siding about 4 days ago, and we found a large bee hive. Everyone who lives here except for B is allergic, so antagonizing them is the last thing we want to do. We got rid of the hive but a few bees still linger. We told him to leave them alone, but B thought it was a great idea to swat and stomp them, and then spray at them with brake cleaner. In case you dont know, theres a chemical in brake cleaner that strips color out of vinyl siding. So of course he sprays it right at the garage, ruining a good 3 pieces, meaning that we have to buy a whole new box just for 3 pieces.

*Finally, the personal disrespect. Im an artist and have my studio in the back room of the garage, and Ive spent many years growing my tool collection and doing little projects to make our house more homey. B likes to smoke those little cheapey cigars, and I smoke cigarettes, so Ive got 3 ashtrays in the garage, since thats the only place I smoke, other than outside. I noticed one day that one of my painted terra cotta plant bases was shoved in with his laundry heap, and had been used as an ashtray. And I dont mean just to ash into, I mean he was mashing the butt end into it, ruining the paint. Upon further nosing around, I found that he had taken one of my expensive drawing pens apart, chewed on the one end and shoved a filter in it because "cigarette smoke is too harsh", which led me to the question of when he started smoking, and he said he had been smoking MY cigarettes, which we all know how pricey those are. Every few days I find my drawers rifled through, things moved or missing, and when I ask him he says either "I dont know" or "yeah I needed something".

So heres the question: Do you think this boy, who's 18, is taking advantage of our hospitality? Do you think Im wrong to ask him to do chores, and housework when everyone else is doing work? Would you let him stay? Or send him back to his father?

I really feel that Im being taken advantage of, and that he doesnt appreciate us doing him a favor. I would greatly appreciate any and al replies. Thank you for reading.
 

mom.w.no.kids

Junior Member
Aug 27, 2011
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New York
He pays $50 a week. But that barely covers the extra groceries I buy to feed this kid. Since hes moved in, we've had to buy him work boots and clothes, and hire a lawyer due to some poor judgement on his part that I forgot to mention. That total is close to $2000 and they havent reached a decision yet. Then there's the cost of replacing tools that got "lost" when he didnt clean up after a project.

My boyfriend is at his end with him. He comes home after work every day ready to kill (not literally) this kid because he's always sitting down or eating something instead of working like the other guys. Whenever my boyfriend gives him a job that he doesnt want to do, instead of being grateful for a chance to make money, he pouts and tells him hes not going to do a stupid job like that.

I guess I just feel like he should be doing whatever he can to stay on good terms with us, because his parents wont take him back and hes got no where else to go. But it seems like he doesnt care.
 

sweettartsarah

PF Regular
Aug 27, 2011
50
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Stockton, CA
Hi there! First of all I want to say that I think the decision you made by taking him in shows that you are a kind and loving person. It's great that there are people who want to help others in this world. Now on to the problem. I have seen many times where people take in someone from a bad situation and expect them to be "grateful". I'm not saying you want him to get down on his hands and knees and thank you, but you would like him to show his appreciation by being respectful to your home and helping you out. This SEEMS reasonable. The problem is that gratitude, respect, helpfulness and the ability to be a part of a functional family has to be taught, the same as other skills. If no one ever taught this young man these things, then he will not display them.

So you have some choices to make in my opinion. You can accept the situation as it is. You can try and help him learn these things, which will be a long process and require a lot of patience. Or you can say that this is all more than you bargained for and ask him to leave. I don't think anyone would jugde you harshly for making the last choice.

If you decide you want to help him learn how to be a btter person and a productive member of your household, it will be like teaching a child something. But he is not a child and will not appreciate being treated like one. So you will have to walk a fine line between "teaching" him and treating him like the adult that he legally is.

I would be interested to hear what you decide to do and how this turns out. Good luck!!!
 

Carmenellie

PF Regular
Aug 29, 2011
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I agree with sweettartsarah- even if he does feel grateful for the help, the situation he was raised in doesn't prepare him for living in a functional household.

