Frustrated and upset with both of us!...

[mesasa1978]

Every time I look through my son's bookbag, I become depressed.

Bear is 10, a 5th grade student, and he's a bright kid (or at least appears to be!). Academically, he can always pass the proficiency tests without too much trouble. His problem is organization and motivation.

I realize he is 10. Few (if any!) 10 year olds are intrinsically motivated. When I was his age, I was horribly disorganized and my grades suffered because of it. I see myself in him, and I agonize over it. Today, when I went through his bag, I found dozens of papers, all randomly ordered. Some were graded, some were works in progress, some were "I don't know what to do with that." Worse, there was a math log that was due today (sub today, so not due until Monday now) that he was supposed to be completing every night. He hasn't completed one line. Not one.

I partly blame myself. I'm a working mom -- a school administrator, actually -- so I don't always go through his bag. But I know that I went through it last week and this paper wasn't in there. Still, I should be aware of these things. At the same time, I blame him. He hides work and engages in lots of avoidance behaviors to get out of work. He said, "I already know those stupid math facts. I shouldn't need a math log!" He doesn't really grasp why it's necessary. And I'm having a hard time getting his buy-in.

I'm sorely tempted to help him catch up, but at the same time, I want him to see the consequence of this action. I don't know *what* to do. Either way, I feel like I'm doing the wrong thing. If he fails, the teachers give Jake and me the evil eye as if we're a bad parent and rotten student. If he gets full credit for this assignment, it will be because I did it. Not him. Which isn't really good, either.

Then I begin to wonder how much of this is about ME rather than him, and whether I'm over thinking the situation. I'm conflicted--I want him to succeed, but on his terms and with his own steam. But how much steam does/should a 5th grader have? I was a high achiever in high school and college, but I was a total mess in middle school. I don't really remember what I did or what my parents did to get me turned around. They really don't remember, either. Do I wait for Bear to get himself motivated? Or do I keep pushing until it's turned into a big argument?

I'm sorry for writing a novel, but if you've followed me this far, thanks for listening. Right now, I just feel like I'm at the end of my rope. My husband is a great father and partner, and he does a lot. He's just not the academic support in the home. He does a TON (laundry, meals, baths, playtime) to make up for when my work comes home with me. I just don't know what to do and right now I'm worried for my boy. Thanks, again, for just listening. I'd appreciate any ideas, though!

 

[Xero]

Sorry you're going through this! One major thing is, he needs more support than just "you're supposed to do that" and then consequences for if he doesn't. It isn't fun to do homework, and a lot of kids need extra guidance in that area. It also does no good for you to let him do his own thing all week and then go through his backpack at the end of the week to see what he didn't do. (Oh and I'm not trying to be mean, I have just seen too many kids fail using this method). What you probably need to do is support him in getting him homework done every day.

When he gets home from school, designate at least one hour where he HAS to do homework. If he claims he has no homework, he still has to sit and read a book for that hour (then if he was lying, he might decide to do the homework anyway since he has to sit there one way or the other). To make sure you KNOW what he is supposed to be doing, have him keep an "agenda book" or "assignment book" or whatever you want to call it, that he writes down everything he needs to do for each subject each day and each of his teachers (or his one teacher if that's how your school works) signs it in confirmation EVERY DAY, even if it says "nothing". This way you KNOW what he is supposed to be doing, and you can ensure that he does it. Most teachers will extend the effort to work with you on this, as they don't generally want to see a student fail. It's also really not that hard to scan over something and sign it each day. A lot of schools do this routinely. At the end of his one hour homework session each day, compare his agenda book to the work he has completed and make sure everything matches up. If something is missing or incomplete, have him go back to the kitchen table or wherever you have his homework time and make him do it all before he is allowed to do anything else. If he needs your help, yes you should help him! Even if it means you doing a lot of the work for him, make sure you have him help you as much as possible and sit and watch everything that you do. I do not believe it is helpful at all to allow a child to fail rather than help them get their work done. He wont see the consequences as something to learn from, he will see them as a reason to continue failing and give up. I have been there and done that. Especially considering the ultimate consequence for his actions would be failing a grade. I have read that repeating a grade can be one of the worst things for a child to go through academically.