From personal experience, I can take a good guess at the things running through his head. First, relief, from getting out of a tough situation. Then a kind of exhausting happiness mixed with a fear that any minute things are going to take a turn for the worse. Every time you ask him to do something, he probably feels first resentment at being told to do something (he was probably raised to see it as punishment), then guilt because he knows he shouldn't be feeling resentful, and then overwhelmed because of the mixed feelings.

There's no guarantee you can fix that, however, and it could take years, and like previous posters have stated, it may be more than you can/want to handle. Its obvious he's ill-prepared to live on his own, but you may not have much other choice.
 

gbellsong

Junior Member
Aug 26, 2011
12
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Houston, Texas
Would he be agreeable to a talk? By that I mean, letting him know (in a calm manner) how his actions are affecting you and your boyfriend, and that things cannot continue to go on as they are. He is 18 now, so his independence is kicking in. Your boyfriend might want to do most of the talking, but as things stand now, he is not getting any training for actually handling life on his own. He would never last in the real world with his present attitudes. A heart to heart might help, and you might also add that if he cannot agree to the ground rules, he will be out. You might also talk about him paying you back for the extra expenses.

It is a tough call all around, but it cannot continue the way it is. Boundaries must be respected.
 

IADad

Super Moderator
Feb 23, 2009
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First of all he's not a boy, he's a man, apparently with a job and all, so free yourself from that encumberance of worrying about potentially kicking out a child.

My first (and 2nd and 3rd) reaction was to kick him out, that it's time for tough love.) but as Carmenellie pointed out, maybe he's not equiped to fit into your household, so you have to decide if you want to wrok on that with him or free yourself from the burden.

If you chose to keep him and work with him, I'd suggest a sit down discussion laying all the cards on the table and without any anger, saying the way things are is simply not acceptable to us. So, if you want to stay here, we need to work on a plan, and then plan it out, what's he going to be responsible for, how are you going to review the outcomes together, what happens when one of you doesn't live up to the agreement. If you can do that all in the light of helping him out and trying to work together, then great. If you let him slide on the responsibilities, then you aren't doing him any favors letting him stay, he's just learning to slack and depend on you, and he'll never stand on his own. I have a 40 you brother in law who, although he lives on his own, and works still has his parents bailing him out of legal and financial trouble every month.
 

Christopher

PF Regular
Jul 27, 2011
44
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74
New Jersey
One thing that seems perfectly clear to me - you are being used. Your kindness is being abused and I frankly do not understand how you don't know it.

I agree that his previous circumstances are the origin of how he treats others, you are enabling him at this point. I don't totally side with IADad about kicking him out - at least not right away.

Sit him down, let him know (again) what is expected of him, both in effort and attitude. Have an open honest discussion, but make sure he knows that he has agreed to take on responsibilities, and that is how the world works. If he is not willing to live up to those responsibilities then he needs to be out in the world learning that the hard way.

I know it seems a hard line to take but it is true. What are you 'teaching' him about life by allowing what you have been? Do not continue enabling him to be a user of people who care and want to help. You can not help someone who will not work toward their own needs in any way but taking from others.

He wants rights, and should have them. But with rights come responsibilities.
 

parentastic

PF Fiend
Jul 22, 2011
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I am going to take a stand here and venture that the young man is not consciously using anyone.

The skills required to become autonomous and self-managing are HARD to develop, and they come from years of trial and error and guidance from firm but loving, caring and attentive parenting.
If that young man has only known abuse, what it also means is that his brain has been delayed in its development. Someone saiod that he acts like a 14 years old: and the thing is, he IS, because his brain as only acquired the maturity of a 14 years old.

The pattern in his life is that he is not worth helping. He get this from his abusive parents - then as he gets welcome in a loving family, his lack of maturity and his low self-esteem and issues causes him to act precisely in the way that gets him more rejected.... which in turn validates and reinforce his idea that he is not worth saving.
<I>"Why should I care to pick up after myself and cleanup and do what they ask me to do - anyway, they will kick me out. If my own parents think I am useless, how could they not? They are already preparing themselves to kick me out. Why should I even try, if it's already decided?"</I>

It's a difficult place you are in, OP.
You can help this young man - perhaps - but only with a lot of timew, commitment, unconditional support, firmness and acceptance. Only when the young man will feel he can be accepted <I>regardless</I>of his mistake and misbehavior, will he be in a place to truly listen, learn and grow. Are you willing to go down that road? Only you knows that. It's a huge commitment. If you do, you will have to treat him like a 14 years old (not an 18) when giving responsibilities and expectations - yet at the same time, being adults, you can only have <I>influence</I> over him - forceful authority won't work.

Have you thought about sitting down with him to ask him about his dreams, his goals, his desires? This is where I'd start - wondering how I could help him, and by doing so, making him feel like he wants to do something in return and it's worth it. (note that of course, I know perfectly well that you are ALREADY doing a lot just by having him here! But he does know this and cannot realize it at this stage. Discussing about his dreams may lead him to find his own internal motivation to do what is needed to get there, and you then become part of that. Learning how to behave and stay here and become a productive and accepted member of your family - to make him feel it is now HIS family, not just a stranger in an outside family - then becomes a mean to achieve his own dreams and desires... I think.
 

junelyna

Junior Member
Sep 1, 2011
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mom.w.no.kids said:
I apologize for what is going to be a lengthy post, but I really need some advise so please bear with me.

Here's some background info:
My boyfriend and I took in his nephew, "B'', about 3 months ago. He was originally living with his mother, but her boyfriend was abusive, so about a year ago he decided to move in with his estranged father. We had been in contact with him on and off for about 2 years, and in the months leading up to his moving in, the calls became more frequent, begging us to lt him move in because life there was terrible. B told us that his father was always yelling at him, putting him down, basically no better than his mother's house. So believing that he was in a situation that I was in a few years back, I felt sympathetic and pushed my boyfriend to let him move in, and after much lega research and personal deliberation, we agreed to take him in, but on our terms. We laid ground rules for him which included chores such as dishes when they needed to be done, and cleaning the downstairs bathroom which is only about 5x5 ft, mowing the lawn once a week, keeping up on his laundry, and working with my boyfriend at his auto shop. He agreed to these terms and we moved him in. Now I am seriously regretting this. Here's why:

*He "lives" in our garage, which has been turned into a mini apartment complete with cable tv, xbox, wii, ps2, fridge, stove, microwave, couches, hot tub, everything but plumbing, but the house is less than 10 steps away and he has full access to facilities at any time. We told him when he moved in to treat the garage as if it were HIS house, meaning to pick up after himself, put food away to prevent bugs, and occasionaly vacuum the carpet. This went well for about a week. He leaves his clothes in heaps on the floor, leaves his bedding out (we cleared out room under the entertainment center for this purpose), leaves empty cups and chip bags laying around, and leaves the door not only unlocked but wide open when he leaves for work in the morning. I mostly work evenings and late nights, so Im not always up when they leave, and every time I find hte door open I worry that weve been robbed.

*When I ask him to do his chores, he gives me this long sigh and says "fiiiineee" like Im asking him to do a major overhaul. I usually do dishes since Im home during the day, but if I know he made most of them, Ill have him do them. This shouldnt take more than half an hour. We have a dishwasher, and what cant go in there is only 2 or 3 things. He loads the dishwasher so poorly that 6 glasses have been broken from shoving them in beween plates on the bottom rack. Ive explained to him how to load it, what can go in etc, he always says "yeah i know" but keeps doing the same thing. It takes him on average an hour and a half to do dishes and he somehow manages to use all the hot water in the process, not to mention he wasnt using soap for hte longest time.The bathroom, as I said is only about 5x5 ft, nothing too overwhelming. Ive showed him what products to use, where they are, how to clean things etc and he does them completely half assed. One week he took one of my decorative dish cloths to "clean" with. He ran water in the sink and wiped off the lid of the toilet, and left my cloth in a wet heap in the shower. I made him go back and do it right and he said "I dont see why I have to clean it, Im not the only one that uses it." He's right, hes not the only one but thats what we call community effort.