http://www.greatschools.org/special-education/health/659-repeating-a-grade.gs[/URL]
Outcomes of retention

The idea of giving a child another year to "catch-up" and develop needed skills sounds like a positive alternative. However, research shows that outcomes for kids who are retained generally are not positive. In its 2003 "Position Statement on Student Grade Retention," the National Association of School Psychologists (NASP) reports:
<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• Academic achievement of kids who are retained is poorer than that of peers who are promoted.</LI>
  <LI>
• Achievement gains associated with retention fade within two to three years after the grade repeated.</LI>
  <LI>
• Kids who are identified as most behind are the ones "most likely harmed by retention."</LI>
  <LI>
• Retention often is associated with increased behavior problems.</LI>
  <LI>
• Grade retention has a negative impact on all areas of a child's achievement (reading, math, and language) and socio-emotional adjustment (peer relationships, self-esteem, problem behaviors and attendance).</LI>
  <LI>
• Students who are retained are more likely to drop out of school compared to students who were never retained. In fact, grade retention is one of the most powerful predictors of high school dropout.</LI>
  <LI>
• Retained students are more likely to have poorer educational and employment outcomes during late adolescence and early adulthood.</LI>
  <LI>
• Retention is more likely to have benign or positive impact when students are not simply held back, but receive specific remediation to address skill and/or behavioral problems and promote achievement and social skills.</LI>

</LIST>______________________________

So you want to keep that from happening, honestly. I think it is our jobs as parents to make sure our kids don't fail in school, even if it means a lot of work on our part (and sometimes doing a lot of the work for them). I think that's a pretty common thing for parents to do, honestly. There's nothing to be ashamed of in helping your kids with their schoolwork.

I think he still has some potential, some kids just need a little more push than others! Some kids need someone breathing down their neck to get things done. Good luck!

 

[mom2many]

I had a friend whose son was horrible disorganized and his grades suffered from it. She learned a lot from that son and did not make the same mistakes with the next.

She bought binders and organizers, set it up so that everything had a place. Then everyday after school the first thing she did was go through his backpack, and would show him again where to put everything. With diligence it got to the point that he did it on his own because it became second nature to him. She never made it a big deal, just a fact of life.

If you create a system for both of you and stick with it it will eventually stick with him.

 

[bssage]

Mesa.

We are apparently kindred spirits. Very similar situation with my boy (11).
Some of the things I have done.

Take full advantage of the IT stuff the school offers. I have mine send me updates of his grades weekly. When I started, I did it daily but that was just to much. I get a message on my phone that his progress report has arrived and check his grades each week. The big advantage to that is nothing turns into a huge deal. Sometimes they will cross the line to big deal. But nothing that we really cant get resolved during the weekend or next week.

Our school makes the kids fill out a day planner each day. Much better than digging through that bag like a crime scene investigator.

All of the teachers have E-mail. I have their address and they have mine. And I frequently contact them especially in problematic classes. Also that "weekly progress report" allows them to make comments.

I would not do the homework for him. One thing I have been trying to drill into my little man's head this year. Is that anything you need to get good at take practice. From walking to eating to writing, math and band. Practice is the key. In our kids age group (at least Cole's school) The homework is pratice and critical for them to test well.

There are some other things that I think have a large effect on his focus. Specifically rest, exercise, and morning meals.

The last couple of things is. I make big deals of each and every success he has. I try and turn his failures into chances to explain why what he is doing is important and how many people struggle with the same things he does. I explain that when he has done the things he is responsible for that everything is more fun knowing its not hanging over his head.

Last and this is my current project. Is trying to get him to do his homework not at the end of the night. Or Sunday evening but as soon as he can. Then looking it over a couple of times before he turns it in. Difficult to do but have had a lot of success lately with it. Really improved his test scores.