*Weve been doing some work on the house for a few months now (Siding, sealing the driveway, etc) and my boyfriend and his buddies are doing the work to save a few bucks. You would think that to be able to be on a job with a carpenter, mason, and mechanic, he'd see it as a valuable learning experience for future work. No. Every time we go to look for him hes watching Netflix on the xbox. He says "it's not my house, why do I have to do the work?" We started the siding about 4 days ago, and we found a large bee hive. Everyone who lives here except for B is allergic, so antagonizing them is the last thing we want to do. We got rid of the hive but a few bees still linger. We told him to leave them alone, but B thought it was a great idea to swat and stomp them, and then spray at them with brake cleaner. In case you dont know, theres a chemical in brake cleaner that strips color out of vinyl siding. So of course he sprays it right at the garage, ruining a good 3 pieces, meaning that we have to buy a whole new box just for 3 pieces.

*Finally, the personal disrespect. Im an artist and have my studio in the back room of the garage, and Ive spent many years growing my tool collection and doing little projects to make our house more homey. B likes to smoke those little cheapey cigars, and I smoke cigarettes, so Ive got 3 ashtrays in the garage, since thats the only place I smoke, other than outside. I noticed one day that one of my painted terra cotta plant bases was shoved in with his laundry heap, and had been used as an ashtray. And I dont mean just to ash into, I mean he was mashing the butt end into it, ruining the paint. Upon further nosing around, I found that he had taken one of my expensive drawing pens apart, chewed on the one end and shoved a filter in it because "cigarette smoke is too harsh", which led me to the question of when he started smoking, and he said he had been smoking MY cigarettes, which we all know how pricey those are. Every few days I find my drawers rifled through, things moved or missing, and when I ask him he says either "I dont know" or "yeah I needed something".

So heres the question: Do you think this boy, who's 18, is taking advantage of our hospitality? Do you think Im wrong to ask him to do chores, and housework when everyone else is doing work? Would you let him stay? Or send him back to his father?

I really feel that Im being taken advantage of, and that he doesnt appreciate us doing him a favor. I would greatly appreciate any and al replies. Thank you for reading.
just return to his father. that's all.
 

singledad

PF Addict
Oct 26, 2009
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I've been thinking about this thread for a while now, and struggling to formulate any sort of concrete advice.

It is a very difficult position you are in, because, since he's an adult, you really have no control over him anymore, and yet, as parentastic said - chances are he's acting his emotional age, which is much younger than his physical age.

My opinion of this young man is that he has no self-respect whatsoever. (Note that I say self-respect, not self-esteem - there is a definite difference) Think about it - no one has ever really respected him, so how could he have learnt that he is worthy of respect? How can he have self-respect, if he doesn't think he is worthy of it? Self-respect is the basis on which we build respect for others, for rules, authority, for everything in life. Self-respect is what drives us to do our best and to be better people, because having self-respect means that you believe you are a good person, so you act like one. Conversely, lack of self-respect means that you believe you are a looser, so why should you not live like a looser?

Another thing I want to mention is something that sweettartsarah already touched on:

Chances are, that he has no idea how to respond to your kindness. He has never known kindness, so where could he have learnt how to respond to it? I know this may sound strange, but it is not always something that comes naturally. Remember that having someone care about him may be a completely new experience to him. It is a good experience, but it is also a huge change. Change, even if its for the better, is frightening, and doubly so when you have never known security and stability. So even though one would expect him to react with relief and gratitude, what he may be feeling could be something closer to confusion, uncertainty and fear. Perhaps he is pushing your buttons because subconciously he wants you to yell at him and put him down - it is what he knows, and what he believes he deserves. He knows how to feel and how to react when people treat him like that, so he doesn't have to come to terms with new, strange (and therefore frightening) emotions.

Better the devil you know...