I think most true parents, ultimately want their kids to do better, be better, and have more opportunities that we did. That is what I focus on.

 

[bssage]

Very interesting stuff Xero. I was held back. When I got into my accident. And I agree with everything in that study.

I disagree with you about doing homework in that age group. I think in the early grades its all about practice and building some fundamental knowledge base. Much of the rest of school will likely use this base to build on. But IMHO the more practice and building a strong base the better they will cope with future educational hurdles.

I think what you will find is that grade school, early middle school age. The homework grade is not nearly as significant as test scores. Because its more practice than critical thinking. Not sure just IMHO

 

[Helene]

Oh, how I understand your problem... My daughter is 13 and she always forgets some her schoolthings or personal medical items (she's got diabetes) at home.... To my opinion it happens because her day schedule is very busy (she has got a lot of additional trainings), and she absolutely hasn't got free time... Just need to do someting with it...

 

[Xero]

I disagree with you about doing homework in that age group. I think in the early grades its all about practice and building some fundamental knowledge base. Much of the rest of school will likely use this base to build on. But IMHO the more practice and building a strong base the better they will cope with future educational hurdles.

I think what you will find is that grade school, early middle school age. The homework grade is not nearly as significant as test scores. Because its more practice than critical thinking. Not sure just IMHO

I think that's not what I meant. I only meant that you should help them do some of the work IF they absolutely feel that they cannot do it. My kids aren't in real school yet, but when they are I would never send them to school with a blank assignment. I mean but this would only be after everthing else didn't work, like having him check in the back of the book or look it up online, or call a classmate to ask how they did it etc. What I meant was that if I felt that he was absolutely at a loss then I would help him do his work. I guess maybe it depends on the school or something, but me personally I always had terrible grades in school BECAUSE I didn't do my homework. I did great in on schoolwork and tests, but I couldn't stand homework (still to this day I think it's excessive and uneccessary) so I almost never did it. They were a very big part of our grades at my school, so my grades always suffered. My kids will be going to the same school I went to, so yes I will make sure their homework is done even if that requires my help!!! I wont sit by and watch my kids fail if all I have to do is get involved to keep it from happening. Ugh I think homework is stupid anyway. They spend, what? Eight hours a day in school five days a week and then they STILL have to come home from school each day and spend more hours on homework that was sent with them?? Then eat dinner, shower, potentially do chores? When do they get time to just be kids? But yeah, all that aside. haha

 

[Andrea Brown]

Your strategies are sound. Letting him experience consequences is a very good method of building responsibility. I would suggest that you have a quick interview with the teacher and insist your son attend.

Tell both the teacher and your son what you have bee doing and your reasons. Ask them what they think about this. Is it helping? Were they aware that you care very deeply about your son's academic success?

If the three of you talk together, you may agree to continue with that strategy or even develop another idea together that may be even better.

The teacher will appreciate that you are concerned and want to work together to support your son's development.

Your son will appreciate that you care enough to set this meeting to talk about him and his organizational difficulties.

You may find that you are feeling more confident in the situation after all parties involved have the opportunity to share together.

Best wishes!

 

[john pape]

Frustrated and upset with both of us! we will get a best thoughts and never loose confidence in any stage of life so we will determine all resources and be happy all life never take tension in life.
<URL url="http://www.jamieplunkettfitness.com/blog/2011/09/05/train-like-a-kardashian-at-a-leawood-bootcamp/">

 

[GavinH]

I must admit that I am a bit OCD when it comes to organization and my daughter's school bag routinely challenges me to remain focused on the big things. Currently she is maintaining her grades so I am not intervening but I would say that teaching your child some basic organization is a life skill that will serve them well throughout life.

In this case it seems that it is affecting grades so a meeting with the teacher and daily intervention is important to get him back on the right path. Over time, and as he learns and shows responsibility, you can back off. There is also nothing wrong with him facing the consequences now for some smaller infractions (like the math log) to help drive the message home. It may even be helpful to collaborate with the teacher on the consequences.

my 2c

 

[stjohnjulie]

I too am in a very similar boat! My son is 10, 5th grade, and his book bag often looks like a bomb went off in it. Even if we clean it out daily. There were some big efforts by his 'main' teacher at the beginning of the year to get the kids organized. She was very specific about how things had to be kept. It meant about 6 folders, a couple of binders, a few notebooks, and it totally didn't work for my son or me. I had a hard time keeping track of what was going on when I had to check SO MANY places for assignments. So for me, I think just sitting down and figuring out something that works for the two of you is a good start. The assignment book is a great tool. And it's excellent practice for the kids that can really help out when they are adults. I work a lot, and I have to say that I am not as on top of things as I would like to be. I feel bad about that...but I also realize that at 10 years old, my guy has to take on a little more responsibility for these types of things. A good learning lesson for us both.

Just a comment about homework... As a general rule, homework is review work. The things they bring home are a review of what they learned in school. If the kids come home and do not know how to complete an assignment, it should go back with a note, "not completed, did not learn/comprehend in school lesson." This is good for the teachers to see. If the kids don't know something it's up to the teacher to teach them. We are their parents, and we teach them lots of stuff, but I would say that most parents are not certified teachers. And there is a reason why we make teachers get certified...they learn how to effectively teach (or we hope so at least) It's very important that teachers know when a class lesson was not effective so they can change their methods to be more effective.

 

[Xero]

Just a comment about homework... As a general rule, homework is review work. The things they bring home are a review of what they learned in school. If the kids come home and do not know how to complete an assignment, it should go back with a note, "not completed, did not learn/comprehend in school lesson." This is good for the teachers to see. If the kids don't know something it's up to the teacher to teach them. We are their parents, and we teach them lots of stuff, but I would say that most parents are not certified teachers. And there is a reason why we make teachers get certified...they learn how to effectively teach (or we hope so at least) It's very important that teachers know when a class lesson was not effective so they can change their methods to be more effective.

I completely agree with that, but unfortunately when I was in school, it didn't matter what your reasoning was. If you brought an assigment to school blank, you got a big fat zero. I mean, imagine how many incomplete homework assignments teachers would get handed to them every day if all the kid had to do was say "I didn't get it" in order to avoid having their grade affected. I think your method of thinking is totally correct. That's how it should be. I don't know if it is that way though. Mostly because, unfortunately, one teacher doesn't have time to sit down and help every single confused student complete their homework assignments everyday, and they also can't let them off the hook for not doing it either (or it wouldn't be fair to those that did do it). That's why teachers are known to ask "why didn't you ask your parents for help?". It is the teacher's job to teach, but our job to reinforce IMO.

 

[stjohnjulie]

I hear ya Xero. I guess the teachers and principals have to be on the same page for that to work. This is something my son's principal is very strict on. Once the kids get older, the work gets harder, and a lot of times us parents don't remember how to do the work anymore. AND they have changed methods a lot since I was in school. I've helped Luca out with homework before when he didn't understand the concept and have totally screwed him up. My method was different than the teachers and it caused a lot of confusion. At any rate, it's really important that the teacher is made aware when the kiddos are having trouble with a concept. If they see that lots of kids aren't understanding something, then they can adjust their lesson and spend some extra time on it. I'm super lucky that Luca is at the top of the class. He is so smart! So if he is having trouble with something, I always make a point to let the teacher know. If he doesn't 'get it', there is a good chance the other kids don't either.

 

[Xero]

Oh yes, I am scared of the day that I no longer understand what my kids are learning in school! lol And yes I do agree that it is important for teachers to know when kids are having trouble with a concept.

 

[bluebell]

Hmmmm......homework. As a kid I hated doing it. There was so much more I wanted to do and homework was boring. Plus there were weeks where I didn't even get any. So a routine never established. I liked getting good marks though and everything did get done, eventually. Usually at the last minute. Some bigger projects my mom even helped me with just so it would get done on time. This followed through into high school where of course the work was heavier....and I continued with doing the minimal and last minute work. And I got pretty good grades. It came easy enough for me, and cramming, although stressful, paid off. I became an expert at an early age at not letting my parents even have a clue this is what I did.