How can you help him? I honestly don't know. In fact, I don't know if you can. He may need professional help to process his past. Regardless of his past and his emotions, you still need a way to make your household work, here and now. I don't know if you've already tried some of these things, but perhaps you can try things like drawing up a written roster of who does what when, so that he can see, on paper, that he isn't being used as a slave, but is instead being treated like a member of the family. He isn't the only one who uses the bathroom, but he's one of x people who does, and so each of those people get a turn to clean it.

I think its fine to expect him to do chores. Making a point of saying thank you for whatever little he does, and "well done" if he did something right, might even be a start at re-building his self-respect. And make sure to keep telling him that you expect him to do chores not because he owes you, but because you see him as part of your family, and that is what family do.

To protect yourself and your boundaries, you may need to find a way to lock him out of your studio.

I would not, under any circumstances, send him back to his father. That would only re-enforce his perception that he can't depend on anyone. I know its not your responsibility to "save" this young man, but sending him back to the situation you rescued him from, would probably seem like a horrible act of cruelty to him.

parentastic said:
Have you thought about sitting down with him to ask him about his dreams, his goals, his desires?
(...)
Discussing about his dreams may lead him to find his own internal motivation to do what is needed to get there, and you then become part of that.
That sounds like a good place to start, but be prepared that he may not HAVE any dream, goals or desires. Dreams are pointless when you (think you) know you can't accomplish them. The same goes for goals and desires. And insisting that he form some may add more pressure to an already very stressful situation. The future is usually a good place to look for motivation, but the future can also be a terrifying concept, if even the present is proving to be overwhelming...
 
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Christopher

PF Regular
Jul 27, 2011
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I think that parentastic is probably correct when he says he "is not consciously using anyone." That does not change the fact that he is using mom.w.no.kids. Raised in the environment he was, it is the only way he could survive. I also completely agree that he needs compassion, firmness and support. The difference between that statement and what was characterized as "forceful authority" is semantics. I feel we are saying much of the same thing - it is so tough to put it all into just a few words shared in a Forum.

I do not know if this young man can be helped is this home situation, but returning him to what he came from will surely guarantee that he continues down this self destructive path. I have witnessed somewhat similar situations go both ways. The final result will eventually be decided by the youths choices.

With that in mind, the things singledad put forth are of real importance. Yes he needs to understand that actions have consequences and must accept his part in that. But he also needs to be led to the point of realization that he is as worthy as anyone else, that he is not his past and the things that happened to him were in no way his fault. And that he will determine his future by the actions he chooses, and in that sense his life will be 'his fault' from here on out.
 

mom.w.no.kids

Junior Member
Aug 27, 2011
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First, I want to thank all of you for your replies and advise, I dont feel so horrible after reading your responses.

My boyfriend and I have had a handful of talks with B, both sit down and in passing about his attutide and responsibilities. Weve reminded him that he wanted to live here, he wanted to have freedoms, and he agreed to our terms. He made the choice, so we expect him to hold up his end of the agreement. He just sits there and nods, and then skulks off to hide for a few hours like we just beat him with a wooden spoon. Yesterday I got so upset with him I almost told him to pack his things and get out. Heres what happened, tell me what you think:

B has had 3 trash bags of laundry on the back porch for going on a month. Every few days Id ask him to either wash them or put them away. Hed say "yeah ok" and then go do something else. Well, I finally got so tired of my porch looking like a homeless shelter that I emptied the bags out onto the lawn and left them there for him to pick up when he got home. He didnt appreciate it, but I dont appreciate being ignored, so we'll see if that message got through... So they get home from work, B is picking up his clothes, and my boyfriend tells me that were having some friends over for dinner, so I go to the kitchen to get things ready. I had asked him the night before to put away the dishes that I had washed, so I thought it would only take a few minutes to find everything. I opened the cupboard to get my set of metal prep bowls (they are sequential in size, so they fit together nicely in the cupboard) and I get bombarded by these bowls flying at my head. He had shoved the big bowls on top of the small ones, and closed the door to keep them in, only to fall out when I opened it. I noticed I was missing a few bowls, and found them in the broiler drawer of the oven which I had preheating. Not thinking, I went to grab them and burned my hand.. So Im looking for the rest of the things, and theyre all shoved in haphazardly, so poorly that I just emptied the cupboards and fixed it myself... He still leaves heaps of clothes, shoes, snack wrappers, all sorts of things, even after our sit downs. Im at my end with this boy... I cant keep having the same conversation over and over when clearly hes not listening. I can understand that you may need to be taught to recieve kindness, but this kid has no problem with that. Its reciprocating it thats the hard part, and I dont have kids of my own for a reason: Im not ready to be anyones mommy, certainly not to someone only a few years my junior. But as frustrated as I am with him, I know hes got no place else to go and Im not sure that I could be responsible for making him homeless. Any thoughts?
 

mom.w.no.kids

Junior Member
Aug 27, 2011
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New York
As for the goals and dreams... He doesnt have any. His mind isnt thinking past tomorrow at any given time. Ive talked to him about enrolling in classes part time, and he has no interest in furthering himself..
 

IADad

Super Moderator
Feb 23, 2009
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mom.w.no.kids said:
As for the goals and dreams... He doesnt have any. His mind isnt thinking past tomorrow at any given time. Ive talked to him about enrolling in classes part time, and he has no interest in furthering himself..
so, what if you see if he has any dreams for tomorrow? Can you ask him, "So, if you could do anything in the world you wanted to tomorrow, what would that be?" Then you have a conversation about what it takes to reach that kind of a goal, maybe different possible routes, and then the steps along the way. Maybe that approach might stimulate something....I don't think it could hurt to show that somebody's interested in what he thinks, maybe if he thinks it matters he can free up his mind to dream, then you can work on reaching out for dreams...just a thought.
 

IADad

Super Moderator
Feb 23, 2009
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mom.w.no.kids said:
So they get home from work, B is picking up his clothes, and my boyfriend tells me that were having some friends over for dinner, so I go to the kitchen to get things ready. I had asked him the night before to put away the dishes that I had washed, so I thought it would only take a few minutes to find everything. I opened the cupboard to get my set of metal prep bowls (they are sequential in size, so they fit together nicely in the cupboard) and I get bombarded by these bowls flying at my head. He had shoved the big bowls on top of the small ones, and closed the door to keep them in, only to fall out when I opened it. I noticed I was missing a few bowls, and found them in the broiler drawer of the oven which I had preheating. Not thinking, I went to grab them and burned my hand.. So Im looking for the rest of the things, and theyre all shoved in haphazardly, so poorly that I just emptied the cupboards and fixed it myself... He still leaves heaps of clothes, shoes, snack wrappers, all sorts of things, even after our sit downs. Im at my end with this boy... I cant keep having the same conversation over and over when clearly hes not listening. I can understand that you may need to be taught to recieve kindness, but this kid has no problem with that. Its reciprocating it thats the hard part, and I dont have kids of my own for a reason: Im not ready to be anyones mommy, certainly not to someone only a few years my junior. But as frustrated as I am with him, I know hes got no place else to go and Im not sure that I could be responsible for making him homeless. Any thoughts?
well, that's a tough day and I know it's aggrivating, but it's really not his fault that you burned yourself, right? Sure he should have put things away right, but he didn't burn you.

Okay, so how to make more lemonade out of these lemons. unfortunately, I think you're going to have to keep having these conversations. Putting the dishes away, for example. Can you go to him and tell him that you really appreciate him putting them away and especially how he did such a complete job of putting them all away. Then since he's not on the defensive, can you say, "can I show you one cool thing? These bowls, they all stack together, so it's easy to fit them all in one place, you don't have to go around looking for places to put everything. Just thought maybe that'd help make the job easier for you next time."

I know it's easier said, than done, but it's what I could think of.
 