However, this laziness and lack of study habits finally backfired in university. I didn't know how to study properly, and in university that was a skill that was a necessity. It was no longer easy to just cram in the 300 pages of required reading the night before a test (because while they teach you some things in class, ANYTHING from the required reading could be asked), or to write a 10 page paper the day before and still get a decent mark. Possible, but a lot more difficult. Plus assignments weren't as common and tests became worth much more, so if you bombed one thing it was hard to recover with something else. And the fact that they had your money and no one cared if you failed (besides just kicking you out eventually) made you even less accountable.

So, in hindsight, I would say that homework starting early and regularly (or SOMTHING, like just reading a schoolbook if there is no real assignment) is actually a really good habit to start and maintain. They say in college you need to do 1 hour of homework and/or study for every hour of in-class time, and as an adult you usually have more commitments then a child. So if a child cannot learn to set aside even a small regular time for study, it will be much more difficult in the future.

As an example, my brother's friend went to a private school most of his life and they had hours of homework a night (especially by high school), every night. He did it because there really wasn't much of a choice. Because of this he breezed through the 4 year engineering degree with no problems, where a good percentage of people fail or drop out due to difficulty. Granted, some people are just not the academic type, but I think being prepared is not a bad thing.

 

[MrsMummy]

routines!! and timers! oh and a control journal
1 hour home is a little steep I think for 10yo,
the best person i know to teach routines in a step by step format is flylady- she is so amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
build simple everyday routines, morning, after school after dinner, before bed. Also you could do getting to school and leaving school.
it helps with expectations and allows them to clear their heads of all the "stuff" they have to remember to do.

year 5 and while every year of school is important, how important is it really. I told my son recently I was disapointed in his grades for the year and the reason being I know he's smarter than the teacher is leading to. I then said dont worry tomuch about it mate when your a man no ones going to ask you what your grades were when you were 7 just hope you understand enough so you dont get left behind, that's all! now he was listerning what is left behind and how do I not get that. and he's doing really great this year.
As for homework I actively tell my child and teachers if they know the work it's rather pointless. dont send it or dont do it if they all ready know it. It's primary school leave the heavy lifting till the higher grade right now I focus almost completely on reading and sometimes spelling everything else if it doesnt fit in the 20-30 minutes it's not done. (i do time -witht he timer homework though)

 

[PianoLover]

She bought binders and organizers, set it up so that everything had a place. Then everyday after school the first thing she did was go through his backpack, and would show him again where to put everything. With diligence it got to the point that he did it on his own because it became second nature to him. She never made it a big deal, just a fact of life.

Sounds like a good approach! especially since it's done in a non-coersive manner but just as an activity to engage in together

 

[bssage]

Oh yes, I am scared of the day that I no longer understand what my kids are learning in school!

I think I told you all the story when Cole was in 3rd. He was having math trouble and asked for help. Big Bad Dad (me) strolls over to show him the ropes and, wholly crap! What the heck was this? So I went to the teacher after I dropped him at school the next day and the teacher says,,,," We like to throw in a calculus question once and a while so it will not be intimidating and completely unfamiliar when they get to high school"

 

[Xero]

What!!! Oh screw that!!!! lol I never even TOOK calculus in high school! At all! lol

 

[IADad]

I wouldn't even know a calculus problem if it jumped off the page and bit me.

My biggest gripe about homework is we're suppoed to help kids review for tests and stuff, yet we have no frame of reference, especially regarding the terminology they're using. If my sone has a math study guide for a test and does bring a text book home, there's a chance I don't understand the method they're using to answer the problem, and when they're trying to teach methodolgy and the approach to the problme they really need us to do this. This is an area where I think the teachers website resources are woefully under utilized. Let us know what we need to know to be a resource for our kids.