Carmenellie

PF Regular
Aug 29, 2011
59
0
0
IADad: Great point on the reinforcement and then subtle correction with the dishes. Odds are, putting the dishes away in the way that is the most logical to you did not even occur to him. And instead of making him feel stupid or bad about it, it's only going to get better if you treat it like a ..... discovery, of sorts.

Its exactly the same method that worked with my little brother- who has had some mental development issues his whole life (Aspbergers). Though our childhood didn't hold <I>as much</I> abuse as the one your charge came from, he took it harder than I did and exhibited the same kinds of behaviors you are describing.... He is 18 now and the last two years have seen huge improvement- mostly due to an improvement in living situation that started four year ago... It took about two years for it to sink in with him.
 

parentastic

PF Fiend
Jul 22, 2011
1,602
0
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Canada
I want to share something with you, mom.w.no.kids, it is concept called "proximal zone of development". The idea is that, depending on a child's maturity, there are things he can do (they are inside his zone of development), things he can't do (outside his zone of development), and most importantly, there are things he could do if you first do them with him, (these things are in the proximal zone of development).
The process of helping a child learn to do new things that he has the potential to do,m but does not yet know, is called "scaffolding" because it provides the child with help to acquire the proper skills.

All of this to say: I have the haunch that this young man is in survival mode, had been in that mode all his life, and has never had the chance to actually practice some of these skills in order ot develop them. Add this to his low self-image and low motivation and it gives an idea of the picture.

Take the laundry bags, for instance.
I am betting if you would take him by the hand, bring him to the bags and say: "I notice the laundry is still in the bags, B. How about we do it together? I'll show you how." Then you ask him to pick up the bags, you give him small easy objective (separate the colors... here is how we set the machine, etc) and you do it WITH him, coaching him, and giving him clear feedback: "I noticed you separated the color well, good job. Thank you for doing that."

You then can do this over and over again WITH him for a few days or even a few weeks, slowly doing less and letting him do more, until one day, you can then tell him: "Would you take care of the laundry for me please? " and when he realizes you are not there to do it, you can then say "it's okay, I know you can do it, I trust you."

But first you need to get him, to coach him to be in that place.
Same for managing the dishes or any other chores or task you ask of him.

I am sorry to say that this will take several months if not years and it is a slow process requiring patience and compassion... so it's up to you to decide if you are willing to go that route.
I know if I was in that position I'd feel terrible because of course I would not want to return that child to the street or to his abusers, and yet you have your own needs to tend to in terms of family harmony and peace.
But I know it can be done.

When I said this young man needs love and care and firmness, I do NOT mean "tough love"! That "tough love" is all he ahas ever seen, for him it makes no difference with his abusers. He will only see how it might have felt disrespectful to him to throw his cloths on the grass - not how disrespectful he was with you.
I see firmness is the sense of: do not let him get away with it, but coach him with every single task, even if you have to literally be with him 3/4th of the day. Speak in "I" and constantly states how you feel, so he gets to realize how other people around him are affected, without feeling accused.

Finally, I would start by apologizing for throwing his laundry out in the grass. Most likely, no-one, NO-ONE has EVER aplogized to him. This can be a POWERFUL experience - and it may give him the space to apologize too and take more responsibility. He will still need the guidance and coaching though - even if he starts to want to help, IMO.
 

Christopher

PF Regular
Jul 27, 2011
44
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0
74
New Jersey
It seems that you are coming up against a complete lack of what you might call education.

There is a good chance that because of the conditions under which B was raised no standard of how things are to be done was ever created. When we bring up our children they learn that 'how to' only partially by what they are told. Much more of that training is conveyed by example - by them being around watching &amp; helping the adults and/or siblings doing things in the manner expected.

B does not seem to have the foundation that we all take for granted. It is very similar to a person raised in another culture. All the things you and I might take completely for granted are totally absent from their experience.

The next time you sit down and have the conversation keep it at a low basic level. Not in any way condescending or demeaning but at the level of one hearing these things for the first time.

I hope this helps. You have a big heart taking on this challenge. Good luck!